Whaley started the internet on fire today

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  • Arm of Harm
    Registered User
    • Dec 2015
    • 1683

    #91
    Re: Whaley started the internet on fire today

    Originally posted by YardRat View Post
    I'm assuming you're only looking back as far as the Super Bowl's existence, but the dearth of franchise QB's in one division over a 50 year period should be an example of how difficult it is to get a 'franchise' guy (and it's not limited to the AFC East, the West has two teams --KC and Denver--that have never drafted a franchise QB). Personally, I think the list is even smaller, Griese isn't anywhere near a 'franchise' guy, IMO.
    I acknowledge and agree with your point about the difficulty of finding a franchise QB. No argument from me on that one.

    However, that does not negate the importance of the GM's ability to evaluate QB talent, or let Whaley off the hook for his inability to do so. A QB's job is very simple: 1) throw the ball 2) to the correctly chosen target. The first item means you want an accurate QB, the second means you want a guy with fast information processing speed. Those are the two most important traits in a QB, and the two things Whaley should value most.

    When Whaley raved about how great a player E.J. Manuel was, he talked about Manuel's commanding presence in a room, his physical tools, his work ethic. All that is great stuff to have. But none of that stuff matters if a QB is lacking in the two things I mentioned. (As Manuel is, and as that fourth round bust we just drafted is.) If you're going to take a chance on a college QB, take a chance on a guy who did well in those two areas in college play. Not every guy like that will amount to much in the NFL, but at least you've given yourself a chance of something good.

    It's extremely difficult, but not quite impossible, to win a Super Bowl without a franchise QB. The Bills will not draft a franchise QB as long as Whaley is GM. Is Whaley good enough at talent evaluation at other positions to build a team capable of winning a Super Bowl without outstanding QB play? No, he isn't. I'm not saying the man is without successes at the non-QB positions. But neither is he head and shoulders above a typical GM at non-QB positions, either. And he'd need to be head and shoulders above the others at non-QB positions if he's going to win a Super Bowl without a franchise QB.

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    • X-Era
      What this generation tolerates, the next generation will embrace
      • Feb 2005
      • 27670

      #92
      Re: Whaley started the internet on fire today

      Originally posted by OpIv37 View Post
      I guess in your world, the GM has no say over the coach....
      Pegula's.

      Some say, sure. Final decision and ownership of that decision? No.

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      • OpIv37
        Acid Douching Asswipe
        • Sep 2002
        • 101229

        #93
        Re: Whaley started the internet on fire today

        Originally posted by X-Era View Post
        Pegula's.

        Some say, sure. Final decision and ownership of that decision? No.
        Sure but the owner isn't going to go against the wishes of the GM. If Whaley was against hiring Ryan, it instantly creates two strained relationships at the top of the organization. Whaley would feel that Pegula doesn't value his input and wouldn't want to work with the coach he didn't want in the first place.

        If Whaley didn't want Ryan here, he wouldn't be here. But in your mind, you need to believe that Whaley is a good GM, because that's the only way we can win without another 3 year rebuild. So, you blame Ryan for the losses and blame Pegula for Ryan being here to get Whaley off the hook.
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        • Joe Fo Sho
          Making Spirits Bright
          • Mar 2006
          • 6194

          #94
          Re: Whaley started the internet on fire today

          Originally posted by OpIv37 View Post
          Sure but the owner isn't going to go against the wishes of the GM. If Whaley was against hiring Ryan, it instantly creates two strained relationships at the top of the organization. Whaley would feel that Pegula doesn't value his input and wouldn't want to work with the coach he didn't want in the first place.

          If Whaley didn't want Ryan here, he wouldn't be here. But in your mind, you need to believe that Whaley is a good GM, because that's the only way we can win without another 3 year rebuild. So, you blame Ryan for the losses and blame Pegula for Ryan being here to get Whaley off the hook.
          Not necessarily, especially if the coach/GM aren't cry babies like the two they had over in San Fran a couple years ago.

          Just because a GM isn't totally against the hiring of a certain coach doesn't mean that the GM didn't have other coaches higher on his wish list than one that was hired. It's not like Whaley told the Pegula's I want X coach and I hate all of the other candidates. Maybe he said, hey I like Rex but I'd rather have this guy, that guy, or promote Schwartz.

          Either way, we don't know how integral Whaley was in the hiring of Rex. I've seen people blame Russ for hiring Rex, too. Which one was it? The only one that's to blame for sure are the Pegula's, because it all starts at the top.

