Why Russ Brandon needs to go.

[OpIv37]

Trading for a running back who had over 3600 yards from scrimmage over the 2 previous years isn't a football decision?

Just because Rex didn't work out doesn't mean they valued his marketing value over his football unintelligence.

You think Clay really helped market this team? Really?

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That's certainly no reason not to call for his head on a stick, right?

Trading for an RB is problematic period. It's the easiest position to fill and has the shortest life span.

And yes, Clay helped market the team. We got him from a div rival and he plays a position this team has struggled to fill for 20 years.

They absolutely valued the ability to market Rex. The coaching choices available weren't great when Rex was hired. Might as well grab the biggest name and put asses in seats.

[cookie G]

My point is that he's in a new role, that doesn't involve the football side of the team. You can list all of the garbage football decisions you want, and you'd be right. No one can argue that.

He's screwed up a lot in the past, you'd have to be an idiot not to see that. He's also done some good things for the business side of this team, and you'd have to be an idiot not to see that. He's in a business role now, which seems fine to me.

Why don't you answer my question now. Why do you think the Bills had the potential to be a playoff team last year and this year?

Last chance...care to answer it or continue to dodge?

[OpIv37]

I'm saying that his role today is to make business decisions while Whaley makes football decisions.

By your own admission, Brandon is bad at football decisions. As long as he is here, you have no way of knowing how much influence he has over football decisions. Why would you be willing to take that risk? And why don't you want to see him held accountable for his bad football decisions? The guy actually got promoted after making football decisions that you admit were bad.

[Joe Fo Sho]

By your own admission, Brandon is bad at football decisions. As long as he is here, you have no way of knowing how much influence he has over football decisions. Why would you be willing to take that risk? And why don't you want to see him held accountable for his bad football decisions? The guy actually got promoted after making football decisions that you admit were bad.

Promoted by Ralph. His football duties were stripped by Pegula.

Either way, this argument is pointless. We can bicker 'til the cows come home, but we both know Russ is going nowhere.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Trading for an RB is problematic period. It's the easiest position to fill and has the shortest life span.

3,600 yards. That's meaningless on the field.

And yes, Clay helped market the team. We got him from a div rival and he plays a position this team has struggled to fill for 20 years.

So it was a football decision then. We needed a tight end, a position you admit we struggled at.

They absolutely valued the ability to market Rex. The coaching choices available weren't great when Rex was hired. Might as well grab the biggest name and put asses in seats.

This is something neither of us can prove. I genuinely think Pegula thought Rex could win here, you don't.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Ok, but this comes back to how influential he is in Pegula's ear regarding football decisions and speaks to what he's done previously in terms of involvement with the Ryan search. If he was pure business he'd have no involvement in replacing Whaley or Ryan this time then.

If he'll be involved with next coach/gm search, it means they turned to him in football matters.

Russ will not be responsible for making the decision. I'm pretty convinced of that.

If he is, I'll get out my pitchforks with the rest of you.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Last chance...care to answer it or continue to dodge?

You really need me to list his business accomplishments for the Buffalo Bills?

He was involved in the search for a new owner, keeping the Bills local and selling them for a record value.
Recent improvements to the stadium.
Naming rights for the stadium.
The Toronto deal was fantastic for business.
Record number of season tickets sold last year.

He's good enough at his job that the Raiders tried poaching him recently.

[Mace]

Russ will not be responsible for making the decision. I'm pretty convinced of that.

If he is, I'll get out my pitchforks with the rest of you.

You're still ducking the football influence significance. A pure business guy (as you assert) would not be involved in the process.

[OpIv37]

3,600 yards. That's meaningless on the field.



So it was a football decision then. We needed a tight end, a position you admit we struggled at.



This is something neither of us can prove. I genuinely think Pegula thought Rex could win here, you don't.

First, he hasn't come close to performing at the 3600 yard level yet. Second, he still plays the easiest position to fill with the shortest shelf life. Giving up assets for a running back is dumb, but it gave us a big, marketable name.

Bringing in a TE was a football decision. Doing it at the expense of the 2016 cap was a marketing decision. All of the 2015 decisions pre-determined that the best we could do in the 2016 off season was to maintain the status quo. But it got the fans excited in Pegula's first off-season as owner.

