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Overview:*That's right. Bart Starr. The greatest quarterback in the history of the game.
Sit down and take notes:
History has done a grave disservice to the legacy of Starr, the 17th-round draft pick out of pre-Bear Bryant Alabama who turned into the most clutch and most cruelly efficient passing assassin of his or any other generation.
History remembers Starr's legendary coach, and the bevy of Hall of Fame talent that surrounded him. It forgets that Starr was Lombardi's second in command, a tremendous big-game performer, and that the Packers of the 1960s would have been just another team without the prolific Starr as their beloved on-field leader. Instead, they won five NFL championships, with Starr at the helm of every single one of those title teams, while he crafted an NFL-record 9-1 postseason mark. The rings say it all: Starr is the only quarterback in history who has one for every finger on his throwing hand.
And even if you listen to teammates today, they make it pretty clear that they would have fallen on a grenade for Starr. Leadership is an elemental piece of quarterbacking – probably more important than gaudy passing stats. And that love his teammates had for their field general is an incredible sign of his leadership.
But forget, for a moment, the team accomplishments and the "intangibles" of leadership.
If you want to talk passing and statistics, we'll put Starr up against anybody. Anybody.
He led the NFL in passer rating five times. Johnny Unitas led the league in passer rating just twice. Ditto Joe Montana. Only Steve Young surpassed Starr's mark (six).
And, lest we forget, Starr was the best postseason passer in NFL history, as evidenced by his record 104.8 playoff passer rating and 1.41 percent interception rate, also a postseason record (CHFF readers are well aware of the importance of not throwing picks in the playoffs). Starr played in an era when 80 was a decent passer rating. Yet he still performed more efficiently in the playoffs than folks such as Montana, Brady, Manning, Marino, Young and ... well, anybody, ever.
There's a cause and effect here, folks: NFL's greatest dynasty, only winners of three-straight title games, and a record 9-1 postseason mark. And there, underlying it all, is Starr with his postseason passing records. The two are intricately intertwined.
History also remembers Starr's Packers as a great running team, and that's certainly true of their earlier years. But the truth is that they typically passed the ball more effectively than they ran it, especially during their run of three straight, when they were a below-average running team.
In their 1965 championship season, the Packers were 11th in the 14-team league with an average of 3.4 yards per rushing attempt. They were second in the league, with an average of 8.2 yards per passing attempt.
In their 1966 championship season, the Packers were 14th in the 15-team league, with an average of 3.5 yards per rushing attempt. They were first in the league, with an average of 8.9 yards per passing attempt.
In their 1967 championship season, the Packers were*4th in the 16-team league, with an average of 4.0 yards per rushing attempt. They*were first in the league, with an*average of 8.3 yards per passing attempt (Starr himself that season averaged 8.7 YPA).
Starr averaged a remarkable 7.85 YPA over the course of his entire career,*the 8th-best mark in history, and better than that of a slate of quarterbacks who are generally regarded as the best passers in history, including Dan Marino (7.37), Joe Montana (7.52), Roger Staubach (7.67), Dan Fouts (7.68), Sonny Jurgensen (7.56), Fran Tarkenton (7.27), Y.A. Tittle (7.52), Terry Bradshaw (7.17) and Joe Namath (7.35).
Six times in the 1960s, Starr surpassed 8.2 YPA for a season. To put that into context, Peyton Manning has surpassed 8.2 YPA just twice in his brilliant 10-year career.
And, if you want drama, don't forget that Starr*scored the winning TD in the Ice Bowl, probably the most famous game in NFL history. Sure, Montana led his team 92 yards for the game-winning score in Super Bowl XXIII. But he did it on a 68-degree night in Miami. Turn down the thermostat by 86 degrees (it was 18-below in the fourth quarter of the Ice Bowl) and you begin to approximate the conditions under which the greatest quarterback in NFL history operated during his greatest moment in the sport's greatest game.
And Starr was brilliant on that drive, in the decisive moments of the sport's most famous game: he completed 5 of 5 passes in ball-busting cold, and then called a run play for the winning score. But instead of handing it off, he decided in his mind, without telling his teammates, that he was going to punch it in himself. It was only fitting: the game's greatest signal-caller taking matters into his own hands in the sport's signature moment.
To cap his career*achievements, Starr*earned*MVP honors in the first two Super Bowls after shredding the best the AFL could throw his way for 452 yards on 47 passing attempts (9.6 YPA).*Among those victims were the 1967 Raiders,*perhaps the AFL's greatest single team. He posted a combined 106.0 passer rating in those two games. If you think it was no small feat to beat up on "upstart" AFL teams, just look at how NFL*quarterbacks fared in Super Bowls III and IV. (Here's a hint: they were embarrassed.)
