Is it a money issue or talent issue ?

[sdbillsfan2]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/lesean-mccoy-become-expendable-buffalo-120009526.html

Bye bye Shady

Ultimately..I believe after this year he will be gone to free up some money. Im okay with that.

[OpIv37]

Re: Is it a money issue or talent issue ?

It's a "this is why you don't give up assets for RB's in this league" issue. Everyone seemed to see this coming except our FO.

The guy neglected a few things though. First, Karlos Williams has injury issues of his own and showed up to camps out of shape. So, he needs to prove himself before being dubbed Shady's heir apparent.

Secondly, the Bills are in cap trouble this year but are slated to have a lot of cap space next year. We shouldn't have to worry about a cap casualty. Of course, the team could always decide he's not worth the money and cut him to save real dollars, but Pegula has plenty of those too.

[trapezeus]

Re: Is it a money issue or talent issue ?

but the bills gave up a lb who had a one hit year and then faded away. even with lack of superstar production, I'd rather have shady than kiko at this point. and it was a gamble if you thought the d was going to be top 5, having an explosive back with an average qb was a good bet to make at the time. and if your bet was solely to get into the playoffs. for a long term gamble it was expensive and ultimately, you should be drafting a rb every year to have fresh legs. its a brutal position. only a few go on to be productive past 30.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Re: Is it a money issue or talent issue ?

I disagree, but I admit I'm biased because I have seen him in Pitt, a bit in Phily and extensively last year.

The guy is truly one of the VERY top talent; personally I think he is better than Curtis Martin. I was not surprised Whaley jumped on the opportunity to get McCoy and honestly I have NOT seen any slow down in his game.

I do admit that McCoy is a man child in that he is still very immature at 27, 28 year old. I heard he does everything to the fullest in team settings but not hardcore like Gilmore who goes beyond team settings preparing the body and mind for games. So he actually has room to grow yet, but it could also mean his career could drop off a cliff.. McCoy is widely known for his dynamic lateral agility, change of direction, and peripheral vision. If I were his advisers, I'd strongly suggest that he increases his training regiments because if his first two traits are gone, he's finished very quickly.

Maybe Rex and Roman are looking for Jerome Bettis type of Battering Ram (with surprising nimble feet). But I gotta believe that after having McCoy for a year, Roman should find a better way to run McCoy. Personally I think Felton is not the best idea with McCoy in the back field.

Of course, McCoy's best friend just might be an emerging Tyrod. Can you imagine what a 2016 McCoy stats would be if he gets to line up behind Tom Brady?

[Joe Fo Sho]

Re: Is it a money issue or talent issue ?

Lesean McCoy

2017 Cap Hit - $8,875,000
2017 Dead Cap - $7,875,000

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/lesean-mccoy/

So we cut him, take on $8 million in dead cap space, and only save $1 million. Why would we do that?

[stuckincincy]

Re: Is it a money issue or talent issue ?

I disagree, but I admit I'm biased because I have seen him in Pitt, a bit in Phily and extensively last year.

The guy is truly one of the VERY top talent; personally I think he is better than Curtis Martin. I was not surprised Whaley jumped on the opportunity to get McCoy and honestly I have NOT seen any slow down in his game.

I do admit that McCoy is a man child in that he is still very immature at 27, 28 year old. I heard he does everything to the fullest in team settings but not hardcore like Gilmore who goes beyond team settings preparing the body and mind for games. So he actually has room to grow yet, but it could also mean his career could drop off a cliff.. McCoy is widely known for his dynamic lateral agility, change of direction, and peripheral vision. If I were his advisers, I'd strongly suggest that he increases his training regiments because if his first two traits are gone, he's finished very quickly.

Maybe Rex and Roman are looking for Jerome Bettis type of Battering Ram (with surprising nimble feet). But I gotta believe that after having McCoy for a year, Roman should find a better way to run McCoy. Personally I think Felton is not the best idea with McCoy in the back field.

Of course, McCoy's best friend just might be an emerging Tyrod. Can you imagine what a 2016 McCoy stats would be if he gets to line up behind Tom Brady?

Better than Martin? He was a heck of a player...got the yards when it mattered. IMO - like an Eddie George or a John Riggens.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtis_Martin

[feldspar]

Re: Is it a money issue or talent issue ?

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/lesean-...120009526.html

Bye bye Shady

Ultimately..I believe after this year he will be gone to free up some money. Im okay with that.

You would cut a top five talent at RB on a run-first team to free up $1 million next year?

[Ed]

Re: Is it a money issue or talent issue ?

Even if he has a bad year it doesn't really make any sense to cut him after this season. They'd only save $1 mil in cap space and have to take a $7.8 mil dead cap hit. Even cutting him after the 2017 season would still leave them with about $5.2 mil in dead money. As long as McCoy is healthy there's no reason he can't continue to be one of the top RBs in the league for a few more years. Will he be worth the money? Maybe not, but it's definitely not worth it to cut him over the next couple years.

[stuckincincy]

Re: Is it a money issue or talent issue ?

You would cut a top five talent at RB on a run-first team to free up $1 million next year?

