Cam Newton & Luke Keachly

[Mike]

Illuminatus has already covered the coaching and GM angle of losing games extensively.

Do any of you Bozos think a competitive athlete would go along with purposely losing games? Not only does it go against their nature as players, but it could cost them down the road should they hit free agency.

My theory still holds up considering this thread. Very few actual fans of football. All we have are fans of winning so they can rub their pathetic peckers against the TV screen. It's not enough to just be competitive and play good ball.

You Yoyos actually think you win by losing...in some alternate universe.

This isn't Madden, boys. This is real life complete with flesh and blood players, coaches and GMs all trying to keep or get another chance at employment.

You don't get that if you lose on purpose.

So your saying the Sabres didn't tank and that the NHL is crazy for instituting a draft lottery to prevent future tanking?

[Mace]

There is None.
Generational talents are Rare... And when you can get one you do what you can to draft him.
This year's QBs draft class is good, nothing special.

To my surprise, Most posters feel the same way you do.
They would rather go 8-8 then 2-14 and draft a Generational Telent
Even if they could *Magically go back to 2012 and change the Bills's record and draft Luck they wouldn't do it because those extra few wins really meant something to them.

Im fine with that.
I prefer a Super Bowl but I guess that's just me.

Like Andrew Luck. Generational talent, feasting on his division and no one else. No Super Bowls, next year will be his 5th. Assuming they tanked, which I still don't see how they did because they were that bad without Manning, but assuming they did, to get a generational QB, well....the Indy fans would prefer Super Bowls too, and look ! They had the same record this year as we did, with a generational talent they might have tanked for.

You might prefer a Super Bowl but you'll have to revise your method of getting there because losing on purpose doesn't look like it helps any in the NFL.

[pmoon6]

So your saying the Sabres didn't tank and that the NHL is crazy for instituting a draft lottery to prevent future tanking?

I don't know because I only watch hockey during the playoffs.

However, we are not talking about the NHL, we are talking about the NFL.

At any rate, people that think you should lose just to improve draft position are losers themselves.

Video game playing wannabe athletes that never had the skill or the heart for competitive athletics.

[WagonCircler]

Luke Keachly looked like Brian Bosworth getting run over by Bo Jackson on that last TD.

[Mike]

I don't know because I only watch hockey during the playoffs.

However, we are not talking about the NHL, we are talking about the NFL.
> We are talking about strategy and the previous comments said 'NO GM or ownership or players would stand for a complete tank job... Yet we have the Sabres to prove you all wrong!

At any rate, people that think you should lose just to improve draft position are losers themselves.
> Great to know you HATE the Buffalo Sabres and the Pegulas who you think are 'LOSERS'
PS: ownership & GM fully supported the tank job

Video game playing wannabe athletes that never had the skill or the heart for competitive athletics.

For you to try to say it's OK for the Sabres to tank but not the Bills is absolutely disingenuous

[Mike]

Like Andrew Luck. Generational talent, feasting on his division and no one else. No Super Bowls, next year will be his 5th. Assuming they tanked, which I still don't see how they did because they were that bad without Manning, but assuming they did, to get a generational QB, well....the Indy fans would prefer Super Bowls too, and look ! They had the same record this year as we did, with a generational talent they might have tanked for.

You might prefer a Super Bowl but you'll have to revise your method of getting there because losing on purpose doesn't look like it helps any in the NFL.

In 2010 Season the Bills started the season 0-8 only to finish 4-4 and miss out on Cam an MVP QB

In 2011 Colts - the winningest team in NFL history over a decade- finished 2-14 and drafts Luck who is better than any QB the Bills have had.

Luck leads Colts to multiple playoff appearances and to AFC Championship Game while Cam takes Carolina to SB50.

In the meantime, the Bills have not made it to playoffs once.

So by your own standard, whose the Biggest loser of them all?

[pmoon6]

For you to try to say it's OK for the Sabres to tank but not the Bills is absolutely disingenuous

Like I said, I don't follow the NHL.

Is it a proven fact that Pegula and the Sabres intentionally tanked the season?

Or is it just speculation?

I will say that hockey is a very different sport. Aren't many hockey prospects sent down to the minors to get them ready for the next level?

At any rate, it's seems you are grasping at straws trying to prove your point.

[WagonCircler]

For you to try to say it's OK for the Sabres to tank but not the Bills is absolutely disingenuous

It's not disingenuous, it's math.

An NFL roster has 53 players. An NHL roster has 23 players--less than half.

An NFL tank would be a massive rebuild.

We're seeing just how long it takes to rebuild a team in the NHL.

The sheer numbers and odds of failure in the NFL make tanking unrealistic.

[WagonCircler]

Is it a proven fact that Pegula and the Sabres intentionally tanked the season?.

It depends on how you define "tank".

Did the players themselves take a dive like Jake LaMotta? Absolutely not.

Did Tim Murray intentionally put out an inferior team, while building a bank of assets? Absolutely.

[Mike]

Like I said, I don't follow the NHL.

Is it a proven fact that Pegula and the Sabres intentionally tanked the season?
> For all intense & purposes the Sabres are guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

Or is it just speculation?
> Not speculation. If it went to court Sabres would get convicted of tanking 'cheating'. It's beyond a reasonable doubt which is why the NHL changes draft rules.

I will say that hockey is a very different sport.
> Your whole argument was that 'Coaches, Players & GM' would never tank on purpose because they would be jeopardizing their careers. You argues, 'what player or coach would sign up for this'? ...
By your logic, why would NHL players/coaches do this?