When it comes to a combination of leadership, victories, big-game performances and statistical supremacy nobody – NOBODY – put together a more total package than Bart Starr, the greatest quarterback in NFL history.
Re: Top 10 Hated Players of all time by Bills fans
It's absolutely impossible to compare QBs from different eras. The game has changed so dramatically and the rules for the offense are nothing like the past.
And when the Bills let him go finally, NO ONE ELSE IN THE LEAGUE offered him even a Waterboy's job.
Because he was a dick.
And all his fans? The Losmaniacs?
They were dicks too. It's why they liked him.
Or even the CFL. lol
Political correctness ( or cancel culture as it is called today) is a doctrine fostered by a delusional ,illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by MSM which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
Harry S Truman 1941.
Re: Top 10 Hated Players of all time by Bills fans
Brady and Cox are pretty much interchangeable for me as #1 and well.. #1.
Not sure how to rank the other players, but one I would add, even though he's new/young is Odell Beckham. What a whiny little *****. I really cant stand that guy.
Overview:*That's right. Bart Starr. The greatest quarterback in the history of the game.
Sit down and take notes:
History has done a grave disservice to the legacy of Starr, the 17th-round draft pick out of pre-Bear Bryant Alabama who turned into the most clutch and most cruelly efficient passing assassin of his or any other generation.
History remembers Starr's legendary coach, and the bevy of Hall of Fame talent that surrounded him. It forgets that Starr was Lombardi's second in command, a tremendous big-game performer, and that the Packers of the 1960s would have been just another team without the prolific Starr as their beloved on-field leader. Instead, they won five NFL championships, with Starr at the helm of every single one of those title teams, while he crafted an NFL-record 9-1 postseason mark. The rings say it all: Starr is the only quarterback in history who has one for every finger on his throwing hand.
And even if you listen to teammates today, they make it pretty clear that they would have fallen on a grenade for Starr. Leadership is an elemental piece of quarterbacking – probably more important than gaudy passing stats. And that love his teammates had for their field general is an incredible sign of his leadership.
But forget, for a moment, the team accomplishments and the "intangibles" of leadership.
If you want to talk passing and statistics, we'll put Starr up against anybody. Anybody.
He led the NFL in passer rating five times. Johnny Unitas led the league in passer rating just twice. Ditto Joe Montana. Only Steve Young surpassed Starr's mark (six).
And, lest we forget, Starr was the best postseason passer in NFL history, as evidenced by his record 104.8 playoff passer rating and 1.41 percent interception rate, also a postseason record (CHFF readers are well aware of the importance of not throwing picks in the playoffs). Starr played in an era when 80 was a decent passer rating. Yet he still performed more efficiently in the playoffs than folks such as Montana, Brady, Manning, Marino, Young and ... well, anybody, ever.
There's a cause and effect here, folks: NFL's greatest dynasty, only winners of three-straight title games, and a record 9-1 postseason mark. And there, underlying it all, is Starr with his postseason passing records. The two are intricately intertwined.
History also remembers Starr's Packers as a great running team, and that's certainly true of their earlier years. But the truth is that they typically passed the ball more effectively than they ran it, especially during their run of three straight, when they were a below-average running team.
In their 1965 championship season, the Packers were 11th in the 14-team league with an average of 3.4 yards per rushing attempt. They were second in the league, with an average of 8.2 yards per passing attempt.
In their 1966 championship season, the Packers were 14th in the 15-team league, with an average of 3.5 yards per rushing attempt. They were first in the league, with an average of 8.9 yards per passing attempt.
In their 1967 championship season, the Packers were*4th in the 16-team league, with an average of 4.0 yards per rushing attempt. They*were first in the league, with an*average of 8.3 yards per passing attempt (Starr himself that season averaged 8.7 YPA).
Starr averaged a remarkable 7.85 YPA over the course of his entire career,*the 8th-best mark in history, and better than that of a slate of quarterbacks who are generally regarded as the best passers in history, including Dan Marino (7.37), Joe Montana (7.52), Roger Staubach (7.67), Dan Fouts (7.68), Sonny Jurgensen (7.56), Fran Tarkenton (7.27), Y.A. Tittle (7.52), Terry Bradshaw (7.17) and Joe Namath (7.35).
Six times in the 1960s, Starr surpassed 8.2 YPA for a season. To put that into context, Peyton Manning has surpassed 8.2 YPA just twice in his brilliant 10-year career.
