Tyrod Taylor receives high marks for week 2

[Mouldsie]

As bad as Tyrod was yesterday (and he was horrible) his O line was just as bad, the WR's were getting no separation and the play calling (especially in the first half) was beyond abysmal. T

at the risk of being called a tyrod apologist, there is plenty of blame to go around for the loss, not just Tyrod. But he gets a huge chunk of it.

A reasoned take? Where am I???

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Because it is the "interpretation, and communication of meaningful patterns in data. Especially valuable in areas rich with recorded information, analytics relies on the simultaneous application of statistics, computer programming and operations research to quantify performance" which is the definition of analytics.

Do you think PFF is doing something different than the definition?

Yes, because their "data" in this case (game grade) is subjective. (and does not fall under statistics, computer programming, or operations research)

[Mouldsie]

Heh.....



https://www.profootballfocus.com/

It's analytics.

Cool they use a buzzword as part of their marketing strategy. Sometimes they use real basic statistics but that's not what game grades are.

[Mouldsie]

Sorry, I wasn't saying you said that. Just quoting your post and addressing the multiple things that were brought up. Should of been clearer.

The question you have to ask yourself is why was the pass thrown to the guy 1 yard off the LOS? Was that the play call? Was it a check down? Did he go through reads and the only result be that WR/RB/TE?

Then you have to ask yourself was it the right decision? Then was the pass accurate, inaccurate but catchable, or inaccurate? If it was incomplete was it because the pass was bad, was it dropped by the WR?

These are all questions the evaluator should be answering per play.

And again that is assuming they get the play call and desired outcome correct.

This.

(I encourage certain people to leave the individual player you have a bias against out of this portion of the discussion for a second so you can be objective)

[SpikedLemonade]

I can't make sense of what the author of this piece was thinkin'.

Did he mean "HIGH" in this way?

[Mace]

Cool they use a buzzword as part of their marketing strategy. Sometimes they use real basic statistics but that's not what game grades are.

They call themselves an analytics site. They use analytics they developed for their conclusions, the article calls them an analytics site, they're known for analytics. They use them in their write up :

As a passer keeping him clean was key. When pressure was kept away from him he produced a passer rating of 86.1, when pressure got there, that dropped to 59.0.

No idea how you can dispute it, or why you'd want to. It's pretty straightforward.

[Mouldsie]

They call themselves an analytics site. They use analytics they developed for their conclusions, the article calls them an analytics site, they're known for analytics. They use them in their write up :



No idea how you can dispute it, or why you'd want to. It's pretty straightforward.

Right, it's a hot keyword. They do analytics stuff, but that's not how they determine an individual game grade.


In this case, they're using a stat to justify a grade. Not grading based on the stat.

[YardRat]

A reasoned take? Where am I???

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Yes, because their "data" in this case (game grade) is subjective. (and does not fall under statistics, computer programming, or operations research)

We'll just have to agree to disagree...IMO it certainly does fall under statistics, and individual and team performance falls under operations research.

[Mace]

Right, it's a hot keyword. They do analytics stuff, but that's not how they determine an individual game grade.


In this case, they're using a stat to justify a grade. Not grading based on the stat.

That's how they base an individual game grade, Mouldsie, they say so themselves and try and make their rep on it. If you look up the def of analytics, and compare that to what they say they do, it's still not something you're ever going to get past. They grade by the stat and that's pretty obvious, because they're all about grading by the stat and say so themselves.

And back to the basic point, Taylor may well have graded best through the oft mentioned analytics, which like it or not were analytics by definition, but his completion percentage hardly meant a crap for 107 net yards and nothing to show for it in the end result. It meant nothing to the result. There isn't any defending this unless I'm missing something.

[Mouldsie]

You're the one obsessed with (bashing) Tyrod (understandable because you don't see him as the future and want to throw some different **** on the wall / the known unknown is intriguing).

I'm defending the claim that because PFF does subjective grading of players based on all 22 video of each snap that player was involved in AND that they graded Tyrod as not being as ****ty as our super smart Bills fans say THAT MEANS football analytics are useless.

