TBN Carucci : Bills' D-line experiencing disconnect with scheme

[Mace]

Well, no one mentioned it that I saw, so.

Ryan still might have something to prove as a head coach, but no one questions his defensive coaching prowess. It’s too early and would be way too presumptuous to conclude that his scheme, which has a sterling record for success from his days as a defensive coordinator in Baltimore and the previous six years he spent coaching the New York Jets, won’t work here. But the fact is his linemen are struggling, and at least some of it seems to stem from a lack of thorough understanding and/or comfort with what they are being asked to do and how they are being taught to do it.

http://bills.buffalonews.com/2015/10...t-with-scheme/

I know I quibbled with Yardrat about it a lot through Spring and Summer. Don't mind saying it doesn't seem to be turning out quite like I expected, so far.

Not sure what to make of it yet. Kyle Williams in a stand up role, outside (he wasn't in Pettine's variation), disturbs me though.

[BillsImpossible]

Well, no one mentioned it that I saw, so.



http://bills.buffalonews.com/2015/10...t-with-scheme/

I know I quibbled with Yardrat about it a lot through Spring and Summer. Don't mind saying it doesn't seem to be turning out quite like I expected, so far.

Not sure what to make of it yet. Kyle Williams in a stand up role, outside (he wasn't in Pettine's variation), disturbs me though.

Wow, that was a very interesting read. Disturbing to say the least.

After reading the article, I find myself asking the obvious question:

They're still trying to learn this defense?

I didn't know that Marcell Dareus was unhappy about, "not seeing eye-to-eye with how he was being coached," in training camp.

"We're still trying to get the puzzle."

No crap.

One part of me says, "Figure it out and put the puzzle together," and the other side says, "Simplify the defense and let them play football."

If Rex is truly a players coach, he should listen to what Dareus has to say about the defense.

Can't put a round peg in a square hole.

The pass defense has been playing great, but the Bills are ranked 29th in the league after 4 games.

Overall defense is ranked 22nd, and the run defense is ranked 3rd.

Is it a matter of the players figuring out Rex's complicated scheme, or Rex figuring out how to adjust the system to his players?

[Mace]

Wow, that was a very interesting read. Disturbing to say the least.

After reading the article, I find myself asking the obvious question:

They're still trying to learn this defense?

I didn't know that Marcell Dareus was unhappy about, "not seeing eye-to-eye with how he was being coached," in training camp.

"We're still trying to get the puzzle."

No crap.

One part of me says, "Figure it out and put the puzzle together," and the other side says, "Simplify the defense and let them play football."

If Rex is truly a players coach, he should listen to what Dareus has to say about the defense.

Can't put a round peg in a square hole.

The pass defense has been playing great, but the Bills are ranked 29th in the league after 4 games.

Overall defense is ranked 22nd, and the run defense is ranked 3rd.

Is it a matter of the players figuring out Rex's complicated scheme, or Rex figuring out how to adjust the system to his players?

Yeah, this is an old argument I had on another board, that I decisively lost, and don't mind admitting it, because I learned something. Good coaches, scheme for players, they don't force players into schemes. Pretty sure it was with Cookie if he's the same guy, and credit to him. It was absolutely correct.

Does it get better ? I don't know. Would be good if it clicks into place soon though.

[YardRat]

I do tend to quibble now and then, when I can fit it in between bickering and squabbling.

[Mace]

I do tend to quibble now and then, when I can fit it in between bickering and squabbling.

Well, what do you make of the article though, Mr. Frownyface Gloomypants. Weigh on in, you earned it.

[YardRat]

Well, what do you make of the article though, Mr. Frownyface Gloomypants. Weigh on in, you earned it.

It's still early in the season, I can wait a few more games (I think) to see if the defense can settle in and start being more productive. However, I would be lying if I said I was surprised by anything mentioned in the article.

[Skooby]

Excuses why they look like crap, how about lack of effort ?

[Mace]

It's still early in the season, I can wait a few more games (I think) to see if the defense can settle in and start being more productive. However, I would be lying if I said I was surprised by anything mentioned in the article.

Says you. You're wrong, no one asked you for your opinion. Why do you have to keep harping on it ? Let it go. You're on me like a cheap suit in the rain.

[BillsImpossible]

Excuses why they look like crap, how about lack of effort ?

You think the Bills front 3 are mailing it in?

Staying healthy for the more important parts of the season?

I hope you're right.

[gebobs]

Once again, the Bills are still in preseason mode in October.

[cookie G]

Yeah, this is an old argument I had on another board, that I decisively lost, and don't mind admitting it, because I learned something. Good coaches, scheme for players, they don't force players into schemes. Pretty sure it was with Cookie if he's the same guy, and credit to him. It was absolutely correct.

Does it get better ? I don't know. Would be good if it clicks into place soon though.

:waves to Mace:

I have a great deal of respect for Rex as a defensive mind, but...Keith Jackson used to say, "ya gotta let the big dogs hunt".

I think it was in OTA's when Rex had a mic, he made the comment, "this is the best D line I've had".