And, if you want drama, don't forget that Starr*scored the winning TD in the Ice Bowl, probably the most famous game in NFL history. Sure, Montana led his team 92 yards for the game-winning score in Super Bowl XXIII. But he did it on a 68-degree night in Miami. Turn down the thermostat by 86 degrees (it was 18-below in the fourth quarter of the Ice Bowl) and you begin to approximate the conditions under which the greatest quarterback in NFL history operated during his greatest moment in the sport's greatest game.
And Starr was brilliant on that drive, in the decisive moments of the sport's most famous game: he completed 5 of 5 passes in ball-busting cold, and then called a run play for the winning score. But instead of handing it off, he decided in his mind, without telling his teammates, that he was going to punch it in himself. It was only fitting: the game's greatest signal-caller taking matters into his own hands in the sport's signature moment.
To cap his career*achievements, Starr*earned*MVP honors in the first two Super Bowls after shredding the best the AFL could throw his way for 452 yards on 47 passing attempts (9.6 YPA).*Among those victims were the 1967 Raiders,*perhaps the AFL's greatest single team. He posted a combined 106.0 passer rating in those two games. If you think it was no small feat to beat up on "upstart" AFL teams, just look at how NFL*quarterbacks fared in Super Bowls III and IV. (Here's a hint: they were embarrassed.)
When it comes to a combination of leadership, victories, big-game performances and statistical supremacy nobody – NOBODY – put together a more total package than Bart Starr, the greatest quarterback in NFL history.
I've seen articles like this before, and I disagree with them. As one of the articles you found pointed out, Johnny Unitas has almost twice as many career passing yards as Bart Starr. That means that comparing Unitas' and Starr's yards per attempt is not apples-to-apples; because a run-oriented offense will tend to boost a QB's yards per attempt.
Evidence to that effect can be found in the article itself. Bart Starr's career yards per attempt is 7.8. The author mentioned that in 1965 - 1967, the Packers' yards per rush attempt varied between 3.4 and 4.0. So why call many more rushing plays than passing plays, if an average passing play gets you twice as many yards as an average running play? Why leave all those extra yards on the table? Had the Packers become a pass-oriented team, it would have hurt Starr's average yards per pass attempt. Vince Lombardi understood this, which is why he elected to maintain a run-oriented offense. Johnny Unitas was the best QB of that era; because his yards per attempt was almost identical to Starr's, and because Unitas achieved that high YPA in a far more pass-oriented offense than Starr's.
"If you want to talk passing and statistics, we'll put Starr up against anybody. Anybody." The author goes on to favorably compare Starr's yards per attempt to that of other QBs, such as Montana and Brady. But the author neglects to mention that Bart Starr's passing statistics are not as good as those of Aaron Rodgers. Rodgers has a slightly higher yards per attempt--7.9 to 7.8. The bigger difference is in INT percentage: 1.5% for Rodgers, 4.3% for Starr. When you take into account the fact that Starr was operating a run-oriented offense--and therefore receiving an artificial boost to his yards per pass attempt--his stats don't even come close to those of Aaron Rodgers. (As an aside, Rodgers is also ahead of Brady in INT percentage, but not much. Brady's is 1.8%.)
I've seen articles like this before, and I disagree with them. As one of the articles you found pointed out, Johnny Unitas has almost twice as many career passing yards as Bart Starr. That means that comparing Unitas' and Starr's yards per attempt is not apples-to-apples; because a run-oriented offense will tend to boost a QB's yards per attempt.
Evidence to that effect can be found in the article itself. Bart Starr's career yards per attempt is 7.8. The author mentioned that in 1965 - 1967, the Packers' yards per rush attempt varied between 3.4 and 4.0. So why call many more rushing plays than passing plays, if an average passing play gets you twice as many yards as an average running play? Why leave all those extra yards on the table? Had the Packers become a pass-oriented team, it would have hurt Starr's average yards per pass attempt. Vince Lombardi understood this, which is why he elected to maintain a run-oriented offense. Johnny Unitas was the best QB of that era; because his yards per attempt was almost identical to Starr's, and because Unitas achieved that high YPA in a far more pass-oriented offense than Starr's.
"If you want to talk passing and statistics, we'll put Starr up against anybody. Anybody." The author goes on to favorably compare Starr's yards per attempt to that of other QBs, such as Montana and Brady. But the author neglects to mention that Bart Starr's passing statistics are not as good as those of Aaron Rodgers. Rodgers has a slightly higher yards per attempt--7.9 to 7.8. The bigger difference is in INT percentage: 1.5% for Rodgers, 4.3% for Starr. When you take into account the fact that Starr was operating a run-oriented offense--and therefore receiving an artificial boost to his yards per pass attempt--his stats don't even come close to those of Aaron Rodgers. (As an aside, Rodgers is also ahead of Brady in INT percentage, but not much. Brady's is 1.8%.)