1) PFF does do some analytics. Never disputed that. They even take their non analytics information (grades) and try to apply them analytically (i.e. grades over time, average grades, grades vs peers, vs common opponents etc).
2) What I am saying is that the way they grade a player from a game is not based in analytics because none of it is objective. See DraftBoy's posts as an explainer on how a game grade is given.
3) Tyrod's grade is not analytics. When you take that grade and defend it with stats, compare it to other grades, etc then it becomes "analytics"
4) That is not what people are criticizing
5) None of that means that analytics in football are bunk.

Of course this is just gonna keep going around in circles because "OMG 125 YARDS" ---which is so ironic, given the "analytics are stupid" backdrop, that it actually makes this funny/tolerable.

[Forward_Lateral]

Ah another idiot to my ignore list

[Joe Fo Sho]

I wonder how Tyrod would have graded out if it wasn't for his last drive when the Panthers were playing that stout prevent defense?

Through 57 minutes and 25 seconds Tyrod was 10/16 for 74 yards. Those are the kind of numbers I want my starting QB to have, analytics or not...STUD.

[Mouldsie]

Ah another idiot to my ignore list

Goodbye My Best Friend

[Mouldsie]

I wonder how Tyrod would have graded out if it wasn't for his last drive when the Panthers were playing that stout prevent defense?

Through 57 minutes and 25 seconds Tyrod was 10/16 for 74 yards. Those are the kind of numbers I want my starting QB to have, analytics or not...STUD.

I see another person who likes to talk to himself here

[Skooby]

Ah another idiot to my ignore list

Haha, trying to defend Tyrod's play is just about as sad as it gets.

[Skooby]

I wonder how Tyrod would have graded out if it wasn't for his last drive when the Panthers were playing that stout prevent defense?

Through 57 minutes and 25 seconds Tyrod was 10/16 for 74 yards. Those are the kind of numbers I want my starting QB to have, analytics or not...STUD.

He would of graded out terribly. Tyrod literally kept the defense on the field all day long and they stood their ground allowing 3 FG's. Tyrod can't and will not pull his weight, its plain for all to see but some still refuse to accept it.

[Joe Fo Sho]

I see another person who likes to talk to himself here

Seems like you were listening.

[Forward_Lateral]

Haha, trying to defend Tyrod's play is just about as sad as it gets.

It's one thing to defend his play, it's another to ramble on and on and on and on and accuse those who don't have the same opinion as you do to be biased because they don't like Tyrod.

I don't know Tyrod as a person, I have no issues with him personally. I think he's a mediocre at best QB who can make plays with his legs, but when push comes to shove won't win you a game with his arm.

He's a one read, then tuck it off and run or check it down QB.

[Joe Fo Sho]

He would of graded out terribly. Tyrod literally kept the defense on the field all day long and they stood their ground allowing 3 FG's. Tyrod can't and will not pull his weight, its plain for all to see but some still refuse to accept it.

21 minutes of possession, 1 first down in the 1st half, 66 yards receiving between our receivers...no reason to panic.

We had the ball for 6 minutes and 53 seconds in the 1st half, so the Panthers had more TOP in the first half than we had all game.

1st drive - 1 min 6 sec, 3 plays (punt)
2nd drive - 2 min 1 sec, 3 plays (punt)
3rd drive - 3 min 8 sec, 6 plays (punt)
4th drive - 32 sec 3 plays (punt)
5th drive - 6 sec, 1 play (half)

Pretty standard stuff for an NFL offense, no need for change. There's nothing to worry about.

[ICRockets]

It's one thing to defend his play, it's another to ramble on and on and on and on and accuse those who don't have the same opinion as you do to be biased because they don't like Tyrod.

"If you want to just say 'Tyrod isn't AS bad as some of you are saying' then that's fine, but if you want to actually EXPLAIN AND SUPPORT that take, you can go **** yourself."

[Mouldsie]

I'm not even talking about Tyrod.

I'm talking about whether or not a subjective game grade based on human judgment constitutes analytics and whether that grade makes analytics a useless practice in football.

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Pretty standard stuff for an NFL offense, no need for change. There's nothing to worry about.

I'd love to meet the idiots saying that, you and I could give them hell!