Originally Posted by stuckincincy
OSU runs a spread offense? Have you ever watched them play?
Yes I am an alumn and its a spread-option offense...have you ever watched them play? Please email Urban and tell him he doesn't run a spread offense just for the laughter factor
Last edited by SaviorEdwards; 05-01-2016 at 11:46 PM.
"The best things to happen to Michigan Football have come from Ohio." - Chris Spielman
Yes I am an alumn and its a spread-option offense...have you ever watched them play? Please email Urban and tell him he doesn't run a spread offense just for the laughter factor
Er, let the scales fall from your eyes...
http://www.landgrantholyland.com/201...ffense-pew-pew
Fiat justitia ruat caelum. Noli timere. Laus Deo.
LOL
I like the 1st throw he made in this video. ( :54 secs. ) Between 2 defenders 20+ yards deep .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjL1gGz1sC0
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...elly/21207573/ Let the scales fall from your eyes...to say Urban Meyer doesn't run the spread is idiotic. He may have elements of other offenses, but Urban Meyer is the spread-option. You should pick up a new sport to follow this one has passed you by. The guy went out to Eugene to exchange some ideas about this offense, but you probably don't think Oregon runs the spread either. You have literally no idea what you're talking about. Again, please email Urban and tell him he doesn't run the S P R E A D offense.
Last edited by SaviorEdwards; 05-02-2016 at 07:57 AM.
First there was Machine Gun Kelly, now there is 12 Guage.
Mace (05-02-2016)
Did people chuck things at you when you were in school?
Horrendous pick and here's why
It has little to do with Cardale and a lot to do with Whaley.
Whaley loves to hang on to his picks even when they have shown to be a failure. (see Manuel EJ). If Taylor fails to progress and we find ourselves looking for a QB next season you can bet your asses Dougie won't be drafting one. Not in the next 2 (possibly 3) drafts as he tries to show us Cardale is the real deal. All those posters saying its ok because its only a 4th for a boom or bust guy fail to see the long term implications this is going to have on our drafting. Whaley will try to push Cardale down whoever is our coach's throat to the bloody end. If I knew Whaley was a man that admits his errors and corrects them ASAP I wouldn't be concerned about wasting a stupid comp. 4th. Just you watch. Whaley gonna Whaley
Now on to Jones. If Reggie Ragland or Aaron Williams walk into OBD tomorrow and toss a football 70 yards in the air they won't be far behind Cardale. That's how bad this kid is. He's a just a big dude with a big arm. This whole "upside" thing is bull****. He wasn't even a full time starter, not a team captain. He's not accurate, he can't read defenses. He's just a big arm. That's it. Sadly that is all that Whaley needs to get his rocks off. A big guy with a strong arm. **** all the other far more important things that make a QB like being able to read a defense, go through progressions or you know be accurate. If you can throw the ball hard you get Doug hard.
Whaley wouldn't know a QB if one fell on his lap.
If Taylor fails, there is no way Whaley goes next year with Cardale as our #1 option. No way.
Wait and see my man.
I will bet cervezas on it.
Watched his clip. One thing I noticed is that all of the long throws, the receiver has had to slow down and grab it. Jones never led the receiver. Isn't he supposed to have a monster arm? Anyway, not worried - he's a 4th, expectations are low, and I'm ok with the pick. Just was surprised to see this.
Vic, he would have done the same with whatever QB they would have taken, and you have the off chance he's less married to a 4th round pick than a 1,2 or 3, and I still don't think any of the earlier ones are all that good either.
Have no issue agreeing that I'm not convinced Whaley has a clue about QBs.
If you're saying he shouldn't have taken one at all, I might waffle, because you might be right, if he HAD to take one it didn't matter (imho), may as well go for highest "possible" upside as late as possible or you wouldn't have gotten Lawson, Ragland and Washington. Now I'm not a big fan of Washington atm, but I'm all in on him if you give me the option of taking a qb there instead.
If he's that terrible, there are more maybe QB's next year for Whaley to probably be in charge of picking with his crapshoot eye. If you look at Ryan who also isn't going anywhere, he's not so sharp with QB's either.
