There is a lot of QB stupidity going on around here.

[tomz]

Kelly had a few years of 'development' in Buffalo before he really started to get it. If I recall, his first year they were something like 4-12. And he was throwing tons of interceptions etc.

[Mace]

You forgot Lamonica, who the Bills developed & then traded away. They also developed the best backup QB in team history, Frank Reich, whose best years were wasted backing up a HOF QB.
QBs who won SBs with teams other than the ones who drafted them include: Dawson, Plunkett, Williams, Warner (undrafted, cut by GB as a rookie), Brees, P. Manning and 2 #1 picks traded before the start of their careers after being drafted by a team they never played for-Elway & E. Manning.

Ok, the only successful starting QB the Bills developed for themselves from a rookie, who lasted more than a couple seasons, who started more than 4 games for them was Ferguson. That still stands out ridiculously in 57 seasons of franchise history. Developing a good backup means nothing. It's a simple irrefutable statement that the franchise has been incapable of finding and developing QB's from rookies through 57 seasons, some 17 head coaches and some 12 GM's.

The rest of your post just repeats what other people said in regard to relatively recent. The FA & trade QB's were listed before with the modern era particularly identified, well, as the "modern" era, not guys more than 27 years ago when the game was different.

[Night Train]

Kelly had a few years of 'development' in Buffalo before he really started to get it. If I recall, his first year they were something like 4-12. And he was throwing tons of interceptions etc.

Even in his good years, he threw INT's...but at least we tried to throw the ball !

[Mace]

Kelly had a few years of 'development' in Buffalo before he really started to get it. If I recall, his first year they were something like 4-12. And he was throwing tons of interceptions etc.

Still didn't come here as a genuine rookie.

[tomz]

Fair. But his formative training was with marchibroda. And yes, we weren't afraid to chuck it. I too cringe watching Tyrod and the preceding ball-patters. They'll never get it without a few mistakes.

[Mace]

Fair. But his formative training was with marchibroda. And yes, we weren't afraid to chuck it. I too cringe watching Tyrod and the preceding ball-patters. They'll never get it without a few mistakes.

Can't agree. His formative training was probably in his first 1,154 pro pass attempts in Mouse Davis' run and shoot for the Houston Gamblers, then he spent a year before the Bills hired Marchibroda as QB coach. So before Marchibroda met Kelly, Kelly already had 1,015 completions in 1,634 attempts for 105 TD's and 62 Int's as a pro QB.

First two years with Marchibroda (as QB coach), Kelly only had 34 td's to 28 int's. Kelly ignited when Marchibroda became OC in 1989 and came up with the K-Gun to build around him.

I wouldn't say we developed Kelly, and he still wasn't a rookie with 1,154 pro pass attempts for 83 td's and 45 int's in a run and shoot offense when he came here, which still leads back to Ferguson being the only QB the franchise has ever developed for itself from a rookie through successful starting career.

[stuckincincy]

Ok, the only successful starting QB the Bills developed for themselves from a rookie, who lasted more than a couple seasons, who started more than 4 games for them was Ferguson. That still stands out ridiculously in 57 seasons of franchise history. Developing a good backup means nothing. It's a simple irrefutable statement that the franchise has been incapable of finding and developing QB's from rookies through 57 seasons, some 17 head coaches and some 12 GM's.

I note that James Harris, who had 103 attempts in his last season with BUF, went to the Rams where he got them to the playoffs 3 consecutive years. Sigh...

[jamze132]

First, let's talk numbers. Tyrod makes $15.9 million, but it's $10 million in dead cap if we cut him. So, we met less than $6 million. Even if we find a journeyman that we can put on a backloaded contract and get his salary to $2 million, that's only an additional $4 million against the cap. It helps but it's not enough to make or break the off-season.

Second, the options available are terrible and expensive. Romo is a choke artist who can't stay healthy, and only has a year or two left in him anyway (he'll be 37 when camp starts). Cutler is a head case and a locker rom cancer who hasn't been to the playoffs in 8 years. I'm appalled that anyone would suggest him.

Oh, and Romo's cap hit is $24.7 million and Cutler's is $16 million. Granted, I'm sure they'd find some way to get that down if they were to go after either one of those guys, but it's ludicrous to think that one of those guys minus several million in cap is better than Taylor with more cap to fix the other holes. Don't confuse "better" with "good enough to win."

Finally, I've heard people suggest that Cardale start. The guy simply isn't ready and he'll get shell-shocked. It's really just a terrible idea to start him at this point. I wouldn't mind seeing them work him in during certain situations, but it's unfair to him and the team to put that much pressure on someone with so little experience.

I'm not particularly keen on the idea of keeping Taylor but so far, all the options people are touting instead are worse.

Couldn't agree more. Tyrod put up major points last year. Look at our points made per season and you'll find one season by Flutie where we put up more points than Tyrod did last year.

[tomz]

Thanks for clarifying!

[Joe Fo Sho]

Couldn't agree more. Tyrod put up major points last year. Look at our points made per season and you'll find one season by Flutie where we put up more points than Tyrod did last year.

Imagine how many points this team could have had if they weren't being hindered by the 30th ranked passing attack in the NFL that averaged a whopping 1.1 TD/game. It's almost as if our 32 non-passing TDs played a significant role in how many points our team scored this year.