McCoy is a "top five" talent ??? They payed a horrific price for his services. They could have wooed CIN for a trade for Giovanni Bernard, for example:

..."1. Giovanni Bernard's three-year, $15.5 million contract looks like a steal for the Cincinnati Bengals. We nearly put him on our list of players that should make their first Pro Bowl in 2015 because he's the rare big name who is somehow underrated.
RBs who outplayed Gio in '15: Doug Martin, Adrian Peterson, Todd Gurley, Devonta Freeman. That's it."

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000668023/article/what-we-learned-from-wednesdays-minicamps-otas

Inking McCoy was dumb. A flash 'n glam move to fill the seats.

http://www.nfl.com/player/leseanmccoy/79607/careerstats

[feldspar]

Re: Is it a money issue or talent issue ?

McCoy is a "top five" talent ??? They payed a horrific price for his services. They could have wooed CIN for a trade for Giovanni Bernard, for example:

..."1. Giovanni Bernard's three-year, $15.5 million contract looks like a steal for the Cincinnati Bengals. We nearly put him on our list of players that should make their first Pro Bowl in 2015 because he's the rare big name who is somehow underrated.
RBs who outplayed Gio in '15: Doug Martin, Adrian Peterson, Todd Gurley, Devonta Freeman. That's it."

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000668023/article/what-we-learned-from-wednesdays-minicamps-otas

Inking McCoy was dumb. A flash 'n glam move to fill the seats.

http://www.nfl.com/player/leseanmccoy/79607/careerstats

Yes, LeSean McCoy is a top five RB talent.

Why bring up this article about Giovani Bernard in reference to observations from Wednesday's mini-camp and other opinions? Even the author who says Bernard is underrated knows enough about him to spell his name wrong. But what's the difference anyway?

LeSean McCoy is a first-team All-Pro twice over. A four-time Pro-Bowler. NFL rushing leader of the year, NFC offensive player of the year, and NFL rushing TD leader one year.

Why bring up Giovani Bernard at all? Is this supposed to prove a point that MCCoy is not a top five talent? You'll have to do much better than that. If you want to bring up stats, just compare the stats between Bernard and McCoy, and then get back to me:

http://www.nfl.com/player/leseanmccoy/79607/profile

http://www.nfl.com/player/giovanibernard/2540156/profile

Wow, Bernard has had 730 yard rushing in his best year yet. Not like he comes cheap, either.

Have you not seen McCoy play throughout his career?

[YardRat]

Re: Is it a money issue or talent issue ?

but the bills gave up a lb who had a one hit year and then faded away. even with lack of superstar production, I'd rather have shady than kiko at this point. and it was a gamble if you thought the d was going to be top 5, having an explosive back with an average qb was a good bet to make at the time. and if your bet was solely to get into the playoffs. for a long term gamble it was expensive and ultimately, you should be drafting a rb every year to have fresh legs. its a brutal position. only a few go on to be productive past 30.

I would have been happier if they would have unloaded Kiko for an offensive lineman instead.

Whether or not the trade itself was wise is up for discussion, but ponying up huge bucks just to make him 'happy' to come here was inexcusable. If the contract wasn't renegotiated and it was a simple swap of bodies, less people would be critical of the move IMO.

[Frenchman]

Re: Is it a money issue or talent issue ?

McCoy has the talent. Despite the fact of him being a baby at times. But still, Bills need him. As when he runs really well, it counts for the team and him.

[Night Train]

Re: Is it a money issue or talent issue ?

Lesean McCoy

2017 Cap Hit - $8,875,000
2017 Dead Cap - $7,875,000

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/lesean-mccoy/

So we cut him, take on $8 million in dead cap space, and only save $1 million. Why would we do that?

Because we need to teach him a lesson ( Zone logic )

[Mace]

Re: Is it a money issue or talent issue ?

So we cut him, take on $8 million in dead cap space, and only save $1 million. Why would we do that?

So we can sign 10 vet RB's at vet minimum and filter through them. I'm half serious because I think a good team should be able to do that, however...that leads to the next sentence below...

I'm not a McCoy fan and I'm not optimistic about his upcoming season. That said I'm hoping he has a great one, and even I would wait until he plays it before before figuring he needs a boot to save 1 million dollars.

Looking at the other players in the Buffalo Bills backfield, the situation for LeSean McCoy becomes even more bleak. Mike Gillislee, Karlos Williams, and newly drafted rookie Jonathan Williams all look to have good amounts of ability in the backfield and will all likely get some game time this season.

Well Gillislee showed promise but 5 games is nothing to make book on, Karlos is another concussion away from extended quiet time, and the latest Williams hasn't even played a down. I don't think I'd call that one of the deepest backfields in the entire NFL that makes McCoy expendable before he even took the field for a 2016 play.

Not a fan of the trade, not a fan of McCoy, not a fan of overpriced bellcow backs, but geez let him play a 2nd season before a dramatic conclusion that he needs to go.

[YardRat]

Re: Is it a money issue or talent issue ?

Denver won the Super Bowl with a waaay over the hill QB sportin' a dead arm and RB's named CJ Anderson and Ronnie Hillman. They did, however, take the #3 defense in 2014 and didn't trash it, and hired a head coach that didn't want to trash it.

Just sayin'...