[OpIv37]

Either way, this argument is pointless. We can bicker 'til the cows come home, but we both know Russ is going nowhere.

And this is the unfortunate reality of the Buffalo Bills. People who make bad football decisions but bring in lots of money are promoted.

[Joe Fo Sho]

You're still ducking the football influence significance. A pure business guy (as you assert) would not be involved in the process.

To me, if we're going to be looking for a new GM and coach, the best scenario would be for Pegula to pick a GM and for the GM to hire the coach. I have no idea if that's what's going to happen. I do know that whoever gets hired, Russ will be at the press conference and there will inevitably be a report that Russ saw the new GM in the hallway during the interview process and told Pegula that he liked his shirt and this board will explode with hatred for how much influence Russ has over Pegula.

[Joe Fo Sho]

First, he hasn't come close to performing at the 3600 yard level yet. Second, he still plays the easiest position to fill with the shortest shelf life. Giving up assets for a running back is dumb, but it gave us a big, marketable name.

Good football players have marketable names. Your not really breaking any new ground.

I was OK with the trade for McCoy, but was in the same boat as you as I was against his extension. Good football teams have been known to pay for running backs, though. It's not completely unheard of.

Denver signed Peyton Manning, he was one of the biggest names in football. Was that a marketing decision? You probably would say it was if Peyton never recovered from his neck injury. That's the risk you take with any player you sign/trade for. If a player underperforms, it doesn't mean the intention of signing him was not valid.

Bringing in a TE was a football decision. Doing it at the expense of the 2016 cap was a marketing decision. All of the 2015 decisions pre-determined that the best we could do in the 2016 off season was to maintain the status quo. But it got the fans excited in Pegula's first off-season as owner.

I think you're just taking decisions that turned out to be bad football decisions and spinning them to be made solely for marketing purposes. If Tyrod wasn't garbage maybe we'd be able to make use of Clay/McCoy/Player X.

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And this is the unfortunate reality of the Buffalo Bills. People who make bad football decisions but bring in lots of money are promoted.

Yes, that's what Ralph did.

[cookie G]

You really need me to list his business accomplishments for the Buffalo Bills?

He was involved in the search for a new owner, keeping the Bills local and selling them for a record value.
Recent improvements to the stadium.
Naming rights for the stadium.
The Toronto deal was fantastic for business.
Record number of season tickets sold last year.

He's good enough at his job that the Raiders tried poaching him recently.

No...I asked..in his 9 years as either the GM or in a supervisory capacity of both the GM's and coaches...

what has he done to improve the football team?

You couldn't come up with an answer.

And that statement speaks volumes.

But you want to keep the guy around to pick the next head coach, and/or GM, if Whaley gets canned too.

I can hardly wait for his next selection...

Coach Carter
Al Pacino
The Assistant Coach from Remember the Titans
Mad Dog Mahoney (google it..old guy reference).

[cookie G]

To be fair, as owner pro temp during Ralph's final few years Brandon oversaw a franchise that was built and ready to contend for the playoffs with a dominant defense and solid special teams. The only thing they needed was an average QB and one or two offensive linemen. The reality is, the only difference between Denver and Buffalo last season was a coaching hire and what direction the new coach took the team. Now, I tend to be a half-apologist for Brandon because I respect what he has done from a business management standpoint but I'll re-iterate...even I think the Wrecks hire has his marketing-stank fingerprints all over it, and if he really did influence the Pegula's to move in that direction there should be a conscious effort to publicly remove him from any and all actual football-related decisions.

I agree that the team was close to making a playoff run, the pieces needed were getting smaller. Getting an OC that didn't use a 180 lb scat back as a FB would be a step in the right direction. Someone to leave the defense intact would be another.

So what happened?

Hue Jackson publicly stated that he "aced" the interview and was confident he got the job. He was adamant about bringing Schwartz back, because he loved his defense. Rumors are he had already approached Schwartz. According to him, people wanted to keep the defense intact. (THAT worked out well).

The unsubstantiated rumor is that Whaley was asked to rank the coaching candidates and he had Hue Jackson at no. 1. How true it is..idk.

Then...Sexy Rexy becomes available, after his stellar 4-12 campaign with the Jets.

Pegulas become infatuated with his folksy ways.

Russ falls in love with the marketing possibilities..and the increased face time on ESPN and NFLN. (As if fielding a playoff team wouldn't increase face time).