Hope for the best and spare yourself the pain until something else happens at this point. No helping it.
Last edited by Mace; 05-03-2016 at 07:31 PM.
Mace wrote:
> if he HAD to take one it didn't matter (imho), may as well go for highest "possible" upside as late as possible or you wouldn't have gotten Lawson, Ragland and Washington.
Let's say for the sake of argument that Whaley had decided to take a QB, and that he didn't want to use any of his first three picks on one. Fine. Kevin Hogan was still available when Whaley took Cardale Jones. Nothing about Hogan's physical tools will prevent him from being a successful starting QB. If he turns out to not deserve a starting position, it will be because of accuracy issues, or lack of information processing speed, or something else along those lines. On the other hand, he'd demonstrated good accuracy at Stanford; as well as reasonably good information processing speed while running Stanford's pro-style offense.
Obviously, Hogan (or any other QB the Bills could have drafted in the fourth) is much more likely to be a career-long backup than a franchise QB. But even if he only represents a one in ten or one in twenty chance of becoming a top-15 starting QB, that relatively low chance is still well worth taking. You draft enough guys like that, eventually one will work out.
Imagine that ten or twenty years from now, scientists create a pill which could give anyone great athletic ability. With a pill like that, you could pick names at random out of a phone book, give the people you'd selected that pill, and have them try out for NFL quarterback positions. All these people would have great physical tools (because of the pill), and none would have done anything at all to demonstrate throwing accuracy or information processing speed. They'd all be Cardale Jones-type picks, and each would have about the same probability of becoming successful NFL quarterbacks Cardale Jones has.
E.J. Manuel and Cardale Jones are both symptoms of the problem. The problem is that Doug Whaley can't evaluate QB talent.
I took one of those pills once and ended up in a doctor's office after four hours.
YardRat Wall of Fame
#56 DARRYL TALLEY #29 DERRICK BURROUGHS#22 FRED JACKSON #95 KYLE WILLIAMS
Mace (05-03-2016),sahlensguy (05-03-2016)
We already said that. Unless you have a different magic pill that suddenly makes him smarter and goes back a few years, not a crap changes. Since I can't remove Doug Whaley from his position, not owning the team and such, I'm as stuck with his choices as anyone, and if he's so bad, why would you think it would matter who he took where, because he's not worth a crap with qb's anyway ?
So you think windup Hogan is better than misfiring Jones. Good for you. Windup Tebow was a 66.4% passer in college yeah ? Pro style Luck is still .500 outside his division, yeah ?
Nothing new, we still have Manuel and Jones and it doesn't have anything to do with magic pills. Do your homework and get back to me when Hogan lights up the league never. People wanted a QB, we took one, get back to me when the other ones start dominating anything.
- - - Updated - - -
Drink a quart of milk and have a slice of bread first, you can make it to 5 hrs.
Mace wrote:
> Since I can't remove Doug Whaley from his position, not owning the team and such, I'm as stuck with his choices as anyone.
Same here. The Bills haven't had a quarterback since Kelly. (Unless you count brief spurts, such as Flutie's stint with the team or Bledsoe's first eight games as a Bill.) Unless Tyrod is the long-term answer, Whaley is highly unlikely to be the one to solve that problem. Hopefully his eventual replacement will be better at QB talent evaluation than he is.
> and if he's so bad, why would you think it would matter who he took where, because he's not worth a crap with qb's anyway ?
My evidence for him being bad at evaluating QBs is the fact that his QB choices have followed a consistent pattern: great physical traits, not much in the way of demonstrated information processing speed or accuracy. If he were to begin selecting quarterbacks which don't fit that pattern, it would suggest that he's better at evaluating QB talent than I'd initially given him credit for. I would then become willing to reexamine my opinion of Whaley's ability to evaluate QB talent. But as long as he continues to act as I expect him to (by picking Cardale Jones-type quarterbacks), there is no reason for me to reexamine my opinion. On the contrary.
