Bosa /Chargers aren't coming together, their best offer is being pulled of the table

[Turf]

Re: Bosa /Chargers aren't coming together, their best offer is being pulled of the ta

I really don't get this. He gets the same guaranteed money through the life of the deal, but wants to either (no offset) double dip if he's that terrible to get cut in 4 years (before option), or wants more of the money he'll get anyway (I read somewhere it's like 1.5 mil diff) from the Chargers.

It's the same money. It's guaranteed.

Tell him to go **** himself. I'm on board with the Chargers. There's a reason all this has been negotiated, to avoid this stuff. He cant get this money as a CEO in 5 years, like he could anyways.

[stuckincincy]

Re: Bosa /Chargers aren't coming together, their best offer is being pulled of the ta

If only one team does it I'm missing the collusion basis.

The other way to view this is that allthe other teams aren't having this problem under the same CBA...

It doesn't seem that hard to me. The contract is pretty much known. It's a cheap rate compared to pre-rookie-salary-cap days so what is the problem.

I can't back the Chargers at all here. If they are getting the guy they think they have based on the pick they spent on him they get a steal.

IIRC, he wants all his guaranteed $ up front, and wants you to sign up to pay that regardless if he every plays a down. You can't recover future money if I go out and do something bad.

That's like hiring a contractor who says pay me for all the materials and labor costs that I haven't yet incurred - now - before I start the job, and too bad for you if I never show up. And if I do show up and dig a ditch somebody falls in, no skin off my nose. You gotta pay me additional $ to get out of the contract.

[Mace]

Re: Bosa /Chargers aren't coming together, their best offer is being pulled of the ta

IIRC, he wants all his guaranteed $ up front, and wants you to sign up to pay that regardless if he every plays a down. You can't recover future money if I go out and do something bad.

That's like hiring a contractor who says pay me for all thematerials and labor costs that I haven't yet incurred - now - before I start the job, and too bad for you if I never show up. And if I dig a ditch somebody falls in, no skin off my nose.

The weird thing to me is that it's still the guaranteed money he's guaranteed. I don't get why anyone is blaming the Chargers. He gets the same money. They offered him up to 15.5 million of 17 million first year that he's going to get anyway. He still gets that 1.5 million and all the rest, because well, it's guaranteed.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Re: Bosa /Chargers aren't coming together, their best offer is being pulled of the ta

IIRC, he wants all his guaranteed $ up front, and wants you to sign up to pay that regardless if he every plays a down. You can't recover future money if I go out and do something bad.

That's like hiring a contractor who says pay me for all the materials and labor costs that I haven't yet incurred - now - before I start the job, and too bad for you if I never show up. And if I do show up and dig a ditch somebody falls in, no skin off my nose. You gotta pay me additional $ to get out of the contract.

That's how guaranteed money works. It's guaranteed even if you are terrible. This is more like scouring the country to find the best contractor in the USA, paying a massive retainer to secure his exclusive rights, and then saying "Woah! What if you're an incompetent buffoon? I gotta protect myself here!"

The weird thing to me is that it's still the guaranteed money he's guaranteed. I don't get why anyone is blaming the Chargers. He gets the same money. They offered him up to 15.5 million of 17 million first year that he's going to get anyway. He still gets that 1.5 million and all the rest, because well, it's guaranteed.

I'm blaming the Chargers because this always seems to happen to the Chargers. This is, by my count, the sixth franchise type player they've antagonized until it became a public **** flinging contest just in the last 15 years.

[Mace]

Re: Bosa /Chargers aren't coming together, their best offer is being pulled of the ta

I'm blaming the Chargers because this always seems to happen to the Chargers. This is, by my count, the sixth franchise type player they've antagonized until it became a public **** flinging contest just in the last 15 years.

I mean that's fine and all, but it's still the same guaranteed money.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Re: Bosa /Chargers aren't coming together, their best offer is being pulled of the ta

I mean that's fine and all, but it's still the same guaranteed money.

If it's all the same, why not pay it?

[Mace]

Re: Bosa /Chargers aren't coming together, their best offer is being pulled of the ta

Your books. NFL teams have them.

Would anyone reasonably refuse 15.5 million when they're getting the other 1.5 the next year anyway ?

There is no "if" whatever. It's the same GUARANTEED money by slot. It just is.

[Turf]

Re: Bosa /Chargers aren't coming together, their best offer is being pulled of the ta

Bosa's a Vesey. See Marinovich. **** em all.

[Ingtar33]

Re: Bosa /Chargers aren't coming together, their best offer is being pulled of the ta

If only one team does it I'm missing the collusion basis.

