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Thread: Top 10 Hated Players of all time by Bills fans

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    Re: Top 10 Hated Players of all time by Bills fans

    Brady and Cox are pretty much interchangeable for me as #1 and well.. #1.

    Not sure how to rank the other players, but one I would add, even though he's new/young is Odell Beckham. What a whiny little *****. I really cant stand that guy.

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    Re: Top 10 Hated Players of all time by Bills fans

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post
    http://www.footballnation.net/conten...terbacks/6376/

    The definitive list: Top 10 NFL quarterbacks

    Posted on 1/24/2008 7:00:00 AM

    By*Kerry Byrne*FN In-House Expert

    ...

    1. BART STARR*(Green Bay, 1956-71)

    Best*season (1966):*156 for 251 (62.2%), 2,257 yards, 9.0 YPA, 14 TD, 3 INT, 105.0 passer rating

    Career:*1,808 for 3,149 (57.4%), 24,718 yards, 7.8 YPA, 152 TD, 138 INT, 80.5 passer rating*

    Championships:*1961, 1962, 1965, 1966, 1967

    Overview:*That's right. Bart Starr. The greatest quarterback in the history of the game.

    Sit down and take notes:

    History has done a grave disservice to the legacy of Starr, the 17th-round draft pick out of pre-Bear Bryant Alabama who turned into the most clutch and most cruelly efficient passing assassin of his or any other generation.

    History remembers Starr's legendary coach, and the bevy of Hall of Fame talent that surrounded him. It forgets that Starr was Lombardi's second in command, a tremendous big-game performer, and that the Packers of the 1960s would have been just another team without the prolific Starr as their beloved on-field leader. Instead, they won five NFL championships, with Starr at the helm of every single one of those title teams, while he crafted an NFL-record 9-1 postseason mark. The rings say it all: Starr is the only quarterback in history who has one for every finger on his throwing hand.

    And even if you listen to teammates today, they make it pretty clear that they would have fallen on a grenade for Starr. Leadership is an elemental piece of quarterbacking – probably more important than gaudy passing stats. And that love his teammates had for their field general is an incredible sign of his leadership.

    But forget, for a moment, the team accomplishments and the "intangibles" of leadership.

    If you want to talk passing and statistics, we'll put Starr up against anybody. Anybody.

    He led the NFL in passer rating five times. Johnny Unitas led the league in passer rating just twice. Ditto Joe Montana. Only Steve Young surpassed Starr's mark (six).

    And, lest we forget, Starr was the best postseason passer in NFL history, as evidenced by his record 104.8 playoff passer rating and 1.41 percent interception rate, also a postseason record (CHFF readers are well aware of the importance of not throwing picks in the playoffs). Starr played in an era when 80 was a decent passer rating. Yet he still performed more efficiently in the playoffs than folks such as Montana, Brady, Manning, Marino, Young and ... well, anybody, ever.

    There's a cause and effect here, folks: NFL's greatest dynasty, only winners of three-straight title games, and a record 9-1 postseason mark. And there, underlying it all, is Starr with his postseason passing records. The two are intricately intertwined.

    History also remembers Starr's Packers as a great running team, and that's certainly true of their earlier years. But the truth is that they typically passed the ball more effectively than they ran it, especially during their run of three straight, when they were a below-average running team.

    In their 1965 championship season, the Packers were 11th in the 14-team league with an average of 3.4 yards per rushing attempt. They were second in the league, with an average of 8.2 yards per passing attempt.

    In their 1966 championship season, the Packers were 14th in the 15-team league, with an average of 3.5 yards per rushing attempt. They were first in the league, with an average of 8.9 yards per passing attempt.

    In their 1967 championship season, the Packers were*4th in the 16-team league, with an average of 4.0 yards per rushing attempt. They*were first in the league, with an*average of 8.3 yards per passing attempt (Starr himself that season averaged 8.7 YPA).

    Starr averaged a remarkable 7.85 YPA over the course of his entire career,*the 8th-best mark in history, and better than that of a slate of quarterbacks who are generally regarded as the best passers in history, including Dan Marino (7.37), Joe Montana (7.52), Roger Staubach (7.67), Dan Fouts (7.68), Sonny Jurgensen (7.56), Fran Tarkenton (7.27), Y.A. Tittle (7.52), Terry Bradshaw (7.17) and Joe Namath (7.35).

    Six times in the 1960s, Starr surpassed 8.2 YPA for a season. To put that into context, Peyton Manning has surpassed 8.2 YPA just twice in his brilliant 10-year career.

