Will Cardale Jones Outperform EJ Manual In Training Camp?

[Bill Cody]

Re: Will Cardale Jones Outperform EJ Manual In Training Camp?

I have a feeling Tyrod gets hurt in the first half of the season and Manuel comes in to lead the Bills to the playoffs. Go ahead, call me crazy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7fjDS0jKiE

[Mace]

Re: Will Cardale Jones Outperform EJ Manual In Training Camp?

I have a feeling Tyrod gets hurt in the first half of the season and Manuel comes in to lead the Bills to the playoffs. Go ahead, call me crazy.

Ok. You crazy, maaaaaaaan.

[Night Train]

Re: Will Cardale Jones Outperform EJ Manual In Training Camp?

I have a feeling Tyrod gets hurt in the first half of the season and Manuel comes in to lead the Bills to the playoffs. Go ahead, call me crazy.

http://s1.totalprosports.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/download-49.png

[Arm of Harm]

Re: Will Cardale Jones Outperform EJ Manual In Training Camp?

my take is that we have a roster than could with 9-11 games. you put in the rex will bungle 2 games we are looking at 7-9 wins realistically. and to me that all depends on TT being the QB the whole time. if he has a sophomore slump or goes out with injury, our back ups are essentially conceding the season. and that might be enough to be done with rex.

I would say that I think cardale is drafted where Ej should have been drafted. and he's not going to see the field. that lack of pressure and ability to hone his game without the spotlight, may be the thing that helps him develop. I'm not against having someone who needs to develop and to know that he can't step on the field for a single game his rookie season when he needs a lot of work is a good thing. it also costs us nothing. I have no issues with having cardale on the roster at this point.

I agree that Manuel shouldn't have been drafted before the fourth round. I personally would have been very leery of taking him even in the fourth.

As for Cardale Jones, he's 6'5", 250 pounds. He has a big frame, which seems like it could accommodate more muscle mass than he already has. He's athletic. The Bills need a right tackle much more than they need another physically gifted QB with no pocket passing skills. So why not try him out at RT?

[Arm of Harm]

Re: Will Cardale Jones Outperform EJ Manual In Training Camp?

I know a lot of people who are Ohio State fans. None of them think much of Jones as QB. However, when I talk to a buddy who works for a local agency, he has a different perspective. Basically most, if not all current college QBs are on skill sets not directly translate-able to NFL QBs. So it is a projection. Jones is not really a QB running Meyer type of offense. Hence his early status in OSU and the up and downs since then. There are quite a lot of people agree that he might be better suited to play under the center like in NFL but never afforded a chance to in college. It could be a long road to develop and most NFL coaches and front office don't have that kind of time like they used to have to develop him. Aaron Rogers was that close to hit FA with Favre in front of him and he righted himself in basically one and half years sitting on the bench (a HOF developing pace). What if Jones takes 3 years? Then he's on the crusp of FA and the drafting team must base very limited sample size to decide whether to put down big investment.

Bottom line, in his opinion, teams don't have the QBs (like Jones) best interest in mind. they would rather throw the players out early to sink or swim. If they survive, throw money at them. If they sink, draft the next one.

As a college QB, Aaron Rodgers had been accurate, and had shown very good information processing speed. He was widely described as "polished." A number of draft publications projected him to go first overall. However, he fell to the 20s on draft day. That would have been an excellent opportunity for the Bills to benefit, had TD not deluded himself into thinking he was "all set" at QB with J.P. Losman. (I realize we'd traded away our first round pick in 2005 as part of the Losman deal. But I'm sure we could have gotten back into the first round of 2005 if we were willing to pay the requested price.)

Because of his accomplishments as a college pocket passer (accuracy and fast decision-making) Rodgers had earned the development time the Packers gave him. Cardale Jones didn't demonstrate those traits in college, and hasn't earned development time with the Bills or any other NFL team. (Any more than Manuel had earned that development time based on his play at FSU.)

The problem with giving development time to the wrong guy is that it crowds out some other player who could have been the right guy. JP Losman's presence on the roster prevented the Bills from taking Aaron Rodgers. Manuel's presence on the roster prevented the Bills from drafting Derek Carr. The Cardale Jones bust may not be as costly as that. But it's far from encouraging to know that the Bills aren't in a position to give development time to a QB who's earned it, because they've already committed that development time to backup QBs who haven't earned it.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Re: Will Cardale Jones Outperform EJ Manual In Training Camp?

I doubt the drafting of Jones prevents the Bills draft another one next year, especially is a 1st round grade one is available.