[Thurmal]

Imagine how many points this team could have had if they weren't being hindered by the 30th ranked passing attack in the NFL that averaged a whopping 1.1 TD/game. It's almost as if our 32 non-passing TDs played a significant role in how many points our team scored this year.

I can't go over how many people here overlook that. Unless Taylor was routinely going to the locker room and changing into a #25 MCCOY jersey, he doesn't deserve very much credit at all for the offensive production.

[justasportsfan]

Simply put, under Tyrod we didn't have a passing game that opened up the run.

On the flip side, having the a great run game means nothing to the passing game when you have a qb who is an average passer at best who cannot take advantage against teams that play the run.

[swiper]

James Harris was one of the most horrid QBs in history. Ole 'Chicken Wing' Harris with the awkward side cocked chicken-wing throwing motion. So glad the Rams took that crap.

[YardRat]

Ok, the only successful starting QB the Bills developed for themselves from a rookie, who lasted more than a couple seasons, who started more than 4 games for them was Ferguson. That still stands out ridiculously in 57 seasons of franchise history. Developing a good backup means nothing. It's a simple irrefutable statement that the franchise has been incapable of finding and developing QB's from rookies through 57 seasons, some 17 head coaches and some 12 GM's.

The rest of your post just repeats what other people said in regard to relatively recent. The FA & trade QB's were listed before with the modern era particularly identified, well, as the "modern" era, not guys more than 27 years ago when the game was different.

There are some teams that have never drafted and developed a successful QB from Day 1, like Kansas City. Technically Denver also, but the trade did give them Elway as a rookie.

[Mace]

There are some teams that have never drafted and developed a successful QB from Day 1, like Kansas City. Technically Denver also, but the trade did give them Elway as a rookie.

That's dandy if it works. KC is 447-409-12 for franchise history, Denver 465-393-10. The Bills however, are 400-460-8 which kind of leads me down the "try something else like developing a QB because this is ridiculous" path.

[Thurmal]

There are some teams that have never drafted and developed a successful QB from Day 1, like Kansas City. Technically Denver also, but the trade did give them Elway as a rookie.

Kansas City, I believe, has not had a game won by a QB they drafted since 1987 -- Todd Blackledge. That is unbelievable.

[stuckincincy]

[QUOTE=Swiper;4306164]James Harris was one of the most horrid QBs in history. Ole 'Chicken Wing' Harris with the awkward side cocked chicken-wing throwing motion. So glad the Rams took that crap.[/QUOTE

Huh? In 3 seasons with the LA Rams ('74, '75, '76) He started 27 games. Over that span, the Ram's 3-season record was 32-9-1, making the playoffs all three seasons.

The Rams gladly took that crap.

[Mace]

Kansas City, I believe, has not had a game won by a QB they drafted since 1987 -- Todd Blackledge. That is unbelievable.

It absolutely is and I'd feel a lot worse for them if they weren't 62-50 since 2010 with 4 playoff appearances while we have been 46-66 without any.

[stuckincincy]

It absolutely is and I'd feel a lot worse for them if they weren't 62-50 since 2010 with 4 playoff appearances while we have been 46-66 without any.

CLE still leads in the QB merry-go-round derby, but IIRC, BUF has surpassed them in HC changes...

[Arm of Harm]

I would argue that the stupidity at the QB position begins at One Bills Drive. For years the Bills have tried to cut corners at the QB position, typically investing far less (in terms of first round draft picks) there than they've invested in positions like RB or DB. On the relatively rare occasions when they've drafted a QB in the first round, it's usually a guy with great physical tools but subpar accuracy and/or decision-making. Guys like Losman and Manuel. The combination of under-allocating draft-day resources and foolishly using those draft day resources which were allocated is why the Bills haven't drafted a real QB since 1983. (Over 30 years ago.) It's no coincidence that the Bills haven't been to the playoffs in almost 20 years.

Right now the Bills are facing twin droughts. The playoff drought and the QB drought. Several consecutive Bills front offices were responsible for these twin droughts; and each of those front offices really wanted (wants) job security. To achieve which, they seek Band-Aid solutions at QB. Note that none of these solutions have any benefit for us as fans. They are not stepping stones towards a Bills Super Bowl win. They are merely intended to provide job security for whichever marginally competent Bills front office happens to be keeping us out of the Super Bowl at the time. Tyrod Taylor is merely the most recent addition to this series of Band Aid solutions. He is the successor to Kyle Orton, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Kelly Holcomb, Drew Bledsoe, and any other Bills QB capable of playing well enough to create job security for the front office, without putting us into any kind of realistic conversation about the Super Bowl.

It is pointless to argue about whether Tyrod Taylor is a better or worse Band Aid solution than, say, Jay Cutler or Tony Romo. If we are discussing things in those terms, we're just spinning our wheels.

If the problem is going to be solved, Step 1 needs to be for Pegula to install a Bills' front office which will avoid the two QB-related sins described above. We already know that this Bills front office can't evaluate QB talent, because they're the ones responsible for the Manuel pick. The replacement front office needs to place more emphasis on a QB's decision-making and accuracy than on his physical tools. Once the right front office is put in place, then Step 2 will be for it to obtain a long-term answer at QB.