The Packers didn't have a "run oriented" offense, they ran a "move the ball, keep possession and score points" oriented offense.
The qbs job is to be as efficient as possible in putting points on the board and play their best when the pressure is on to lead their team to victory.
The Packers didn't have a "run oriented" offense, they ran a "move the ball, keep possession and score points" oriented offense.
The qbs job is to be as efficient as possible in putting points on the board and play their best when the pressure is on to lead their team to victory.
Bart Starr did that better than anyone.
No. He didn't. He was a pretty good QB at best. Come back when you develop a clue. It's a widely accepted fact.
Johnny Unitas was a great QB. Neither Bart Starr nor Jack Kemp were. They get far too much credit.
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ROFLMAO. This is your lesson for the day in your "the internet is shiva's friend" journey. If you think Bart Starr was the best anything QB related, then you are just plain stupid.
The Packers didn't have a "run oriented" offense, they ran a "move the ball, keep possession and score points" oriented offense.
The qbs job is to be as efficient as possible in putting points on the board and play their best when the pressure is on to lead their team to victory.
Bart Starr did that better than anyone.
Wrong again Sally. The Packers certainly did have a run-oriented offense.
Starr was the perfect leader and quarterback for Vince Lombardi's dynasty with the Packers. Lombardi was a no-nonsense coach who won with a running offense and great execution. Starr was the field general who made plays down the stretch in big games.
Starr was there to not screw up. He did an adequate job of that, but he was not great.
Tom Brady is 4-2 in Super Bowls, with a chance at title No. 5 on Sunday. Joe Montana went 4-0 -- and never threw an interception in the NFL's biggest game. Who is the greatest QB of all time?
He gets over-rated in every poll because he was surrounded by the greatest team of all time and best coach in NFL history.
Tom Brady is 4-2 in Super Bowls, with a chance at title No. 5 on Sunday. Joe Montana went 4-0 -- and never threw an interception in the NFL's biggest game. Who is the greatest QB of all time?
He gets over-rated in every poll because he was surrounded by the greatest team of all time and best coach in NFL history.
Sorry, but a "running offense" isn't a "run-ORIENTED offense".
The Packers had equally capable run and pass offenses.
Would they run it first, and if the other team couldn't stop them, kept running? Of course, that's smart football.
But if the run wasn't working, they had no problem winning with the pass.
And even though Starr's stats are more than great, he understood that a qb's job isn't racking up passing stats, it was leading his offense to score more points than the other team's offense.
Re: Top 10 Hated Players of all time by Bills fans
Stat wise, Starr doesn't even compete well in his own era.
Brodie, Unitas, Meredith, Frank Ryan, Jurgensen, Tarkenton all put up better numbers than Starr did.
And to counter Sparty's above point about scoring, in Starr's best year, 1966 the Packers scored 36 offensive TDs. In comparison the Cowboys, the team the Packers beat in the NFL title game, scored 51. The Chiefs, the team the Packers beat in the first Super Bowl, scored 50.
The Lombardi led Packers were built on running and defense with a QB who was good enough not to screw anything up.
Stat wise, Starr doesn't even compete well in his own era.
Brodie, Unitas, Meredith, Frank Ryan, Jurgensen, Tarkenton all put up better numbers than Starr did.
And to counter Sparty's above point about scoring, in Starr's best year, 1966 the Packers scored 36 offensive TDs. In comparison the Cowboys, the team the Packers beat in the NFL title game, scored 51. The Chiefs, the team the Packers beat in the first Super Bowl, scored 50.
The Lombardi led Packers were built on running and defense with a QB who was good enough not to screw anything up.
Did you watch Bart Starr play? I didn't, either.
But what I do know is that you can't look at the stats and pretend to know what happened in ball-games. Cannot do it, particularly in the eras of your forefathers, when it was a completely different game.
Or, if you think Unitas was the best, a head injury must have prevented you from watching Otto Graham.
Like I said, there are lots of guys that were great in their own right, but if you wanted a winner, that was Bart Starr.
The napping comment was supposed to be comical, I didn't meant it to be an insult. I liked Bart Starr, he was true grit blue-collar get-r-done football. But Starr studied Unitas. It wasn't just the the stats, Johnny was the inventor/perfecter of the three-step drop, the five-step drop, he called his own plays, and perfected the concept of the timing route. In the '58 playoff classic, he orchestrated a last minute game tying drive, and in the overtime had essentially invented the two-minute drill.
These are the things I believe put him above all the other greats. We won't agree, but it's a good debate.
"You can't be a real country unless you have beer and an airline - it helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need beer."
~ Frank Zappa
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