    And, if you want drama, don't forget that Starr*scored the winning TD in the Ice Bowl, probably the most famous game in NFL history. Sure, Montana led his team 92 yards for the game-winning score in Super Bowl XXIII. But he did it on a 68-degree night in Miami. Turn down the thermostat by 86 degrees (it was 18-below in the fourth quarter of the Ice Bowl) and you begin to approximate the conditions under which the greatest quarterback in NFL history operated during his greatest moment in the sport's greatest game.

    And Starr was brilliant on that drive, in the decisive moments of the sport's most famous game: he completed 5 of 5 passes in ball-busting cold, and then called a run play for the winning score. But instead of handing it off, he decided in his mind, without telling his teammates, that he was going to punch it in himself. It was only fitting: the game's greatest signal-caller taking matters into his own hands in the sport's signature moment.

    To cap his career*achievements, Starr*earned*MVP honors in the first two Super Bowls after shredding the best the AFL could throw his way for 452 yards on 47 passing attempts (9.6 YPA).*Among those victims were the 1967 Raiders,*perhaps the AFL's greatest single team. He posted a combined 106.0 passer rating in those two games. If you think it was no small feat to beat up on "upstart" AFL teams, just look at how NFL*quarterbacks fared in Super Bowls III and IV. (Here's a hint: they were embarrassed.)

    When it comes to a combination of leadership, victories, big-game performances and statistical supremacy nobody – NOBODY – put together a more total package than Bart Starr, the greatest quarterback in NFL history.


    I've seen articles like this before, and I disagree with them. As one of the articles you found pointed out, Johnny Unitas has almost twice as many career passing yards as Bart Starr. That means that comparing Unitas' and Starr's yards per attempt is not apples-to-apples; because a run-oriented offense will tend to boost a QB's yards per attempt.

    Evidence to that effect can be found in the article itself. Bart Starr's career yards per attempt is 7.8. The author mentioned that in 1965 - 1967, the Packers' yards per rush attempt varied between 3.4 and 4.0. So why call many more rushing plays than passing plays, if an average passing play gets you twice as many yards as an average running play? Why leave all those extra yards on the table? Had the Packers become a pass-oriented team, it would have hurt Starr's average yards per pass attempt. Vince Lombardi understood this, which is why he elected to maintain a run-oriented offense. Johnny Unitas was the best QB of that era; because his yards per attempt was almost identical to Starr's, and because Unitas achieved that high YPA in a far more pass-oriented offense than Starr's.

    "If you want to talk passing and statistics, we'll put Starr up against anybody. Anybody." The author goes on to favorably compare Starr's yards per attempt to that of other QBs, such as Montana and Brady. But the author neglects to mention that Bart Starr's passing statistics are not as good as those of Aaron Rodgers. Rodgers has a slightly higher yards per attempt--7.9 to 7.8. The bigger difference is in INT percentage: 1.5% for Rodgers, 4.3% for Starr. When you take into account the fact that Starr was operating a run-oriented offense--and therefore receiving an artificial boost to his yards per pass attempt--his stats don't even come close to those of Aaron Rodgers. (As an aside, Rodgers is also ahead of Brady in INT percentage, but not much. Brady's is 1.8%.)

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    Re: Top 10 Hated Players of all time by Bills fans

    Quote Originally Posted by Arm of Harm View Post
    I've seen articles like this before, and I disagree with them. As one of the articles you found pointed out, Johnny Unitas has almost twice as many career passing yards as Bart Starr. That means that comparing Unitas' and Starr's yards per attempt is not apples-to-apples; because a run-oriented offense will tend to boost a QB's yards per attempt.

    Evidence to that effect can be found in the article itself. Bart Starr's career yards per attempt is 7.8. The author mentioned that in 1965 - 1967, the Packers' yards per rush attempt varied between 3.4 and 4.0. So why call many more rushing plays than passing plays, if an average passing play gets you twice as many yards as an average running play? Why leave all those extra yards on the table? Had the Packers become a pass-oriented team, it would have hurt Starr's average yards per pass attempt. Vince Lombardi understood this, which is why he elected to maintain a run-oriented offense. Johnny Unitas was the best QB of that era; because his yards per attempt was almost identical to Starr's, and because Unitas achieved that high YPA in a far more pass-oriented offense than Starr's.