He just needs to learn how to use them. They don't need much help to get to in the backfield, they just need to be allowed to do it. Maybe Kyle needs to talk to him (in a proactive way) or at least show him tape from last year and say.."here's what we can do when we're not moving all over the place before the snap."

Take a tip from Perry Fewell. A few years ago, when the Giants still had a badass line, Fewell came over to the DL on the sideline and was going to make an adjustment. One of the, probably Tuck, waved him off and said, "we got this".

Or, as LT said to Parcells after told him his pass rushing plays weren't in the playbook, "well...someone better put it in, because its working".

Every coach can learn. Rex has something special with the DL. He just needs to figure out why.


So endeth the quotefest.

[swiper]

With many of the same players, so far it looks like the defensive coordinator quality goes like this: Schwartz > Pettine > Ryan

[DraftBoy]

Schemes take time to be installed and tweaked. That's what we're dealing with on both sides of the ball. There will be moments of brilliance and moments of bewilderment. We'll know more about how well the team is performing after Week 8. By then there shouldn't be anymore excuses about scheme installation and adjustments needing to be made.

[Mahdi]

IMO the Bills D will eventually grasp the system and play at a higher level.

That being said, the players the Bills have are not exactly suited to this scheme in terms of their body types.

Kyle and Marcell are more compact players whereas most 5 techniques are a bit longer. Mario is more suited for that job.

Just watching the coaches all 22 film though, I don't see them playing that much 3-4. Its usually a base 4-3 on early downs and then on 3rd down Rex goes to a more creative 3-4 look that involves 7-8 players at the LoS where some guys rush and others drop into coverage.

And if you look at our success on 3rd down defense we're 9th in the NFL. I think the Bills D players are just not thrilled about the fact that on 3rd down (the money down) they aren't being cut loose to get to the QB.

Rather they are getting teams off the field in other ways, forcing the QB to check down then coming up and making the tackle.

[Mike]

Schemes take time to be installed and tweaked. That's what we're dealing with on both sides of the ball. There will be moments of brilliance and moments of bewilderment. We'll know more about how well the team is performing after Week 8. By then there shouldn't be anymore excuses about scheme installation and adjustments needing to be made.

Do you think this new 3-4 scheme fits our d line better than the 4-3 wide 9?

[ghz in pittsburgh]

4 games in, there is enough reps for virtually every player that the coaching staff can get a read on. Next comes the adjustment stage where changes, coaching on specific area should occur and you should see probably biggest improvement on execution in a season. After 4 more games, they should be reaching a steady state where we can see indeed if they are what Rex said that they can be #1 in the league.

Preston Brown made defensive calls last year and I believe he's tasked to do that again this year. It's not a secret that Rex's D is a lot more complex compared to Schwarz's wide 9 last year, and the fact that the team is still dealing with defensive calls, assignment issues 4 games in backs that up. I know opponents' no huddle offense makes it more difficult but Brown needs to be sharp mentally in faster pace.

[sukie]

There has been chatter about Suh down here in Miami and why he might not be effective... One thing brought up (and I don't know what this all means) is that Miami runs a Gap 2 scheme and Suh succeeded in a Gap 1 in detroit. Is it possible the players are being asked to adapt to far to much on the D line?

[MillsapsBillsFan]

Do you think this new 3-4 scheme fits our d line better than the 4-3 wide 9?

No. I dont really consider Kyle or Dareus a true NT, so that hurts us in a 3-4. I also think that Mario and Hughes are much better suited to the responsibilities of a 4-3, Hughes is very athletic but I would much rather see him playing a true rush role instead of having to drop into coverage. Same goes for Mario, his responsibilities are a little different in a 3-4 and I think thats a reason for some of his production issues.

[MillsapsBillsFan]

There has been chatter about Suh down here in Miami and why he might not be effective... One thing brought up (and I don't know what this all means) is that Miami runs a Gap 2 scheme and Suh succeeded in a Gap 1 in detroit. Is it possible the players are being asked to adapt to far to much on the D line?

It just changes what the D line is responsible for. With a one gap system youre only responsible for one place (say for instance in between the center and left guard). The two gap system is different because you're more being asked to occupy space and let the LB's make plays, in that scheme you cant really rush the same way all the time because youre responsible for more.

[stuckincincy]

The pass defense has been playing great, but the Bills are ranked 29th in the league after 4 games.

Overall defense is ranked 22nd, and the run defense is ranked 3rd.

Is it a matter of the players figuring out Rex's complicated scheme, or Rex figuring out how to adjust the system to his players?

That 3rd ranking against the run combined with 29th against the pass is concerning, although admittedly, it's early and in the MIA game, the 'fins were trying to catch up and in the NE game, well that's how they roll.

So far, 192 pass attempts and 80 rush attempts by the opposition. I realize that stats can be interpreted various ways, but I'm not so pleased with that ratio. I don't know if it's just because of the small, 4 game sample, the game situations, or there is something opponents are detecting and may continue to exploit.

My impression of Ryan's style is to generally crowd the LOS, feigning or executing a blitz. That crowd certainly can clog a run game, but at a risk of inviting passes because that crowd is in less-favorable positions for pass defense.