Dunno. His motivation to perform is under serious question. And were I a GM, I'd have to be concerned about the effect inking him would have on my current players who are already giving their best efforts to get wins for their team.Originally Posted by Mr. Pink
Fiat justitia ruat caelum. Noli timere. Laus Deo.
Not if he wants a second contract and to get seriously paid.
COMING SOON...
I guess SD's public outburst puts that doubt into other GM's minds as well. so I guess that makes more sense on why they did it that way. make him seem like damaged goods.
I started none today, lowering my average to 19.9 a day.
Mace (08-25-2016)
Add some more, please. Days can go by when this site inches along like the tiny waves lapping up against an old sailing ship mired in the doldrums. Heh - mixed metaphores rule!
Yes, but this is the whole thing in a nutshell. It IS truly guaranteed.
If the last year of his contract says he gets 2 million, he gets 2 million. Period. Offset language means if he was bad enough to get cut, and some team gives him 100k, he still gets 2 million. The Chargers just pay 1,900,000 of it, while the new team pays 100k. He gets 2 million.
Thing is, if you're bad enough to get cut, teams don't just cut cheap players with possibility, they pick up the option and then tags and UFA start, why should he get to increase his salary ? First of all, he's going on waivers, a team claims him. He still gets 2 million dollars. They are going to pay him lower, that's right, he was cut, they don't want to pay him 2 million dollars, San Diego is still on the hook for the guaranteed money minus his new salary. Why should he get 2 million dollars from San Diego, plus say a million from a team who wants him to report, essentially rewarding him for being terrible in San Diego and getting cut under guaranteed contract ? That's double dipping.
As for his guarantee, he's getting 17 million signing bonus. 15.5 up front and 1.5 next year is unreasonable ? He's getting the whole 17 million regardless.
Put the whole thing into real world context. You're guaranteed the next 4 years of salary no matter how you do, with a huge bonus, guaranteed. Are you going to haggle that if you're terrible and get fired (you're still guaranteed the whole sum), you should be able to make even more off of your terrible performance ? This sort of puts the employers position in a different light. You're still getting the same sum regardless, the employer your dorked and the employer you joined are just sharing the burden of your career path.
He gets the same guaranteed money. No offset gets him more for being cut. Still makes no sense to me.
I'm kind of amazed I'm arguing about Joey Bosa this passionately and he's not even on the Bills, but I guess I'm that bored at this point in the offseason.
Bill Cody (08-26-2016)
I appreciate that, it's hard when you perpetually get grief when pointing things out that might be unobvious. Some things may even seem crazy but there's other angles that need to viewed.
Spanos pulled the Chargers' latest offer after failing to reach agreement on a deal that would pay Bosa 85 percent of his $17 million signing bonus during this calendar year. That offer was up from San Diego's starting point of 60 percent.
"I'm blown away," Spanos told the San Diego Union-Tribune. "At all costs I wanted to avoid going down this road. They made it overly clear we had no other option."
Now that the Chargers are resigned to the contract impasse's deleterious effect on Bosa's rookie season, Spanos is pulling no punches.
"It's absolutely asinine," Spanos said. "He would have gotten more cash in this calendar year than anyone except Carson Wentz."
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300...lutely-asinine
WTF does this guy want, or think he deserves? He's going to turn down getting 85% of his guaranteed money this year? Why exactly? He's definitely putting a lot of unnecessary pressure on himself by doing this...this is not the way to become a fan-favorite. He'd better play well once he finally arrives, or they won't let him be.
He's been convinced that he's the S--t, life doesn't hand you $17 M for sure without some type of luck. If anything happens to him, his might run out.
No, it's truly not. A guaranteed contract means that regardless of what happens to me you as the organization owes me X dollars. You don't suddenly get taken off the hook because you can't scout or put me in a position to fail. Why should I support your risk mitigation techniques and take on all the risk? If I go out there and under preform not only do I hurt my current earnings but I also hurt my future earnings because the league wants to double dip.
I get that if this is waivers but the offset isn't just limited to waivers. That's my issue with it.Thing is, if you're bad enough to get cut, teams don't just cut cheap players with possibility, they pick up the option and then tags and UFA start, why should he get to increase his salary ? First of all, he's going on waivers, a team claims him. He still gets 2 million dollars. They are going to pay him lower, that's right, he was cut, they don't want to pay him 2 million dollars, San Diego is still on the hook for the guaranteed money minus his new salary. Why should he get 2 million dollars from San Diego, plus say a million from a team who wants him to report, essentially rewarding him for being terrible in San Diego and getting cut under guaranteed contract ? That's double dipping.