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          • OpIv37
            Acid Douching Asswipe
            • Sep 2002
            • 101229

            #95
            Re: Whaley started the internet on fire today

            Originally posted by Joe Fo Sho View Post
            Not necessarily, especially if the coach/GM aren't cry babies like the two they had over in San Fran a couple years ago.

            Just because a GM isn't totally against the hiring of a certain coach doesn't mean that the GM didn't have other coaches higher on his wish list than one that was hired. It's not like Whaley told the Pegula's I want X coach and I hate all of the other candidates. Maybe he said, hey I like Rex but I'd rather have this guy, that guy, or promote Schwartz.

            Either way, we don't know how integral Whaley was in the hiring of Rex. I've seen people blame Russ for hiring Rex, too. Which one was it? The only one that's to blame for sure are the Pegula's, because it all starts at the top.
            Not the point I was trying to make.

            If Whaley had said "I absolutely do not want Rex here," there is no way in hell Rex would be here for the reasons I already stated. Therefore, Whaley is at least partially to blame for Ryan being here. Maybe he did favor someone else, but he could have nixed it and he didn't.
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            • X-Era
              What this generation tolerates, the next generation will embrace
              • Feb 2005
              • 27670

              #96
              Re: Whaley started the internet on fire today

              Originally posted by OpIv37 View Post
              Sure but the owner isn't going to go against the wishes of the GM. If Whaley was against hiring Ryan, it instantly creates two strained relationships at the top of the organization. Whaley would feel that Pegula doesn't value his input and wouldn't want to work with the coach he didn't want in the first place.

              If Whaley didn't want Ryan here, he wouldn't be here. But in your mind, you need to believe that Whaley is a good GM, because that's the only way we can win without another 3 year rebuild. So, you blame Ryan for the losses and blame Pegula for Ryan being here to get Whaley off the hook.
              Yeah... see this one is a situation where some want to use the Ryan hiring against Whaley because they aren't Whaley fans. I get it. But to me, Pegula was clear and distinct when he addressed the situation on the HC search. He then has the HC reporting directly to him and not the GM.

              This has been gone over ad naseum. No one was privy to the communications between Pegula and Whaley during the search. We simply don't know how much of an influence Whaley had on the hiring.



              BB.com details the process. Terry and Kim led the interviews but the hiring was consensus.



              So, this was not a situation where the GM held the interviews and then flew to Detroit to recommend/tell the owner what the choice is. This was the other way around. Led by the owner with GM input.

              Whaley liked Ryan but I can't place the ownership for the hiring on Whaley. I place it mostly on the owners and partly on Whaley.

              Final decision and ownership over the choice? No.

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              • OpIv37
                Acid Douching Asswipe
                • Sep 2002
                • 101229

                #97
                Re: Whaley started the internet on fire today

                Whaley could have said "I absolutely do not want Rex here" and Rex would not be here. The final decision was Pegula's, but Whaley could have nixed it and he didn't.

                He still has some of the blood on his hands even if the final decision wasn't his.
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                • Buffalogic
                  Rumblin' Stumblin' Bumblin'
                  • Feb 2006
                  • 5345

                  #98
                  Re: Whaley started the internet on fire today

                  Who cares? A clipped quote in May. Means nothing. It was silly, but harmless.

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                  • Joe Fo Sho
                    Making Spirits Bright
                    • Mar 2006
                    • 6194

                    #99
                    Re: Whaley started the internet on fire today

                    Originally posted by OpIv37 View Post
                    Whaley could have said "I absolutely do not want Rex here" and Rex would not be here.
                    Either that or Whaley wouldn't be here. Maybe he didn't want to give an ultimatum to his brand new boss.

                    Originally posted by OpIv37 View Post
                    He still has some of the blood on his hands even if the final decision wasn't his.
                    I guess so, although nobody knows how much. I don't think either argument really matters as I'm convinced the two are tied together at this point anyway. If one fails, they will be let go together.

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                    • Dozerdog
                      In a jar, on a shelf, next to the unopened Miracle Whip.

                      Administrator Emeritus
                      • Jul 2002
                      • 42586

                      Re: Whaley started the internet on fire today

                      This is just so nonsensical- the fact it's even a news story just goes to show you how lazy reporters are and how watered down news & sports reporting has become.

                      When there were a lot less news reporters and outlets- people actually had decent stories and/or commentary. Now it's assclowns with a blog competing with idiot ESPN beat writers on who's the first to comment on a tweet, an off the cuff comment, or some other irrelevant item.

                      It's not just Bills reporting, or Sports- but everything. Jesus- Trump or Elizabeth Warren tweet something and everyone treats it like the Kennedy assassination.