    "If you want to talk passing and statistics, we'll put Starr up against anybody. Anybody." The author goes on to favorably compare Starr's yards per attempt to that of other QBs, such as Montana and Brady. But the author neglects to mention that Bart Starr's passing statistics are not as good as those of Aaron Rodgers. Rodgers has a slightly higher yards per attempt--7.9 to 7.8. The bigger difference is in INT percentage: 1.5% for Rodgers, 4.3% for Starr. When you take into account the fact that Starr was operating a run-oriented offense--and therefore receiving an artificial boost to his yards per pass attempt--his stats don't even come close to those of Aaron Rodgers. (As an aside, Rodgers is also ahead of Brady in INT percentage, but not much. Brady's is 1.8%.)
    The Packers didn't have a "run oriented" offense, they ran a "move the ball, keep possession and score points" oriented offense.

    The qbs job is to be as efficient as possible in putting points on the board and play their best when the pressure is on to lead their team to victory.

    Bart Starr did that better than anyone.
    My tebya razdavim

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    Re: Top 10 Hated Players of all time by Bills fans

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post
    The Packers didn't have a "run oriented" offense, they ran a "move the ball, keep possession and score points" oriented offense.

    The qbs job is to be as efficient as possible in putting points on the board and play their best when the pressure is on to lead their team to victory.

    Bart Starr did that better than anyone.
    No. He didn't. He was a pretty good QB at best. Come back when you develop a clue. It's a widely accepted fact.

    Johnny Unitas was a great QB. Neither Bart Starr nor Jack Kemp were. They get far too much credit.
    Last edited by swiper; 06-27-2017 at 05:27 PM.

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    Re: Top 10 Hated Players of all time by Bills fans

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post
    Greatest QB of all time: Bart Starr

    http://m.packers.com/news/video/grea...2-e11198e037c1

    For video highlights of who every serious Packers fan considers the greatest...
    ROFLMAO. This is your lesson for the day in your "the internet is shiva's friend" journey. If you think Bart Starr was the best anything QB related, then you are just plain stupid.

    Yet most if us already realize that.

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    Re: Top 10 Hated Players of all time by Bills fans

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post
    The Packers didn't have a "run oriented" offense, they ran a "move the ball, keep possession and score points" oriented offense.

    The qbs job is to be as efficient as possible in putting points on the board and play their best when the pressure is on to lead their team to victory.

    Bart Starr did that better than anyone.
    Wrong again Sally. The Packers certainly did have a run-oriented offense.

    Starr was the perfect leader and quarterback for Vince Lombardi's dynasty with the Packers. Lombardi was a no-nonsense coach who won with a running offense and great execution. Starr was the field general who made plays down the stretch in big games.
    Starr was there to not screw up. He did an adequate job of that, but he was not great.

    http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/1...st-nfl-qb-ever

    He gets over-rated in every poll because he was surrounded by the greatest team of all time and best coach in NFL history.
    Last edited by swiper; 06-27-2017 at 06:25 PM.

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    Re: Top 10 Hated Players of all time by Bills fans

    Quote Originally Posted by Swiper View Post
    Wrong again Sally. The Packers certainly did have a run-oriented offense.



    Starr was there to not screw up. He did an adequate job of that, but he was not great.

    http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/1...st-nfl-qb-ever

    He gets over-rated in every poll because he was surrounded by the greatest team of all time and best coach in NFL history.
    Sorry, but a "running offense" isn't a "run-ORIENTED offense".

    The Packers had equally capable run and pass offenses.

    Would they run it first, and if the other team couldn't stop them, kept running? Of course, that's smart football.

    But if the run wasn't working, they had no problem winning with the pass.

    And even though Starr's stats are more than great, he understood that a qb's job isn't racking up passing stats, it was leading his offense to score more points than the other team's offense.

    Which he did better than anyone.

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    Re: Top 10 Hated Players of all time by Bills fans

    Stat wise, Starr doesn't even compete well in his own era.

    Brodie, Unitas, Meredith, Frank Ryan, Jurgensen, Tarkenton all put up better numbers than Starr did.

    And to counter Sparty's above point about scoring, in Starr's best year, 1966 the Packers scored 36 offensive TDs. In comparison the Cowboys, the team the Packers beat in the NFL title game, scored 51. The Chiefs, the team the Packers beat in the first Super Bowl, scored 50.

    The Lombardi led Packers were built on running and defense with a QB who was good enough not to screw anything up.

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    Re: Top 10 Hated Players of all time by Bills fans

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Pink View Post
    Stat wise, Starr doesn't even compete well in his own era.

