The NFL's Boring Product

[WagonCircler]

Re: The NFL's Boring Product

This is going send Millennials running for their safe spaces.

The ratings are down because the NFL has an NBA problem.

But everyone's afraid to say it.

Ever notice how boxing gave way to MMA?

Why do you suppose MLB is so much more popular with Latinos than African Americans?

Why are NHL fans 99% caucasian?

This is a quote from Charles Barkley: "White folks are not going to come to see a bunch of guys with tattoos, with cornrows. I'm sorry, but anyone who thinks different, they're stupid."

Do the math. It's not politically correct, but it's undeniable. It's a combination of human nature and demographic math.

In a vacuum, Kaeprnick's nonsense would have been a blip, but in the racially charged atmosphere cultivated by the let for purely political purposes, it has served as an accelerant. And watching Goodell lie down has sent many people to the exits.

[PuntKicker]

Re: The NFL's Boring Product

Lol, what? And not just at that last post but at the whole thread. The NFL MINTS MONEY. When that no longer is the case, I'll be able to read this nonsense with a straight face.

[Mr. Pink]

Re: The NFL's Boring Product

This thread only exists because the home town team has been irrelevant for almost 2 decades now.

Do you think people in Boston or NYC or Dallas or Pittsburgh or Wisconsin feel this way?

The only real problem is the absurd amount of commercials that seems to completely eliminate any flow for the game. However, when you're getting big money from the networks these things happen.



The flags aren't a big deal to me, I don't watch games and see a big play and automatically think a flag is going to come out because 9 times out of 10 it doesn't.

[Mr. Pink]

Re: The NFL's Boring Product

And now a point vs point argument...

1. Rosters aren't too small, rosters are too big. It's why you see guys like Justin Hunter, Greg Lewis just as examples getting chance after chance even though if they played 30 years ago they'd be out of the game by now. Too many teams, too many roster spaces = way too much dilution of talent. So the teams who have that stud at QB who can get it done regardless of the interchangeable parts around him are good year in and year out. There is no parity in the league at the top, there's plenty of parity in the middle though as you have a handful of dominant teams and a handful of just god awful franchises...then there's a clusterf of mediocrity in between.

2. Games are not too short. http://www.oregonlive.com/nfl/index....nger_than.html Year by year with all the stoppages that interrupt game flow as I detailed in my above post make the games last even longer and this just grows every year. Another fun article...http://qz.com/150577/an-average-nfl-...nutes-of-play/

3. Hyper sensitive PI? PI now is very rarely called. It ends up being illegal contacting or holding. Are these penalties called more times than they were in the past? Well yeah because the rules have been opened up to allow for passing offenses to succeed. If today's defensive rules existed 20-30 years ago guys like Steve Atwater, Ronnie Lott and Eric Turner would have been thrown out of the league. So it all comes down to if you'd rather watch those type of players clutching, grabbing and laying out receivers OR if you'd rather see Goodwin catch that 50+ yard TD we saw Sunday. I can guarantee that play doesn't happen in the 90s NFL as Goodwin would likely not be in the NFL as he'd have issues ever getting separation from anyone with how hard he'd be jammed and grabbed.

4 and 5 I don't disagree with. I think the NFL should go back to no instant replay at all, the calls missed? The calls missed. It happens. Refs are human and everyone makes mistakes. Plus, again, it runs the flow of the game. You get into the game and see the play and think he totally got his feet down in bounds, they show the replay on TV or the jumbotron and it's plan as day. Next thing you know it's going up to the booth for 3 minutes to figure out something that should take 3 seconds.

6. Is a total nonpoint. Don't want to hear political stuff attached? Don't listen when they talk about players kneeling. Of course everyone loved the political angle and agenda during SB XXV didn't they?

7. The No Fun League has existed for around 30 years now...this isn't new nor anything to complain about in today's game.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Re: The NFL's Boring Product

I'm laughing at the idea that the NBA is putting on a better product. Yeah, if you are a fan of one of the 4-5 stacked super teams. When futures betting opened, the Warriors were - 150 to win the championship, whereas you could get the ENTIRE FIELD at +120.

To adapt Mr. Pink's point, if Buffalo had an nba franchise it would be a disaster. Small market basketball teams are frequently losing talent to bigger media markets. Cleveland only managed to put together a title team because one of the best players of all time was born in their backyard and made it his personal mission. Then you have teams that have been intentionally tanking for close to 5 seasons.

[Mr. Pink]

Re: The NFL's Boring Product

I'm laughing at the idea that the NBA is putting on a better product. Yeah, if you are a fan of one of the 4-5 stacked super teams. When futures betting opened, the Warriors were - 150 to win the championship, whereas you could get the ENTIRE FIELD at +120.

To adapt Mr. Pink's point, if Buffalo had an nba franchise it would be a disaster. Small market basketball teams are frequently losing talent to bigger media markets. Cleveland only managed to put together a title team because one of the best players of all time was born in their backyard and made it his personal mission. Then you have teams that have been intentionally tanking for close to 5 seasons.