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                      • X-Era
                        What this generation tolerates, the next generation will embrace
                        • Feb 2005
                        • 27670

                        Re: Whaley started the internet on fire today

                        Originally posted by Joe Fo Sho View Post
                        Either that or Whaley wouldn't be here. Maybe he didn't want to give an ultimatum to his brand new boss.



                        I guess so, although nobody knows how much. I don't think either argument really matters as I'm convinced the two are tied together at this point anyway. If one fails, they will be let go together.
                        I don't think they necessarily are tied together...

                        Getting the groceries for the cook doesn't mean the cook cant screw up the dish...

                        I think the right approach would be to look at who had ownership over what.

                        Whaley:

                        Personnel moves
                        Draft
                        Free agency adds/losses

                        Ryan:

                        On the field performance

                        If we're not winnng the question is two fold... Do we have adequate talent to win? Is the team being coached well enough, and are the game plans strong enough to win?

                        In my opinion, Whaley has provided adequate talent for a playoff caliber team. I think we have to have a franchise QB to win a SB but that we could make the playoffs with the talent level that Whaley has assembled.
                        Last edited by X-Era; 05-26-2016, 08:02 AM.

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                        • Joe Fo Sho
                          Making Spirits Bright
                          • Mar 2006
                          • 6194

                          Re: Whaley started the internet on fire today

                          Originally posted by X-Era View Post
                          I don't think they necessarily are tied together...

                          Getting the groceries for the cook doesn't mean the cook cant screw up the dish...
                          When it comes to restaurants, I agree. In the NFL, it's been seen countless times when a coach is let go, so is the front office. It doesn't happen every time, but I feel like it happens more often than not. Does anyone know the length of Whaley's extension? I couldn't find it, but I wonder if it ends the year before Rex's or the same year as Rex's.

                          I don't know if this means anything, but Pegula didn't hire Whaley. If he lets Rex go, he may just want to clean house and start fresh with his own guys. Who knows.

                          Originally posted by X-Era View Post
                          I think the right approach would be to look at who had ownership over what.

                          Whaley:

                          Personnel moves
                          Draft
                          Free agency adds/losses

                          Ryan:

                          On the field performance

                          If we're not winnng the question is two fold... Do we have adequate talent to win? Is the team being coached well enough, and are the game plans strong enough to win?
                          That certainly seems like a logical approach. Logic isn't always the motivating factor when NFL teams make decisions, though.

                          Originally posted by X-Era View Post
                          In my opinion, Whaley has provided adequate talent for a playoff caliber team. I think we have to have a franchise QB to win a SB but that we could make the playoffs with the talent level that Whaley has assembled.
                          I'm a fan of Whaley. I'm not gonna tie his success solely to finding a franchise QB like a lot of people do. I do wish he was as good at evaluating offensive talent as he is defensive, though.

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                          • OpIv37
                            Acid Douching Asswipe
                            • Sep 2002
                            • 101229

                            Re: Whaley started the internet on fire today

                            Originally posted by Joe Fo Sho View Post
                            Either that or Whaley wouldn't be here. Maybe he didn't want to give an ultimatum to his brand new boss
                            Yeah, a much better option is to allow his new boss to waste millions on the wrong guy and look like an idiot in front of the entire football world....
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                            • IlluminatusUIUC
                              Registered User
                              • Sep 2012
                              • 8966

                              Re: Whaley started the internet on fire today

                              Originally posted by OpIv37 View Post
                              Whaley could have said "I absolutely do not want Rex here" and Rex would not be here. The final decision was Pegula's, but Whaley could have nixed it and he didn't.
                              I don't know why you assume that, the Pegulas were very publicly playing tonsil hockey with Bill Polian to act as a football czar and oversee Whaley. It's obvious that they were not comfortable giving him full authority.


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                              • OpIv37
                                Acid Douching Asswipe
                                • Sep 2002
                                • 101229

                                Re: Whaley started the internet on fire today

                                Originally posted by IlluminatusUIUC View Post
                                I don't know why you assume that, the Pegulas were very publicly playing tonsil hockey with Bill Polian to act as a football czar and oversee Whaley. It's obvious that they were not comfortable giving him full authority.
                                Are you people that hell bent on defending Whaley that you can't comprehend this?

                                I didn't say anything about giving Whaley full authority. What I'm saying is that it would not be in Pegula's interest to force a coach on Whaley and create a strained relationship (actually 2) at the top of the organization. If Whaley really didn't want Rex, Pegula would not have forced the issue.

                                And honestly, if the Pegula's distrusted Whaley so much, why keep him?
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