Sammy

[Joe Fo Sho]

What they gave up for Sammy shouldn't have anything to do with how you evaluate him as a player. He's not personally responsible for the trade-up. He's good, and could be great.

This is exactly how you evaluate a bust, though. There's no such thing as a 7th round bust, because there's no expectation for greatness for that position. 1st round picks are where the 'bust' term comes from because the expectations are so high, and Sammy cost much more than a 1st round pick.

I'm not saying Sammy is a bust at all, but his worth is tied directly to his draft cost, whether he likes it or not. Sammy has only missed 4 games in his entire career, with this upcoming game being his 5th. The bust term is definitely premature.

[Forward_Lateral]

What they gave up for Sammy shouldn't have anything to do with how you evaluate him as a player. He's not personally responsible for the trade-up. He's good, and could be great.

And, by the way, every single one of the players that you mentioned are on teams that have had a worse record than the Bills since the 2014 draft. It should all translate into wins, shouldn't it?

What? What a team gives up is how you evaluate a player. A 7th round WR isn't a bust.

As for the second part of your post, I have no idea what you are trying to communicate, so you are on your own there.

[Forward_Lateral]

This is exactly how you evaluate a bust, though. There's no such thing as a 7th round bust, because there's no expectation for greatness for that position. 1st round picks are where the 'bust' term comes from because the expectations are so high, and Sammy cost much more than a 1st round pick.

I'm not saying Sammy is a bust at all, but his worth is tied directly to his draft cost, whether he likes it or not. Sammy has only missed 4 games in his entire career, with this upcoming game being his 5th. The bust term is definitely premature.

Maybe bust was the wrong terminology. I think most Bills fans, for how he was touted when they drafted him, expect a lot more production out of a #1 WR. His production is not that of a WR worthy of a top 5 pick. Sorry, it just isn't

[Mr. Pink]

The guy just recently turned 23, and he has more reception yardage than any other Bills receiver through his first two years. Dunno what else...all this with Kyle Orton, EJ Manuel, and Tyrod Taylor throwing him the ball...Tyrod, who can't seem to throw to the middle of the field too much so far.

I love this argument people make that the receivers numbers suffer because of the QB...Lee Evans put up decent years with Kelly Holcomb and JP Losman throwing him the majority of his catches. I can list a bunch of receivers who've put up better numbers than Sammy with just as much of crap at the QB position.

If you, as a receiver, are head and shoulders better than anyone in the passing offense, you'll get looks and touches. If you're not, which Sammy clearly isn't. Whether that is because of his health - since he's made of glass or the fact he really isn't as talented as the price the team paid to select him thought is a legitimate discussion to have.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Maybe bust was the wrong terminology. I think most Bills fans, for how he was touted when they drafted him, expect a lot more production out of a #1 WR. His production is not that of a WR worthy of a top 5 pick. Sorry, it just isn't

There were also people that thought it he wasn't worth trading up for because we had no one to get him the ball. That's been the biggest problem, at least I think so.

[chernobylwraiths]

Maybe bust was the wrong terminology. I think most Bills fans, for how he was touted when they drafted him, expect a lot more production out of a #1 WR. His production is not that of a WR worthy of a top 5 pick. Sorry, it just isn't

Sadly, it's difficult to expect a WR to do well if his production is ALWAYS attached to how good the guy throwing to him is and how often he is thrown to.

[feldspar]

This is exactly how you evaluate a bust, though. There's no such thing as a 7th round bust, because there's no expectation for greatness for that position. 1st round picks are where the 'bust' term comes from because the expectations are so high, and Sammy cost much more than a 1st round pick.

I'm not saying Sammy is a bust at all, but his worth is tied directly to his draft cost, whether he likes it or not. Sammy has only missed 4 games in his entire career, with this upcoming game being his 5th. The bust term is definitely premature.

Yeah, well...that's like your opinion, man.

I'd hate to be Goff right now.

You may as well put a guy in a hole and slap him in the face if everyone is expecting him to be Superman right away.

Losman cost the Bills what? 2 firsts, a second and a fifth? You're Aunt Tillie's tit? Some hump is going to call Watkins a worse pick?

If you can tell me who the Bills would have drafted had the Bills not drafted Sammy instead, there could be some kind of argument. The Bills may have drafted Aaron Rodgers had they not drafted Losman the way they did. Could be we'd have a bunch of mediocre players instead of Watkins....or as good of a receiver along with some REAL busts.

Atlanta traded WAY more to trade up to get Julio Jones than the Bills did to get Watkins...five picks, I think. The point is that there is nobody in their right mind that would rather have ALL the players the Browns got in that trade instead of Julio Jones, who got the same injury Sammy did.

Could the Bills have done something better? Yes, them along with everybody else along the line. Doesn't make Sammy a bad player in the least. He's NOT a bust. C'mon now.

[Mr. Pink]

Maybe bust was the wrong terminology. I think most Bills fans, for how he was touted when they drafted him, expect a lot more production out of a #1 WR. His production is not that of a WR worthy of a top 5 pick. Sorry, it just isn't

Bust is pretty accurate IMO

He's a guy who, based on his draft status and position, should be targeted a dozen times a game. He isn't, he never was, he never will be. That's not all on the QB as there are plenty of receivers who got a ton of targets with absolute crap throwing the ball.