If a team invest as much as the Bills did in Losman, then you can understand why they didn't go another one in the next few years.

By the way the Bills did have a 1st round pick because of Peerless trade, but they passed Rogers of course. Now regarding Rogers fall in draft, there was concerns about his mechanics flaw because of his college coach wanted short quick passes so Rogers mechanics did not mesh with then-NFL style. He always had that quick mental processing ability. Also he was considered "cocky" in attitude.

I've always maintained I'd take a strong mentally capable QB than a strong arm QB any day anywhere. Unfortunately from Nix to Whaley, OBD seems to place strong arm as #1 criteria to play in Orchard Park. By that standard, they'll never draft a Tom Brady. They are looking to find another Cam Newton

[YardRat]

Re: Will Cardale Jones Outperform EJ Manual In Training Camp?

I'm fine if Jones doesn't see any time at all on the field in a regular season game this year, maybe even next. Start from scratch and teach the kid the game from the bottom up and see how he develops. It's only one roster spot, and with the proper time and effort and good coaching at least he'll get an opportunity over the next couple of seasons to 'prove' he's getting 'it' and could develop into something somewhere down the road. My biggest fear is the team doesn't have the coaching on staff right now to succeed in grooming a QB. Also, I certainly wouldn't let his presence stop me from drafting another QB in the future, and would keep on drafting them if one is there that they like.

[Figster]

Re: Will Cardale Jones Outperform EJ Manual In Training Camp?

I'm fine if Jones doesn't see any time at all on the field in a regular season game this year, maybe even next. Start from scratch and teach the kid the game from the bottom up and see how he develops. It's only one roster spot, and with the proper time and effort and good coaching at least he'll get an opportunity over the next couple of seasons to 'prove' he's getting 'it' and could develop into something somewhere down the road. My biggest fear is the team doesn't have the coaching on staff right now to succeed in grooming a QB. Also, I certainly wouldn't let his presence stop me from drafting another QB in the future, and would keep on drafting them if one is there that they like.

G Roman O would be very Jones friendly IMO and I also think Tyrod Taylor makes a great role model to follow.

[Arm of Harm]

Re: Will Cardale Jones Outperform EJ Manual In Training Camp?

I doubt the drafting of Jones prevents the Bills draft another one next year, especially is a 1st round grade one is available.

If a team invest as much as the Bills did in Losman, then you can understand why they didn't go another one in the next few years.

By the way the Bills did have a 1st round pick because of Peerless trade, but they passed Rogers of course. Now regarding Rogers fall in draft, there was concerns about his mechanics flaw because of his college coach wanted short quick passes so Rogers mechanics did not mesh with then-NFL style. He always had that quick mental processing ability. Also he was considered "cocky" in attitude.

I've always maintained I'd take a strong mentally capable QB than a strong arm QB any day anywhere. Unfortunately from Nix to Whaley, OBD seems to place strong arm as #1 criteria to play in Orchard Park. By that standard, they'll never draft a Tom Brady. They are looking to find another Cam Newton

Good post.

As you will recall, the Bills traded away their own first round pick in the 2003 draft for Drew Bledsoe. However, they gained a first round pick in the 2003 draft due to having traded away Peerless Price. They used the Peerless Price first round pick on Willis McGahee.

They had two first round picks in the 2004 draft (Lee Evans and Losman). No first round picks for the 2005 draft. Their second round pick of 2005 was used on Roscoe Parrish.

I have no problem with a QB being cocky, as long as he has the work ethic, passion, and toughness to back it up. Jim Kelly type cockiness is perfectly acceptable. But you don't want a guy who thinks he's so special he doesn't need to put in the work (like Johnny Manziel). To the extent Rodgers was cocky, it was Kelly-style cockiness, not Manziel-style cocky laziness.

I completely agree with your statement that you're better off having a mentally strong QB than someone with a very strong arm. Joe Montana lasted until the third round, because of questions about his arm strength. Tom Brady is another example of a guy whose mental tools were significantly better than his physical tools.

If you want an example of how a mentally gifted, physically so-so QB could do while playing in Orchard Park, you need look no further than Tom Brady's away games against the Bills. Considering the Patriots' near-total domination over the Bills ever since Tom Brady first took the field, I think it's safe to say that a QB in that category could do okay playing games in Orchard Park.

[YardRat]

Re: Will Cardale Jones Outperform EJ Manual In Training Camp?