On the point of the NBA, that's how you have to get good in todays league. There's no benefit to be a middling team as every year there is one or two distinct difference makers in the draft. So teams who could maybe pull out 30 wins don't bother and would rather win like 12 to get that elite talent. It takes more than one of those elite talents, so you see teams in the tank for multiple years to acquire talent.

Then went you snatch up that kind of talent with the NBA's convoluted salary cap rules, bird rights, early bird rights, exceptions, you can then pay 2-4 of your own homegrown talent anything you want up to max salaries while going out and getting other pieces and paying them ridiculous salaries too. It takes that elite talent up front though to entice other elite talent to jump to your team. Without Kyrie and the trade chips for Love, does LeBron come back to Cleveland? It's an interesting question and I'm not sure if you can give a definitive answer. I am pretty sure he wouldn't want to come back to a team that had a roster that looked like the 06 Cavs though.

Finally, in the NBA, you need an owner who is willing to pay all that money out. To spend not only to the cap but well passed it. The Cavs can be assembled the way they currently are because Dan Gilbert is willing not only to pay to the cap but well passed it. So well passed it that the Cavs have the highest salary in the NBA and are looking about 30 million in luxury tax penalty this year.

It doesn't really have to do with small market vs large market, it's all on the willingness of an owner to go out and spend like a drunken sailor IF his talent evaluators have done a good job grabbing talent during the lean years.

[YardRat]

Re: The NFL's Boring Product

Yeah, the NBA still sucks balls...unlike 20-30-40 years during the Bird-Jordan-Bad Boys era and when the Braves were in town. I often moan about losing the Braves, but considering the state of the pro game even if they were still here I doubt I'd pay nearly as much attention to them as I do the Bills.

[BillsOwnAll]

Re: The NFL's Boring Product

I actually "retired" from fantasy football because I can't watch it anymore. The NFL is terrible. There is a penalty and sometimes its extremely late.

No one knows what a catch is anymore. Enough said there.

The ultra pussifaction of a qb. If your tackling him and GRAZE his helmet... 15 yards first down.

It's to QB dependent too. Only 3-4 teams can actually win the super bowl every year. No reason Big Ben Brady or manning should make 12 outta 13 Super Bowls or something redic like that for a league that promises parity.

[swiper]

Re: The NFL's Boring Product

scoring is WAY down so your point is invalid. WAY DOWN. The problem is teams can't score anymore. 3-3- is becoming the norm not 50-40.

Scoring is way down because the players and the coaches (outside of Belichick) all suck.

[Mace]

Re: The NFL's Boring Product

Maybe it's just me, I still love the games, watch as much football as I can. Love the play by play, the color, the ex players, even the halftime sets and ex coaches, aging announcers and theme music. I love it a lot more when the Bills are winning, but I've been watching these teams for decades, they all bring back memories of players and moments and times spent watching them.

I truly enjoy the NFL. While I have some gripes about it, they're never enough to sour me. I even watch most blowouts to the end, will always find players I enjoy, and plays that please me. It's not much different now than it was when I was watching Len Dawson lead the Chiefs on a grainy black & white as a kid, or Unitas, Starr, etc.

A thread like this pops up once a season, and I always say the same stuff, pointing out I used to watch every sport, but remained hooked on football. I used to love baseball, can't watch it anymore for no reason I can say, same with basketball, hockey, soccer, even lacrosse. I figure that's just how my interests changed during life. If you don't enjoy it, scale back your emotion in it. People evolve, so do their interests. My gram used to tell me, once things change, they never go back to the same, no point in pretending they will. That about covered everything I've ever seen change.

I don't mean to be harsh, but if you're not enjoying something, don't pursue it, for your own benefit. I think most people are still enjoying it, they're just aggravated by the Bills year after year. It gets cumulative, and once you get aggravated everything annoying stands out much more clearly. When things go well, the annoying things are just background noise.

10 wins a year, playoffs and contending status, and everyone rediscovers their love of the game. Sure would be nice if it happened though.

[sahlensguy]

Re: The NFL's Boring Product

Yeah, the NBA still sucks balls...unlike 20-30-40 years during the Bird-Jordan-Bad Boys era and when the Braves were in town. I often moan about losing the Braves, but considering the state of the pro game even if they were still here I doubt I'd pay nearly as much attention to them as I do the Bills.

I live in the Utah Jazz basketball market and pay much more attention to the Jazz than the Bills. Both clubs have lived a similar fate. Both their glory years and have wallowing in mediocrity ever since, placating the rabid fan bases.

For me though I find following the hopeful crop of new talent each year, much more enjoyable and accessible. There is one and done talent, four year talent and the wild card of them all is foreign talent to follow. Euro league games are on the internet. Olympic basketball can be interesting when arm chair scouting talent. The draft thread on the Jazz forum reaches in excess of 1,000 pages, and starts two years before the fact.

What's cool with NBA teams is that one late round pick can change a team quicker than one late round NFL player not named Tom Brady can effect a football team (Rudy Gobert). There is more hope in that.

[Mace]

Re: The NFL's Boring Product

I live in the Utah Jazz basketball market and pay much more attention to the Jazz than the Bills. Both clubs have lived a similar fate. Both their glory years and have wallowing in mediocrity ever since, placating the rabid fan bases.

For me though I find following the hopeful crop of new talent each year, much more enjoyable and accessible. There is one and done talent, four year talent and the wild card of them all is foreign talent to follow. Euro league games are on the internet. Olympic basketball can be interesting when arm chair scouting talent. The draft thread on the Jazz forum reaches in excess of 1,000 pages, and starts two years before the fact.

What's cool with NBA teams is that one late round pick can change a team quicker than one late round NFL player not named Tom Brady can effect a football team (Rudy Gobert). There is more hope in that.

Basketball is way faster paced, in talent development, pace of game, franchise turnaround where hockey is slower, younger kids, longer cycles. Football is in the middle.

But in basketball, within 2 years, you usually know whether a general player is something special, a variation roleplayer, or a variation of roster fodder pretty quick. In hockey, within 2 years you're looking to see how the player is in 4. In football, within 2 years you generally know how the guys whole career will go (no disrespect to Lorenzo Alexander, who isn't the norm). The roleplayers and roster fodder become generally interchangeable, a special player is more quickly limited by those supporting him, more players on the field more constantly become more vulnerable to scrutiny weekly.

Basketball, well you have less and more fast paced, with keener momentary scrutiny, but they shine or fail faster.

I always figured basketball is best for short attention span and quick result, hockey and baseball are slowest even if you think you have a quick result, and football is just an acquired patience where you're either going to like the game or not by your tolerance for unending cycles of dabbling with chemistry.

That's not a slam on the other sports, football just has 44 players interacting per cycle of possessions, giving you at least 352 player interactions on 2 normal possessions without a first down or substitutions. If you get some amusement from the units and players themselves, you stay amused, but if you're looking for grand results from those 352 interactions it becomes tedious quick, imho.

[Turf]

Re: The NFL's Boring Product

I'm surprised this turned into an NBA thread.

The only reason I brought up the NBA is because the receivers run Stevie Johnson type routes. 5 yards, little head fake and catch and run. It OK for basketball, but it isn't football.

[Mr. Pink]

Re: The NFL's Boring Product

I'm surprised this turned into an NBA thread.

The only reason I brought up the NBA is because the receivers run Stevie Johnson type routes. 5 yards, little head fake and catch and run. It OK for basketball, but it isn't football.

I have no idea how old you are but that's been the norm of the NFL since the early 80s and the West Coast Offense 49ers. It's a copycat league. Now instead of being strict WCOs, teams employ the spread and do the same thing.

You don't need a strong running game in the league anymore, you only need a pinpoint accurate QB who can throw 5 yard slants and then let the WR do the work. That play has taken care over, for the most part, of the old 4 yards and a cloud of dust style.

Meanwhile, here in Buffalo, we have a QB and OC who don't even believe in that play. We're a franchise stuck in 1970s winning football style, the problem is it didn't win in 1986 let alone 2016.

I think part of the disdain many have for the sport in general is that the hometown franchise hasn't advanced with the times and has a fanbase that still thinks power running is still a recipe for success.

[The Beef]

Re: The NFL's Boring Product

Gotta comment on the NBA, the product is very good to where it was 15 years ago. There's a lot of HOF talent in the league right now. Also LeBron is great for the league. Fringe fans love GREAT players. They will tune in to watch Lebron. Peyton had the same effect in Indy. Bandwagon fans in every city.

Now the NFL. Player safety comes first sure, but hits like the one Landry made DOES draw fans. People love to see someone get knocked out. You think people watch UFC PPV's to see someone win on points because they're technically superior? No. They want to see someone get knocked the **** out.

The crackdown on celebrations. As a kid I LOVED Deion Sanders. The high step, the trademark touchdown dance. Dude was electric. Same with Atlanta and the Dirty Bird. Chad Johnson and his plethora of TD celebrations. Younger viewers love that ****. Yes everyone appreciated Barry Sanders been there done that, but Stevie's Plaxico Shot In Leg celebration was FANTASTIC. It's an entertainment league, why are you limiting the entertainment aspect?

This is never mentioned, but the Red Zone channel is terrible for the league IMO. Why watch a game when you just get to see every important play across the league within minutes on Sunday?

Finally, the camera angle is so out dated. It's great for run plays, it's no longer a run first league. You don't see the play develop, you see the QB and then the tackle. If anything on 3rd downs they should switch to an angle behind the QB.