    Brodie, Unitas, Meredith, Frank Ryan, Jurgensen, Tarkenton all put up better numbers than Starr did.

    And to counter Sparty's above point about scoring, in Starr's best year, 1966 the Packers scored 36 offensive TDs. In comparison the Cowboys, the team the Packers beat in the NFL title game, scored 51. The Chiefs, the team the Packers beat in the first Super Bowl, scored 50.

    The Lombardi led Packers were built on running and defense with a QB who was good enough not to screw anything up.
    Did you watch Bart Starr play? I didn't, either.

    But what I do know is that you can't look at the stats and pretend to know what happened in ball-games. Cannot do it, particularly in the eras of your forefathers, when it was a completely different game.
    Last edited by feldspar; 06-27-2017 at 10:46 PM.

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    Re: Top 10 Hated Players of all time by Bills fans

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post
    Or, if you think Unitas was the best, a head injury must have prevented you from watching Otto Graham.

    Like I said, there are lots of guys that were great in their own right, but if you wanted a winner, that was Bart Starr.
    The napping comment was supposed to be comical, I didn't meant it to be an insult. I liked Bart Starr, he was true grit blue-collar get-r-done football. But Starr studied Unitas. It wasn't just the the stats, Johnny was the inventor/perfecter of the three-step drop, the five-step drop, he called his own plays, and perfected the concept of the timing route. In the '58 playoff classic, he orchestrated a last minute game tying drive, and in the overtime had essentially invented the two-minute drill.

    These are the things I believe put him above all the other greats. We won't agree, but it's a good debate.
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    Re: Top 10 Hated Players of all time by Bills fans

    Quote Originally Posted by Swiper View Post
    No Brian Cox?
    I've seen a lot of players flip our fans off....Matt Cavanaugh, Bennie Blades, etc.

    But that's fine. Call Cox 10B.

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    Re: Top 10 Hated Players of all time by Bills fans

    Quote Originally Posted by bleve View Post
    I liked Bart Starr, he was true grit blue-collar get-r-done football. But Starr studied Unitas. It wasn't just the the stats, Johnny was the inventor/perfecter of the three-step drop, the five-step drop, he called his own plays, and perfected the concept of the timing route.
    Unitas is top five for sure, and any qb who followed him would have been an idiot not to study him.

    But the question isn't who was the most prolific innovator, it's who ultimately PLAYED the position the best, and as a qb Starr was a stone cold killer who broke my heart too many times.

    Was he flashy? No. Nothing he did would ever stand out as proclaiming him a generational player with a rocket arm and 4.4 speed.

    He just did things as simply and efficiently as possible. He just wanted to beat you, not look like Superman.

    And IMO, he beat people better than anyone who's ever played the position.

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    Re: Top 10 Hated Players of all time by Bills fans

    Wow. Shiva hijacking a thread.

    What year is this?

    Kelly Holcomb still sucks.

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    Re: Top 10 Hated Players of all time by Bills fans

    Quote Originally Posted by WagonCircler View Post
    Wow. Shiva hijacking a thread.

    What year is this?

    Kelly Holcomb still sucks.
    And Bills fans are still idiots.

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    Re: Top 10 Hated Players of all time by Bills fans

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post
    And Bills fans are still idiots.
    Go stick your dick in a light socket

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    Re: Top 10 Hated Players of all time by Bills fans

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post
    And Bills fans are still idiots.
    and yet..you are here..
    Anonymity is an abused privilege, abused most by people who mistake vitriol for wisdom and cynicism for wit

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    Re: Top 10 Hated Players of all time by Bills fans

    Quote Originally Posted by Night Train View Post
    and yet..you are here..
    On a board where he looks down his nose at practically everyone...talk about idiotic

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    Re: Top 10 Hated Players of all time by Bills fans

    Quote Originally Posted by Night Train View Post
    and yet..you are here..
    Yes, I am. So what?

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    Re: Top 10 Hated Players of all time by Bills fans

    Quote Originally Posted by feldspar View Post
    On a board where he looks down his nose at practically everyone...talk about idiotic
    Ahh, do I look down my nose at you? Do I make you feel bad about yourself? The My Best Friend doesn't feel so special?

    Boo ****ing hoo...

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    Re: Top 10 Hated Players of all time by Bills fans

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post
    Ahh, do I look down my nose at you? Do I make you feel bad about yourself? The My Best Friend doesn't feel so special?

    Boo ****ing hoo...
    What's wrong with you, exactly?

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