The other way to view this is that allthe other teams aren't having this problem under the same CBA...

It doesn't seem that hard to me. The contract is pretty much known. It's a cheap rate compared to pre-rookie-salary-cap days so what is the problem.

I can't back the Chargers at all here. If they are getting the guy they think they have based on the pick they spent on him they get a steal.

2 years ago, simultaneously nearly all the teams independently and without consulting each other in any way whatsoever , suddenly started to demand "offsets" in their rookie contract offers. Prior to this only a couple of teams were using it (Chargers included in that list), and it was a "negotiable" feature of those contracts. In the NFL right now, no team will bend on offsets for rookie deals anymore. It's straight up collusion. And offsets are one of the things the players union is going to try to get rid of next CBA (offsets are ALLOWED in the current CBA; the teams aren't doing anything illegal, it's just curious how it went from a nearly never used contract detail to universally used contract detail which no nfl team will bend on no matter what).

[Skooby]

Re: Bosa /Chargers aren't coming together, their best offer is being pulled of the ta

You can say that about 95% of the threads you start.

My threads get people talking and debating each other, better than talking about S--t in other forums (literally).

[DraftBoy]

Re: Bosa /Chargers aren't coming together, their best offer is being pulled of the ta

He can't waive anything for signing bonus. From what I understand it's predetermined based on percentage of cap by draft slot in the first 4 rounds.

Again, this is from what I understand in looking it up.



"Vast majority" I believe is first 4 rounds.

http://mmqb.si.com/2014/05/22/nfl-ro...t-negotiations

Yea, so a sign and trade isn't possible.

Thanks for the clarification!

[DraftBoy]

Re: Bosa /Chargers aren't coming together, their best offer is being pulled of the ta

Your books. NFL teams have them.

Would anyone reasonably refuse 15.5 million when they're getting the other 1.5 the next year anyway ?

There is no "if" whatever. It's the same GUARANTEED money by slot. It just is.

I disagree, if I'm getting guaranteed money, then that should truly mean guaranteed no matter what.

I think the offset language is BS and I know every NFL team does it. If I'm willing to pick you at #4 and guarantee you $17 million and then you suck, well that's kinda on me for having a bad scouting department. I should be on the hook for the full $17 million even if I cut you after Year 2 and you sign three days later for $5 million dollars. That's just the nature of the risk a team takes.

The issue here is that Bosa wants either his entire bonus up front or no offset language. The Chargers want to both defer the bonus and include offset language. From 2012 to 2015 none of the players selected 2nd, 3rd, or 4th agreed to rookie deals that included either a deferment of bonus or offfsets. To suddenly ask this of Bosa because Wentz and Elliott's agents don't have the balls to stand up for their clients doesn't mean Bosa should bend.

In the end this is on the NFLPA for allowing the owners to bend them over on the rookie cap pool during the last labor negotiations.

[Skooby]

Re: Bosa /Chargers aren't coming together, their best offer is being pulled of the ta

I disagree, if I'm getting guaranteed money, then that should truly mean guaranteed no matter what.

I think the offset language is BS and I know every NFL team does it. If I'm willing to pick you at #4 and guarantee you $17 million and then you suck, well that's kinda on me for having a bad scouting department. I should be on the hook for the full $17 million even if I cut you after Year 2 and you sign three days later for $5 million dollars. That's just the nature of the risk a team takes.

The issue here is that Bosa wants either his entire bonus up front or no offset language. The Chargers want to both defer the bonus and include offset language. From 2012 to 2015 none of the players selected 2nd, 3rd, or 4th agreed to rookie deals that included either a deferment of bonus or offfsets. To suddenly ask this of Bosa because Wentz and Elliott's agents don't have the balls to stand up for their clients doesn't mean Bosa should bend.

In the end this is on the NFLPA for allowing the owners to bend them over on the rookie cap pool during the last labor negotiations.

Bosa stands to lose ~ $9 Million guaranteed if he goes to the next draft, seems like a terrible move for him regardless of what the NFLPA did in the past.

[DraftBoy]

Re: Bosa /Chargers aren't coming together, their best offer is being pulled of the ta

Bosa stands to lose ~ $9 Million guaranteed if he goes to the next draft, seems like a terrible move for him regardless of what the NFLPA did in the past.

He's definitely taking a huge risk, I'm not sure I would do it.

[Forward_Lateral]

Re: Bosa /Chargers aren't coming together, their best offer is being pulled of the ta

I thought the CBA prevented stuff like this from happening? I didn't think draft picks could hold out anymore?