[chernobylwraiths]

I love this argument people make that the receivers numbers suffer because of the QB...Lee Evans put up decent years with Kelly Holcomb and JP Losman throwing him the majority of his catches. I can list a bunch of receivers who've put up better numbers than Sammy with just as much of crap at the QB position.

If you, as a receiver, are head and shoulders better than anyone in the passing offense, you'll get looks and touches. If you're not, which Sammy clearly isn't. Whether that is because of his health - since he's made of glass or the fact he really isn't as talented as the price the team paid to select him thought is a legitimate discussion to have.

I remember him getting a lot of crap when he, or his agent, said he should be thrown to more. When they did, he did great. If he isn't targeted, he won't get numbers.

[chernobylwraiths]

Bust is pretty accurate IMO

He's a guy who, based on his draft status and position, should be targeted a dozen times a game. He isn't, he never was, he never will be. That's not all on the QB as there are plenty of receivers who got a ton of targets with absolute crap throwing the ball.

So, who are the Bills targeting instead of Sammy? All those targets have to go somewhere.

[Mr. Pink]

Sadly, it's difficult to expect a WR to do well if his production is ALWAYS attached to how good the guy throwing to him is and how often he is thrown to.

That's complete hogwash.

Roddy White was targeted 137 times in 2007 with Joey Harrington, Chris Redman and Byron Leftwich throwing him the ball.

Yes, once Matt Ryan was brought in his targets went up, but if you're that much better than the rest of the guys on your team, you'll still get looks just because there isn't an option as good.

Last year, in 13 games, Sammy was targeted 96 times. Robert Woods was targeted 80 times.

You know what that says? It says Sammy isn't head and shoulders better than the other options in the passing game, he's basically just another guy.

[SeatownBillsFan21]

Well when we traded up they show the Jags draft room. They were laughing at us. The freaking Jags are laughing at us. And they were right.

[Mr. Pink]

Back in 2007 when Lee Evans put up a nice year here, he was also targeted 137 times, next guy was Peerless Price who was targeted 78 times. This is with the awesome JP Losman throwing the football all year.

That says that Lee was head and shoulders better than Price.

Even as a rookie when Sammy was targeted 128 times, Woods was targeted 104 times.

Combine that with last year and shows that Sammy isn't that much better, if at all, than Robert Woods.

Now some of this could be because he's made of glass and is constantly hobbled or slowed down with something, but it could be due to the fact that he simply isn't as good as the front office thought he was when they drafted him.

[chernobylwraiths]

That's complete hogwash.

Roddy White was targeted 137 times in 2007 with Joey Harrington, Chris Redman and Byron Leftwich throwing him the ball.

Yes, once Matt Ryan was brought in his targets went up, but if you're that much better than the rest of the guys on your team, you'll still get looks just because there isn't an option as good.

Last year, in 13 games, Sammy was targeted 96 times. Robert Woods was targeted 80 times.

You know what that says? It says Sammy isn't head and shoulders better than the other options in the passing game, he's basically just another guy.

So, Sammy was targeted only one more time per game than Woods. I guess their stats were VERY similar then?

[chernobylwraiths]

Well when we traded up they show the Jags draft room. They were laughing at us. The freaking Jags are laughing at us. And they were right.

Yeah, they have been a great team since too.

[chernobylwraiths]

Back in 2007 when Lee Evans put up a nice year here, he was also targeted 137 times, next guy was Peerless Price who was targeted 78 times. This is with the awesome JP Losman throwing the football all year.

That says that Lee was head and shoulders better than Price.

Even as a rookie when Sammy was targeted 128 times, Woods was targeted 104 times.

Combine that with last year and shows that Sammy isn't that much better, if at all, than Robert Woods.

Now some of this could be because he's made of glass and is constantly hobbled or slowed down with something, but it could be due to the fact that he simply isn't as good as the front office thought he was when they drafted him.

So, what is the difference in their stats if they are such similar players.

My point is that they aren't targeting him enough.

[Ed]

Well it's official. Sammy has been placed on IR. Very disappointing.

[feldspar]

Well it's official. Sammy has been placed on IR. Very disappointing.

Sure is.

WTF?

[Mr. Pink]

So, what is the difference in their stats if they are such similar players.

My point is that they aren't targeting him enough.

There's a reason for it besides just poor QB play. Guys with poor QBs still get a truckload of targets and a lot more targets than any other receiver on the team if, IF, they are that much better than anyone else on the team is.

Yes, there are plays that are missed by the QB that cost him maybe a target a game, but when you look at other teams who've had a clear cut number 1 and the amount of targets they have more than who's 2nd you can't just blame the QB for the entire thing.

Some of it is on Sammy himself. Be it talent, be it the injuries, be it he's not vocal enough in the locker room, be it the QB doesn't trust him. One of those, if not a few, are likely factors in why Sammy doesn't get the looks that you think he should.

[Mr. Pink]

Well it's official. Sammy has been placed on IR. Very disappointing.

Looks like they signed Justin Hunter to replace him.

I believe a few people on here wanted the Bills to bring him before.