Aren't many hockey prospects sent down to the minors to get them ready for the next level?
> Great players aren't ever sent down. Even in a losing season, a player like Jack Eichel sells seats and are clearly NHL caliber. Difference makers don't get sent down.

At any rate, it's seems you are grasping at straws trying to prove your point.
> My point is already proven. Sabres are getting better as a direct result of tanking. Penguins did the same thing to get Super Mario and it's also been the case in Basketball where the 76ers intentionally tanked to get a generational talent.
As a result of tanking the Sabres got a Generational Talent last draft, Penguins won Stantley Cups and those are just a few examples off the top of my head.

[Mike]

It depends on how you define "tank".

Did the players themselves take a dive like Jake LaMotta? Absolutely not.

Did Tim Murray intentionally put out an inferior team, while building a bank of assets? Absolutely.

See and that the whole Point!

You don't have to get player or coach buy in to tank.
The ONLY thing that needs to happen is for the GM or ownership to do what Tim Murray did.

If you look at the Colts Polian, he did some very similar things to land Luck, unfortunately for Polian his pics over the previous decade sucked so bad (making Colts a one trick/Manning Pony) that he was let go of.

76ers also did it... Quite openly as well

So did the Penguins to get Lemuix. They intentionally called up a goalie from the minors who had a GAA of 6.0!
The other bad team that year.... NJ Devils missed out on the Lemuix sweepstakes because of 1 victory against the Penguins in the last week of the season.

[feldspar]

It depends on how you define "tank".

Did the players themselves take a dive like Jake LaMotta? Absolutely not.

Did Tim Murray intentionally put out an inferior team, while building a bank of assets? Absolutely.

Right. I think that management deliberately set up the team to fail, but the players and coaches did not lose games on purpose. Nobody would intentionally do that...destroy their reputations to large degree only so their team can get a player that they won't be around to enjoy anyway. Meanwhile, they go somewhere else (hopefully) and make less money.

[WagonCircler]

See and that the whole Point!

You don't have to get player or coach buy in to tank.
The ONLY thing that needs to happen is for the GM or ownership to do what Tim Murray did.

If you look at the Colts Polian, he did some very similar things to land Luck, unfortunately for Polian his pics over the previous decade sucked so bad (making Colts a one trick/Manning Pony) that he was let go of.

76ers also did it... Quite openly as well

So did the Penguins to get Lemuix. They intentionally called up a goalie from the minors who had a GAA of 6.0!
The other bad team that year.... NJ Devils missed out on the Lemuix sweepstakes because of 1 victory against the Penguins in the last week of the season.

No, the whole point is that there are far, far more moving pieces involved in an NFL rebuild. It's infinitely more complex, and the Bills organization can barely tie their own shoes, much less executer a rebuild from scratch.

[Mr. Pink]

Illuminatus has already covered the coaching and GM angle of losing games extensively.

Do any of you Bozos think a competitive athlete would go along with purposely losing games? Not only does it go against their nature as players, but it could cost them down the road should they hit free agency.

My theory still holds up considering this thread. Very few actual fans of football. All we have are fans of winning so they can rub their pathetic peckers against the TV screen. It's not enough to just be competitive and play good ball.

You Yoyos actually think you win by losing...in some alternate universe.

This isn't Madden, boys. This is real life complete with flesh and blood players, coaches and GMs all trying to keep or get another chance at employment.

You don't get that if you lose on purpose.

So you win overall by winning a few meaningless football games to get you from 4-12 to 6-10?

Or you win by going 8-8 and staying home from the playoffs for a 16th straight year?

The Buffalo Bills are the king of winning meaningless football games, where has it gotten them?

Oh that's right it's not whether you win or lose, it's how you play the game! Professional sports isn't about entertainment and winning championships, it's about effort and trying, right?

FYI there are plenty of athletes in todays professional sports that care more about the paycheck than anything else. As long as they're getting paid or overpaid they could give a crap where they end up. Hell, guys like T.O. and Mario came here because the Bills overpaid them to do it. Both of those guys were well established around the league and both could have gone elsewhere for less money and the chance to win. Not to mention the guys like Dareus and Hughes who chose to resign here for big money when they could have entered FA and gone elsewhere where they might have been to win.

It is cute that some people still think that the majority of players are motivated by the competition and winning though.

[pmoon6]

So you win overall by winning a few meaningless football games to get you from 4-12 to 6-10?

Or you win by going 8-8 and staying home from the playoffs for a 16th straight year?

The Buffalo Bills are the king of winning meaningless football games, where has it gotten them?

Oh that's right it's not whether you win or lose, it's how you play the game! Professional sports isn't about entertainment and winning championships, it's about effort and trying, right?

FYI there are plenty of athletes in todays professional sports that care more about the paycheck than anything else. As long as they're getting paid or overpaid they could give a crap where they end up. Hell, guys like T.O. and Mario came here because the Bills overpaid them to do it. Both of those guys were well established around the league and both could have gone elsewhere for less money and the chance to win. Not to mention the guys like Dareus and Hughes who chose to resign here for big money when they could have entered FA and gone elsewhere where they might have been to win.

It is cute that some people still think that the majority of players are motivated by the competition and winning though.

I expected you to agree with Mikey.

If you look up "Loser" in the dictionary, your picture is right there.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

So what exactly would you have done differently this season? By the end of the year we had called up Gillislee, O Leary, Salas, Dez Lewis, Steward, Tarpley, Ekempali, Mario Butler, and Bacarri Rambo and were giving them meaningful snaps.

Be specific here, I want to know what moves you'd have made and when.