He freaking better.
No
Jones is a long term project...
Mace (05-11-2016)
Disagree. Much rather have Manuel be ready to go if needed. Jones is very likely a wasted pick but any preseason time he gets should be in garbage time. People don't want to hear this but Manuel is on the exact kind of curve Jones would be on. Both were projects. You might actually be close to finally getting a dividend, even if it's one or two wins, out of Manuel. It completely escapes me why Jones is a better option to win games now. He isn't. You throw out one horrific quarter last year from Manuel against Jacksonville and he was a decent backup. He may well be a better backup this year based on a slow and steady progression for a guy that was a project. A 1st round project but a project. He's done after this year? Ok. So we should miss out on the playoffs for the hundredth straight year so we can give extra time to Busty Jones? Nope.
trapezeus (05-11-2016),Yasgur's Farm (05-12-2016)
Yasgur's Farm (05-12-2016)
BillsImpossible (05-29-2016)
I agree that Manuel shouldn't have been drafted before the fourth round. I personally would have been very leery of taking him even in the fourth.
As for Cardale Jones, he's 6'5", 250 pounds. He has a big frame, which seems like it could accommodate more muscle mass than he already has. He's athletic. The Bills need a right tackle much more than they need another physically gifted QB with no pocket passing skills. So why not try him out at RT?
As a college QB, Aaron Rodgers had been accurate, and had shown very good information processing speed. He was widely described as "polished." A number of draft publications projected him to go first overall. However, he fell to the 20s on draft day. That would have been an excellent opportunity for the Bills to benefit, had TD not deluded himself into thinking he was "all set" at QB with J.P. Losman. (I realize we'd traded away our first round pick in 2005 as part of the Losman deal. But I'm sure we could have gotten back into the first round of 2005 if we were willing to pay the requested price.)
Because of his accomplishments as a college pocket passer (accuracy and fast decision-making) Rodgers had earned the development time the Packers gave him. Cardale Jones didn't demonstrate those traits in college, and hasn't earned development time with the Bills or any other NFL team. (Any more than Manuel had earned that development time based on his play at FSU.)
The problem with giving development time to the wrong guy is that it crowds out some other player who could have been the right guy. JP Losman's presence on the roster prevented the Bills from taking Aaron Rodgers. Manuel's presence on the roster prevented the Bills from drafting Derek Carr. The Cardale Jones bust may not be as costly as that. But it's far from encouraging to know that the Bills aren't in a position to give development time to a QB who's earned it, because they've already committed that development time to backup QBs who haven't earned it.
Mouldsie (06-08-2016)
I doubt the drafting of Jones prevents the Bills draft another one next year, especially is a 1st round grade one is available.
If a team invest as much as the Bills did in Losman, then you can understand why they didn't go another one in the next few years.
By the way the Bills did have a 1st round pick because of Peerless trade, but they passed Rogers of course. Now regarding Rogers fall in draft, there was concerns about his mechanics flaw because of his college coach wanted short quick passes so Rogers mechanics did not mesh with then-NFL style. He always had that quick mental processing ability. Also he was considered "cocky" in attitude.
I've always maintained I'd take a strong mentally capable QB than a strong arm QB any day anywhere. Unfortunately from Nix to Whaley, OBD seems to place strong arm as #1 criteria to play in Orchard Park. By that standard, they'll never draft a Tom Brady. They are looking to find another Cam Newton
Last edited by ghz in pittsburgh; 05-12-2016 at 02:45 PM.
I'm fine if Jones doesn't see any time at all on the field in a regular season game this year, maybe even next. Start from scratch and teach the kid the game from the bottom up and see how he develops. It's only one roster spot, and with the proper time and effort and good coaching at least he'll get an opportunity over the next couple of seasons to 'prove' he's getting 'it' and could develop into something somewhere down the road. My biggest fear is the team doesn't have the coaching on staff right now to succeed in grooming a QB. Also, I certainly wouldn't let his presence stop me from drafting another QB in the future, and would keep on drafting them if one is there that they like.
YardRat Wall of Fame
#56 DARRYL TALLEY #29 DERRICK BURROUGHS#22 FRED JACKSON #95 KYLE WILLIAMS
Good post.
As you will recall, the Bills traded away their own first round pick in the 2003 draft for Drew Bledsoe. However, they gained a first round pick in the 2003 draft due to having traded away Peerless Price. They used the Peerless Price first round pick on Willis McGahee.
They had two first round picks in the 2004 draft (Lee Evans and Losman). No first round picks for the 2005 draft. Their second round pick of 2005 was used on Roscoe Parrish.
I have no problem with a QB being cocky, as long as he has the work ethic, passion, and toughness to back it up. Jim Kelly type cockiness is perfectly acceptable. But you don't want a guy who thinks he's so special he doesn't need to put in the work (like Johnny Manziel). To the extent Rodgers was cocky, it was Kelly-style cockiness, not Manziel-style cocky laziness.
I completely agree with your statement that you're better off having a mentally strong QB than someone with a very strong arm. Joe Montana lasted until the third round, because of questions about his arm strength. Tom Brady is another example of a guy whose mental tools were significantly better than his physical tools.
If you want an example of how a mentally gifted, physically so-so QB could do while playing in Orchard Park, you need look no further than Tom Brady's away games against the Bills. Considering the Patriots' near-total domination over the Bills ever since Tom Brady first took the field, I think it's safe to say that a QB in that category could do okay playing games in Orchard Park.
Last edited by Arm of Harm; 05-12-2016 at 04:11 PM.
ghz in pittsburgh (05-13-2016)
Figster (05-12-2016)
swiper (05-14-2016)
So far this year has just been more proof that Whaley can do defense, but is terrible at offense, especially quarterbacks. His penchant for athletic (read glorified running backs) players who want to throw the ball just prove the fact that he learned nothing from the failed career Michael Vick.
I don't know about you, but I want a QB in the mold of Ben Roethlisberger, not Vick. One of the funnier posts recently was the post that claimed Cardale Jones was similar Roethlisberger. That's completely laughable. Just because the player is big doesn't mean he's similar to Roethlisberger. Roeslisberger can read a defense and complete a pass downfield. Jones will never be that.
Last edited by swiper; 05-14-2016 at 04:29 AM.
I don't know about that. I think Whaley has done a very good job as GM so far getting the best QBs that realistically were available to be had. It's not like there was a wealth of them. He nabbed Kyle Orton, who turned around and retired, and then Tyrod Taylor. Of course that's not ideal, but I don't know who else he realistically could have gotten that would do too much better.
Even the EJ pick wasn't that bad if you consider the Bills set out deliberately to get the best QB in the draft...they very well might have done just that. I know that's not saying much, but the fact remains. At least they traded down. Whaley wasn't the GM then either, but for the sake of argument, we'll call EJ his pick. The idea was never to start EJ right away in the first place. The idea was to develop him behind Kolb, if you remember. Then Kolb got hurt.
We'll see what happens this year with Tyrod Taylor, but QBs don't exactly grow on trees, which is kinda the point.
Btw, I'm not a fan of the Jones pick at all either.
Last edited by feldspar; 05-14-2016 at 04:51 AM.
swiper (05-14-2016)