I've always wondered what Whaley's thoughts were in teh selection process, if he tried to dissuade the Pegula's from hiring Rex. I mean...when the head coach doesn't report to the GM...a red flag is raised.

But to me..it doesn't really merely stink of a marketing move, its pretty much a certainty, at least from Russ' perspective. And I think...apparently a playoff team isn't a good enough marketing gimmick.

Maybe more than any other time, this team cries out for an outside consultant, with actual experience in running a football team.

[Joe Fo Sho]

No...I asked..in his 9 years as either the GM or in a supervisory capacity of both the GM's and coaches...

what has he done to improve the football team?

You couldn't come up with an answer.

I already answered that.

It's nothing. That's not what I'm arguing, obviously you don't see that.

[OpIv37]

Good football players have marketable names. Your not really breaking any new ground.

I was OK with the trade for McCoy, but was in the same boat as you as I was against his extension. Good football teams have been known to pay for running backs, though. It's not completely unheard of.

Denver signed Peyton Manning, he was one of the biggest names in football. Was that a marketing decision? You probably would say it was if Peyton never recovered from his neck injury. That's the risk you take with any player you sign/trade for. If a player underperforms, it doesn't mean the intention of signing him was not valid.



I think you're just taking decisions that turned out to be bad football decisions and spinning them to be made solely for marketing purposes. If Tyrod wasn't garbage maybe we'd be able to make use of Clay/McCoy/Player X.

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Yes, that's what Ralph did.

This is what you're missing: The decisions that they made were ones that were easy to market, so whether or not they work on the field becomes secondary. They're still gonna make money off of it.

Of course, neither of us know exactly what their internal thought process is. For me, I have a hard time believing that giving up assets and taking a big cap hit for an RB is the best football decision. I have a hard time believing that hosing the 2016 cap to sign Clay in 2015 is the best football decision.

[Joe Fo Sho]

This is what you're missing: The decisions that they made were ones that were easy to market, so whether or not they work on the field becomes secondary. They're still gonna make money off of it.

Of course, neither of us know exactly what their internal thought process is. For me, I have a hard time believing that giving up assets and taking a big cap hit for an RB is the best football decision. I have a hard time believing that hosing the 2016 cap to sign Clay in 2015 is the best football decision.

We probably shouldn't sign anybody then, as having a full 53-man roster could be miscontrued as a marketing decision. Maybe we can trade all of our 1st round draft picks away, as those are probably the highest selling jerseys we have each year. Let all of our talented players walk without signing them, as that might increase revenue. It's the only way to make sure the moves we make are not marketing based.

[OpIv37]

We probably shouldn't sign anybody then, as having a full 53-man roster could be miscontrued as a marketing decision. Maybe we can trade all of our 1st round draft picks away, as those are probably the highest selling jerseys we have each year. Let all of our talented players walk without signing them, as that might increase revenue. It's the only way to make sure the moves we make are not marketing based.

Well ok- ignore the specific examples that I brought up and use generalized hyperbole instead.

The three biggest moves since Pegula took over were Rex, McCoy and hosing the 2016 cap to sign Clay in 2015. All three are questionable from a football perspective (and I don't just mean in hindsight- there was reason to be concerned at the time they were made). All three moves are easily marketable. Once again, we don't know the inner workings of the team and this is no smoking gun, but it's one hell of a coincidence.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Well ok- ignore the specific examples that I brought up and use generalized hyperbole instead.

The three biggest moves since Pegula took over were Rex, McCoy and hosing the 2016 cap to sign Clay in 2015. All three are questionable from a football perspective (and I don't just mean in hindsight- there was reason to be concerned at the time they were made). All three moves are easily marketable. Once again, we don't know the inner workings of the team and this is no smoking gun, but it's one hell of a coincidence.

You could argue that they are easily football based decisions as well.

[OpIv37]

You could argue that they are easily football based decisions as well.

They're 3 for 3 on marketing decisions and 0 for 3 on football ones.

And again, I don't see how giving up resources and taking a big cap hit for the position that has the shortest shelf life and is the easiest to replace constitutes being "football based." I don't see how hiring a coach who creates off the field controversy and had performance that regressed for 3 consecutive years is "football based." I don't see how hosing the 2016 cap to make big moves in 2015 is a "football based" decision.