> So you think windup Hogan is better than misfiring Jones.
Yes. Absolutely. Odds are heavily against either quarterback amounting to much of anything in the NFL. But I'd rather have a 10% chance of something (Hogan) than a 0% chance (Jones).
> Good for you. Windup Tebow was a 66.4% passer in college yeah ?
I've never been optimistic about Tim Tebow's chances of success. When Denver drafted him, I thought, They just wasted a first round draft pick. Better them than us. If I felt that Hogan had Tebow's same limitations (in terms of limited accuracy and information processing speed) I wouldn't have suggested drafting Hogan either.
> Pro style Luck is still .500 outside his division, yeah ?
Andrew Luck seemed to come into his own in 2014, his third year in the league. His yards per attempt and QB rating were dramatically higher than they'd been his first two years. Both stats were comparable to what you'd expect from a guy like Tom Brady. But then, in his fourth year, he seemingly regressed. He played in only seven games, and his yards per attempt and passer rating were very underwhelming.
Maybe Andrew Luck was a one year wonder, with 2014 having been his one good year. It's also possible he'll have ten more seasons every bit as good as 2014 had been. This early in his career it's impossible to say which of those two possibilities is accurate.
> People wanted a QB, we took one, get back to me when the other ones start dominating anything.
There are times when you're better off taking no QB than you are taking the wrong one. The wrong QB fills the spot which could have gone to some other, more deserving prospect. For example: TD tried to trade up for Roethlisberger. But he decided Houston's asking price was too high. So he went with his plan B (Losman). The next year (2005), Aaron Rodgers was drafted by the Packers instead of the Bills. Why? Partially because we'd traded away our first round pick in 2005 to get Losman. TD didn't attempt to trade into the first round of 2005, because he thought he was "all set" at quarterback because of Losman. Losman, incidentally, was yet another quarterback with great physical tools, who'd never demonstrated much in the way of accuracy or information processing speed while in college. The Bills' organizational inability to evaluate QBs (and hence their preference for QBs of this type) predates Whaley's arrival by many years.
The same thing happened when the Bills took E.J. Manuel. Derek Carr is playing at a franchise level for Oakland. He was drafted a year after Manuel. Whaley felt the Bills were "all set" at quarterback because of Manuel--a thought which presumably played a key role in his decision not to draft Carr.
I want the Bills to be run by competent people. That means that a) the Bills should place far more emphasis on the QB position--the most important position in professional sports--than they do on RBs or DBs. b) Their evaluations of QBs should be a little more sophisticated than, "Ooh look! He has shiny physical tools! Let's draft him!" Both a) and b) are the absolute, bare minimum you'd expect from any competently run NFL franchise. Anything less than both those things is a strong indication of deep organizational flaws.
Last edited by Arm of Harm; 05-03-2016 at 10:31 PM.
There was this QB once, he was drafted in the 3rd round. Nobody thought much of him and rode the pine for a year and three quarters until he played. He had time to learn the offense and adapt his skills to the pro game. His name was Joe Montana.
There are numerous other examples as well as examples of players that were thrown in the fire too early and never developed. In those cases we can never know if they were brought along slowly if they would have been more successful.
Just the idea of saying a raw player can't do it is ridiculous and shows the asinine attitude of the modern football fan. People that have never competed on the gridiron and wouldn't know a shoulder pad from a bedpan.
Cardale Jones may indeed not make it in the NFL, but it was a fourth round pick. Not lot of risk and the reward could be high because of his tools. (Looks durable and has a live arm). At the end of the day, crying about draft picks before they have a year or two in a system shows lack of understanding let alone before their first training camp.
Of course, the Fan's need to be correct and then brag about it on social media supercedes anything else.
Last edited by pmoon6; 05-04-2016 at 07:28 AM.
Joe Montana was a QB.
Cardale Jones is an athlete trying to throw the ball.
Very distinct difference there.
Victor7 (05-04-2016)
Maybe so. the point is it's too early to tell. Maybe Whaley plans to turn him into a TE.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote