There is a lot of QB stupidity going on around here.

[Yasgur's Farm]

They're 100℅ relevant... It's what current reality is... And the deadline is approaching rapidly. It's reported that TT is not receptive to a new deal.

[Mace]

The whole QB situation is dismal, damned if you do, damned if you don't, and it's system related.

This offseason I've read that the only relatively successful starter the Bills ever developed on their own from a rookie was Joe Ferguson (Kelly had his USFL exp). The ONLY. Yeesh.

I just read somewhere today, the only QB trades that resulted in a championship in the relatively modern era were Favre to GB, and Young to SF. Pretty rare.

We have a 23 year WR coach as a QB coach and his assistant was also a WR coach. That's not conducive to developing a rookie.

FA options are older brittle guys or underachievers from even better passing systems.

Realistically, it looks dismal. Tyrod is least worse. Doesn't make me feel great, but does anyone really think they could bottom out successfully even if they try to ? Or if they do, that they could actually successfully rebuild for years ?

I'm almost figuring it doesn't matter what they do, it won't work out "right" no matter what your version of "right" is.

[The Jokeman]

Picking up a guy like Nick Foles, drafting a QB within the first 3-4 rounds, and grooming him while Foles starts is a decent option, I think. I even think somebody like Hoyer would put up better numbers than Taylor with their run game. For far less money.

This is my ideal plan and you mentioned the two veteran QBs I'd target in free agency.

[YardRat]

Since 2000, Kurt Warner (twice, once each with Rams and Cardinals), Trent Dilfer, Kerry Collins, Brad Johnson, Rich Gannon, Matt Hasselbeck, Drew Brees, and Peyton Manning have led their team to the Super Bowl after being acquired, and I believe they were all free agents.

[OpIv37]

In the end, this is just another example of this FO's mismanagement. They put themselves in a situation where there is no good option, and the only thing to do is figure out which option is least bad.

[YardRat]

In the end, this is just another example of this FO's mismanagement. They put themselves in a situation where there is no good option, and the only thing to do is figure out which option is least bad.

Management had three options last off-season...1)Sign Tyrod to a long term big money extension (like Fitz...IMO bad idea...ironically, the same option they basically have this year), 2)Let Taylor walk for nothing in return, get a scruff FA to start or EJ (ewwww...bad idea...ironically, the same option they have this year, substitute Jones for EJ), and 3)Sign Taylor to a deal that rewards him if he succeeds but allows the team to cut him if he doesn't with very little financial and cap ramifications (only doable again if Taylor is willing to re-negotiate). Essentially, the 'stupid' contract did nothing except keep Taylor around and give him another season to prove he is worth a long term commitment and the organization is in the same boat this off season as it was last. Signing Taylor to a 'prove it' contract was the best option of the three at the time.

[OpIv37]

Management had three options last off-season...1)Sign Tyrod to a long term big money extension (like Fitz...IMO bad idea...ironically, the same option they basically have this year), 2)Let Taylor walk for nothing in return, get a scruff FA to start or EJ (ewwww...bad idea...ironically, the same option they have this year, substitute Jones for EJ), and 3)Sign Taylor to a deal that rewards him if he succeeds but allows the team to cut him if he doesn't with very little financial and cap ramifications (only doable again if Taylor is willing to re-negotiate). Essentially, the 'stupid' contract did nothing except keep Taylor around and give him another season to prove he is worth a long term commitment and the organization is in the same boat this off season as it was last. Signing Taylor to a 'prove it' contract was the best option of the three at the time.

They already had Tyrod signed last off-season. The only option should have been to let him play out the season, and pay him if he did well and let him walk if he didn't. Instead, they repeated the Fitz mistake and paid him too early because they gambled that he would do well and they would save money over what they would have had to pay him after a productive year. Well, they lost the gamble and here we are.

And FYI, this isn't hindsight. There's a whole thread of me getting trashed for not liking the contract from back when it was first signed. Turns out I was right.

[Mace]

Since 2000, Kurt Warner (twice, once each with Rams and Cardinals), Trent Dilfer, Kerry Collins, Brad Johnson, Rich Gannon, Matt Hasselbeck, Drew Brees, and Peyton Manning have led their team to the Super Bowl after being acquired, and I believe they were all free agents.

They were indeed all FA's, but I'm not sure who you see that's comparable to them in FA this year. The only relatively healthy one is Cousins, and he's going to be a big commitment if he even hits the market. The Bills don't have a dominant defense which helped a bunch of those (Gannon, Dilfer, Johnson), and the crop doesn't have the same pre-fa chops as Brees, Hasselbeck, Manning, Collins. Warner was kind of the rare bird. I don't even see a Dilfer, Johnson or Gannon out there.

It's hoping a blind shot in the dark will work out, when you can do the same with the draft. Blind shots in the dark have not treated this franchise well.

[Mouldsie]

Tank

[YardRat]

They already had Tyrod signed last off-season. The only option should have been to let him play out the season, and pay him if he did well and let him walk if he didn't. Instead, they repeated the Fitz mistake and paid him too early because they gambled that he would do well and they would save money over what they would have had to pay him after a productive year. Well, they lost the gamble and here we are.

And FYI, this isn't hindsight. There's a whole thread of me getting trashed for not liking the contract from back when it was first signed. Turns out I was right.

My bad, I had forgotten Tyrod's original deal was for more than one season.

[YardRat]

They were indeed all FA's, but I'm not sure who you see that's comparable to them in FA this year. The only relatively healthy one is Cousins, and he's going to be a big commitment if he even hits the market. The Bills don't have a dominant defense which helped a bunch of those (Gannon, Dilfer, Johnson), and the crop doesn't have the same pre-fa chops as Brees, Hasselbeck, Manning, Collins. Warner was kind of the rare bird. I don't even see a Dilfer, Johnson or Gannon out there.

It's hoping a blind shot in the dark will work out, when you can do the same with the draft. Blind shots in the dark have not treated this franchise well.

I think Foles and Cutler would be the closest to be comparable to a Dilfer or Hasselbeck, but I also don't see any of them and think 'Hey, this guy could lead us to the big game'.

[Skooby]

I stand corrected on the $10 million cap hit. I swear I read it somewhere but I just looked around and I can't find anything stating that number.

However, if they keep him this year, his 2018 dead cap hit becomes $18 million if cut, so it's basically a two year commitment. What a ****ty contract.

And I stand by my comments that throwing money at Romo or Cutler is stupid.

/ thread. We aren't paying Tyrod squat and we sat him the last game to spare him from a major injury so we could cut him.

[X-Era]

First, let's talk numbers. Tyrod makes $15.9 million, but it's $10 million in dead cap if we cut him. So, we met less than $6 million. Even if we find a journeyman that we can put on a backloaded contract and get his salary to $2 million, that's only an additional $4 million against the cap. It helps but it's not enough to make or break the off-season.

Second, the options available are terrible and expensive. Romo is a choke artist who can't stay healthy, and only has a year or two left in him anyway (he'll be 37 when camp starts). Cutler is a head case and a locker rom cancer who hasn't been to the playoffs in 8 years. I'm appalled that anyone would suggest him.

Oh, and Romo's cap hit is $24.7 million and Cutler's is $16 million. Granted, I'm sure they'd find some way to get that down if they were to go after either one of those guys, but it's ludicrous to think that one of those guys minus several million in cap is better than Taylor with more cap to fix the other holes. Don't confuse "better" with "good enough to win."

Finally, I've heard people suggest that Cardale start. The guy simply isn't ready and he'll get shell-shocked. It's really just a terrible idea to start him at this point. I wouldn't mind seeing them work him in during certain situations, but it's unfair to him and the team to put that much pressure on someone with so little experience.

I'm not particularly keen on the idea of keeping Taylor but so far, all the options people are touting instead are worse.

Couldn't agree more. The best option this year is Tyrod.

1. His 20th ranked cap hit is reasonable for a seasoned starter
2. The scheme may change the dynamic of his play
3. He's a known quantity. There isn't any guarantee that a journeyman won't cost more and end up playing worse
4. The draft is weak at the top this year but there are several intriguing guys on days 2 and 3. No reason not to add another draftee to the mix to compete
5. Dennison knows him and his play

All that said, I can see the Bills moving on. All new staff, all new schemes, and new head coaches usually like there guy. Furthermore, I have a feeling Whaley isn't as high on him. Just a gut.

[X-Era]

They already had Tyrod signed last off-season. The only option should have been to let him play out the season, and pay him if he did well and let him walk if he didn't. Instead, they repeated the Fitz mistake and paid him too early because they gambled that he would do well and they would save money over what they would have had to pay him after a productive year. Well, they lost the gamble and here we are.