I don't know, but if you tell me I'm getting a $17 million signing bonus, I'm gonna be expecting a check for $17 million once I sign, you wouldn't?As for his guarantee, he's getting 17 million signing bonus. 15.5 up front and 1.5 next year is unreasonable ? He's getting the whole 17 million regardless.
You can't do that because the difference between how a regular corporation operates in the NFL are not even remotely comparable.Put the whole thing into real world context. You're guaranteed the next 4 years of salary no matter how you do, with a huge bonus, guaranteed. Are you going to haggle that if you're terrible and get fired (you're still guaranteed the whole sum), you should be able to make even more off of your terrible performance ? This sort of puts the employers position in a different light. You're still getting the same sum regardless, the employer your dorked and the employer you joined are just sharing the burden of your career path.
There is no guarantee he gets more, if he gets cut going into the final year with a $5 million guaranteed amount left but signs a 1 year deal for $2 million he's not suddenly going to be making seven. He still only gets five million he was already owed, that's basically free labor for the team who signed him.He gets the same guaranteed money. No offset gets him more for being cut. Still makes no sense to me.
No worries, college football kicks off tonight, so we should be good to go after this.I'm kind of amazed I'm arguing about Joey Bosa this passionately and he's not even on the Bills, but I guess I'm that bored at this point in the offseason.
He wanted either his entire signing bonus up front or he wanted no offsets. No other pick at #2-5 was asked to give up either from 2012-2015.
There's ALWAYS a bigger incentive to play well but you can't deny removing the offsets creates an incentive in the other direction that isn't there with the offsets. Obviously a lot of teams including SD have non-bigotedn up to this and they want no part of it which makes sense to me.
Example: Let's say Bosa gets hurt and then isn't really the same guy after he returns and he gets frustrated. With no offsets he can play all kinds of games until he's cut and then some team like NE gives him a 2nd chance. So then he goes Rocky and puts the pedal to the metal all the while SD is still paying him. That's nonsense.
Bosa is no saint...he's no Charger, either.
he's just being an idiot at this point, IMO. Or maybe it's his ma or his agent. But this is just stupid already.
Skooby (08-26-2016)
It's like not cashing a lottery ticket on time, it's sorta crazy.
feldspar (08-26-2016)
I don't know what the difference is to Bosa whether he has to wait a matter of months to get the remaining 15% of his guaranteed money, or signing bonus, or whatever. I mean, WTF? What exactly does he need to buy or invest in in the meantime?
You are right. He's set to be a rich man, but refuses to play the game, if you will. This should not be that big of a deal at all.
Sounds to me like he's banking on the possibility that he won't be good at the the thing he's actually being paid for. I can't imagine the *****-fest that would ensue had something like this happen with the Bills. But, again, I think Bosa has egg on his face with a sense of entitlement at this point. All this training he's missed will not help his play either, obviously. Dunno who is on "his side" anymore. I'm not.
Skooby (08-26-2016)
I just think Bosa has no desire to play for the Chargers and is quibbling about any little thing to get his way.
At this point almost everyone publicly is ridiculing the Chargers for what they're doing in this entire process and they might have pushed things beyond the point of no return.
Unless there is a sign and trade, which I dunno if it even happens in the NFL, I don't see Bosa ever signing a contract with the Chargers.
I say **** the entitled jackass. He's alarming the entire league of his mentality and is only hurting himself in San Diego and elsewhere.
Lou Saban: You can get it done, you can get it done. And what’s more, you’ve gotta get it done.
I disagree, take Sammy Watkins for example. He was the #4 pick in 2014 and his contract does not contain any offset language. Do you think he has any kind of an incentive to not try hard? A guy is either going to want to make the most of his opportunity or he isn't, the inclusion of offset language doesn't do anything to add incentive for poor play.
That's the risk you take when you draft any player. That's also why the owners got the rookie cap in the first place to limit their risk. Injuries happen and some times guys who get a second or third chance finally bloom.Example: Let's say Bosa gets hurt and then isn't really the same guy after he returns and he gets frustrated. With no offsets he can play all kinds of games until he's cut and then some team like NE gives him a 2nd chance. So then he goes Rocky and puts the pedal to the metal all the while SD is still paying him. That's nonsense.
The thing is he's not.
The rest of the league is pretty alarmed at the Chargers for their behavior in this whole thing.
Obviously you're wrong. If you were right teams wouldn't be demanding it. Or is your position that no player would ever take advantage of the contract just because most don't? Or that the teams are just being dicks? No, there's a reason there's an argument here.
Only if the team and the player agree it is. The offsets are not illegal. Your argument is that it wasn't done in the past so it shouldn't be done now. To which I say it was dumb before and it's dumb now.That's the risk you take when you draft any player. That's also why the owners got the rookie cap in the first place to limit their risk. Injuries happen and some times guys who get a second or third chance finally bloom.
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