G Roman O would be very Jones friendly IMO and I also think Tyrod Taylor makes a great role model to follow.

Maybe, but I was referring to the guys that are actually going to be spending time teaching the player, like QB coach Lee and SOA Palmer.

[Mace]

Re: Will Cardale Jones Outperform EJ Manual In Training Camp?

Maybe, but I was referring to the guys that are actually going to be spending time teaching the player, like QB coach Lee and SOA Palmer.

That's sort of the problem. Lee, Palmer and don't forget Lal. Roman still only and ever does running game related.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Re: Will Cardale Jones Outperform EJ Manual In Training Camp?

Good post.

As you will recall, the Bills traded away their own first round pick in the 2003 draft for Drew Bledsoe. However, they gained a first round pick in the 2003 draft due to having traded away Peerless Price. They used the Peerless Price first round pick on Willis McGahee.

They had two first round picks in the 2004 draft (Lee Evans and Losman). No first round picks for the 2005 draft. Their second round pick of 2005 was used on Roscoe Parrish.

I have no problem with a QB being cocky, as long as he has the work ethic, passion, and toughness to back it up. Jim Kelly type cockiness is perfectly acceptable. But you don't want a guy who thinks he's so special he doesn't need to put in the work (like Johnny Manziel). To the extent Rodgers was cocky, it was Kelly-style cockiness, not Manziel-style cocky laziness.

I completely agree with your statement that you're better off having a mentally strong QB than someone with a very strong arm. Joe Montana lasted until the third round, because of questions about his arm strength. Tom Brady is another example of a guy whose mental tools were significantly better than his physical tools.

If you want an example of how a mentally gifted, physically so-so QB could do while playing in Orchard Park, you need look no further than Tom Brady's away games against the Bills. Considering the Patriots' near-total domination over the Bills ever since Tom Brady first took the field, I think it's safe to say that a QB in that category could do okay playing games in Orchard Park.

Losman is a very cocky guy. Not sure that traits is something people are looking for

[sudzy]

Re: Will Cardale Jones Outperform EJ Manual In Training Camp?

Agreed. Bring him along slowly. Then cut him.

Label him the "QB of the future", refuse to draft another one, cut him when you can't sell him anymore, then wash, rinse, repeat.

[swiper]

Re: Will Cardale Jones Outperform EJ Manual In Training Camp?

Label him the "QB of the future", refuse to draft another one, cut him when you can't sell him anymore, then wash, rinse, repeat.

So far this year has just been more proof that Whaley can do defense, but is terrible at offense, especially quarterbacks. His penchant for athletic (read glorified running backs) players who want to throw the ball just prove the fact that he learned nothing from the failed career Michael Vick.

I don't know about you, but I want a QB in the mold of Ben Roethlisberger, not Vick. One of the funnier posts recently was the post that claimed Cardale Jones was similar Roethlisberger. That's completely laughable. Just because the player is big doesn't mean he's similar to Roethlisberger. Roeslisberger can read a defense and complete a pass downfield. Jones will never be that.

[feldspar]

Re: Will Cardale Jones Outperform EJ Manual In Training Camp?

So far this year has just been more proof that Whaley can do defense, but is terrible at offense, especially quarterbacks. His penchant for athletic (read glorified running backs) players who want to throw the ball just prove the fact that he learned nothing from the failed career Michael Vick.

I don't know about you, but I want a QB in the mold of Ben Roethlisberger, not Vick. One of the funnier posts recently was the post that claimed Cardale Jones was similar Roethlisberger. That's completely laughable. Just because the player is big doesn't mean he's similar to Roethlisberger. Roeslisberger can read a defense and complete a pass downfield. Jones will never be that.

I don't know about that. I think Whaley has done a very good job as GM so far getting the best QBs that realistically were available to be had. It's not like there was a wealth of them. He nabbed Kyle Orton, who turned around and retired, and then Tyrod Taylor. Of course that's not ideal, but I don't know who else he realistically could have gotten that would do too much better.

Even the EJ pick wasn't that bad if you consider the Bills set out deliberately to get the best QB in the draft...they very well might have done just that. I know that's not saying much, but the fact remains. At least they traded down. Whaley wasn't the GM then either, but for the sake of argument, we'll call EJ his pick. The idea was never to start EJ right away in the first place. The idea was to develop him behind Kolb, if you remember. Then Kolb got hurt.

We'll see what happens this year with Tyrod Taylor, but QBs don't exactly grow on trees, which is kinda the point.

Btw, I'm not a fan of the Jones pick at all either.