And FYI, this isn't hindsight. There's a whole thread of me getting trashed for not liking the contract from back when it was first signed. Turns out I was right.

Wait. The contract was a good contract or we wouldn't be able to pick up his option at all. How do we know Tyrod wouldn't simply hit the market to see what he could get paid? Personally I think Tyrod would be paid more by another team right now. Instead we locked him up to us, at the 20th ranked cap hit next year at QB, and are sitting here with the choice to keep him or walk.

The contract gave us a choice. No contract would have given HIM the choice. And he absolutely isn't worth the franchise tag.

[Albany,n.y.]

The whole QB situation is dismal, damned if you do, damned if you don't, and it's system related.

This offseason I've read that the only relatively successful starter the Bills ever developed on their own from a rookie was Joe Ferguson (Kelly had his USFL exp). The ONLY. Yeesh.

I just read somewhere today, the only QB trades that resulted in a championship in the relatively modern era were Favre to GB, and Young to SF. Pretty rare.

We have a 23 year WR coach as a QB coach and his assistant was also a WR coach. That's not conducive to developing a rookie.

FA options are older brittle guys or underachievers from even better passing systems.

Realistically, it looks dismal. Tyrod is least worse. Doesn't make me feel great, but does anyone really think they could bottom out successfully even if they try to ? Or if they do, that they could actually successfully rebuild for years ?

I'm almost figuring it doesn't matter what they do, it won't work out "right" no matter what your version of "right" is.

You forgot Lamonica, who the Bills developed & then traded away. They also developed the best backup QB in team history, Frank Reich, whose best years were wasted backing up a HOF QB.
QBs who won SBs with teams other than the ones who drafted them include: Dawson, Plunkett, Williams, Warner (undrafted, cut by GB as a rookie), Brees, P. Manning and 2 #1 picks traded before the start of their careers after being drafted by a team they never played for-Elway & E. Manning.

[Bill Cody]

In the end, this is just another example of this FO's mismanagement. They put themselves in a situation where there is no good option, and the only thing to do is figure out which option is least bad.

Ok so I'm still not clear where you stand on this now that you know the cap hit is 3m not 10. Saying there's not good option is obvious, no news there. But a 3m cap hit isn't bad. Struggling to find the point of this thread.

[justasportsfan]

Wait. The contract was a good contract or we wouldn't be able to pick up his option at all. How do we know Tyrod wouldn't simply hit the market to see what he could get paid? Personally I think Tyrod would be paid more by another team right now. Instead we locked him up to us, at the 20th ranked cap hit next year at QB, and are sitting here with the choice to keep him or walk.

The contract gave us a choice. No contract would have given HIM the choice. And he absolutely isn't worth the franchise tag.

It was a good option if Tyrod showed us how good or bad he really was. The worse situation to happen with that option happened. He was somewhere in the middle . Not good enough to get what he will get if we take the option and yet he's not bad enough that we can simply drop him and find an easy replacement.

[Kenny]

It was a good option if Tyrod showed us how good or bad he really was. The worse situation to happen with that option happened. He was somewhere in the middle . Not good enough to get what he will get if we take the option and yet he's not bad enough that we can simply drop him and find an easy replacement.

True... but at least we're not Washington. Now that's a true damned if you do / damned if you dont situation.

[OpIv37]

Ok so I'm still not clear where you stand on this now that you know the cap hit is 3m not 10. Saying there's not good option is obvious, no news there. But a 3m cap hit isn't bad. Struggling to find the point of this thread.

Well the point is that people are making some really bad suggestions regarding how to handle the QB situation. If someone doesn't like Tyrod, fine, but suggesting Cutler, Romo or Cardale is just plain stupid.

And I think the best thing to do now would be cut Taylor and go with someone like Foles. I don't think Foles is better but Taylor has an $18.5 million dead cap figure next season, so we'd be stuck with him in '18 even if he completely blows this coming season.

[Bill Cody]

Well the point is that people are making some really bad suggestions regarding how to handle the QB situation. If someone doesn't like Tyrod, fine, but suggesting Cutler, Romo or Cardale is just plain stupid.

And I think the best thing to do now would be cut Taylor and go with someone like Foles. I don't think Foles is better but Taylor has an $18.5 million dead cap figure next season, so we'd be stuck with him in '18 even if he completely blows this coming season.

ok so you've changed your mind, you agree he should be cut. Be careful about scolding people about stupidity when you're now admitting you didn't know the facts yourself.