Incentivize and or punitive sterilization...

[OpIv37]

Death penalty should be doled out more.

This is exactly the type of irrational thinking I’m talking about. The death penalty has proven to be ineffective as a deterrent, horrifically biased towards the poor and minorities, and significantly more expensive than life imprisonments due to all the appeals and trials. The only reason to want more of it is pure vengeance, and there is no way to find common ground with someone who merely seeks vengeance.

Furthermore, your initial posts wants sterilization of irresponsible people so they don’t become burdens on society. So, you are willing to spend taxpayer dollars to put people to death but not to care for children. Again, there is no reasoning with this type of irrational thought.

[JackJoeJimJosh]

The constitution is a joke. You can't honestly believe in that piece of successful freemason propaganda. Furthermore how is imposed sterilization upon the less intelligent and less industrious a deprivation of life?

Now this is a fascinating statement. Freemason propaganda? What support do you have for that statement???

[ublinkwescore]

Now this is a fascinating statement. Freemason propaganda? What support do you have for that statement???

The fact that significant numbers of "the founding fathers" were masons.

[ublinkwescore]

This is exactly the type of irrational thinking I’m talking about. The death penalty has proven to be ineffective as a deterrent, horrifically biased towards the poor and minorities, and significantly more expensive than life imprisonments due to all the appeals and trials. The only reason to want more of it is pure vengeance, and there is no way to find common ground with someone who merely seeks vengeance.

Furthermore, your initial posts wants sterilization of irresponsible people so they don’t become burdens on society. So, you are willing to spend taxpayer dollars to put people to death but not to care for children. Again, there is no reasoning with this type of irrational thought.

You are such a lame SJW... every one in prison is innocent...

Sterilization is not execution you moron.

[ublinkwescore]

Now this is a fascinating statement. Freemason propaganda? What support do you have for that statement???

Also the fact that the constitution has done nothing to effect positively the conduct of the U.S. federal government.

[YardRat]

This is exactly the type of irrational thinking I’m talking about. The death penalty has proven to be ineffective as a deterrent, horrifically biased towards the poor and minorities, and significantly more expensive than life imprisonments due to all the appeals and trials. The only reason to want more of it is pure vengeance, and there is no way to find common ground with someone who merely seeks vengeance.

It's not irrational because you disagree with it.

The death penalty is 100% effective against recidivism, is a form of individual punishment not meant to be a deterrent to others, and generally no more biased than any other crime statistic. How rational is it to claim vengeance is solely the purpose for supporting it, and dismiss any possibility for finding common ground?

[Blondie]

It's not irrational because you disagree with it.

The death penalty is 100% effective against recidivism, is a form of individual punishment not meant to be a deterrent to others, and generally no more biased than any other crime statistic. How rational is it to claim vengeance is solely the purpose for supporting it, and dismiss any possibility for finding common ground?

Seems the death penalty has killed more innocent than the criminals ... but there is no solid way to prove this.

[OpIv37]

It's not irrational because you disagree with it.

The death penalty is 100% effective against recidivism, is a form of individual punishment not meant to be a deterrent to others, and generally no more biased than any other crime statistic. How rational is it to claim vengeance is solely the purpose for supporting it, and dismiss any possibility for finding common ground?

The fact that it’s 100% effective against recidivism also means that it’s also 100% impossible to undo if the conviction is found to be wrong. Someone in prison who turns out to be innocent can’t be given the years back but they can be released and compensated. And as far as being an individual punishment, that’s all well and good but it’s not enough. It doesn’t help society to punish the individual after the fact. It helps society when the punishment is something that discourages people from committing the crime in the first place. Oh, and “individual punishment” and vengeance are inherently the same thing- making the person pay for what they did.

And other crime statistics are biased toward the poor and minorities too, but that’s not an excuse for not correcting this one.

So I stand by my statement. There is no logical or factual reason to support the death penalty.

[OpIv37]

You are such a lame SJW... every one in prison is innocent...

Sterilization is not execution you moron.

I never said sterilization and execution are the same thing. You’re the one who said you supported sterilization and also said you wanted the death penalty “doled out more.”

I pointed out the flaws in the death penalty and the irrationality of wanting to spend taxpayer dollars to put people to death but not to care for children’s.

[YardRat]

The fact that it’s 100% effective against recidivism also means that it’s also 100% impossible to undo if the conviction is found to be wrong. Someone in prison who turns out to be innocent can’t be given the years back but they can be released and compensated. And as far as being an individual punishment, that’s all well and good but it’s not enough. It doesn’t help society to punish the individual after the fact. It helps society when the punishment is something that discourages people from committing the crime in the first place. Oh, and “individual punishment” and vengeance are inherently the same thing- making the person pay for what they did.

And other crime statistics are biased toward the poor and minorities too, but that’s not an excuse for not correcting this one.

So I stand by my statement. There is no logical or factual reason to support the death penalty.

Everything in this post is your opinion.

That doesn't make those with the opposite opinion 'irrational'.

[OpIv37]

Everything in this post is your opinion.

That doesn't make those with the opposite opinion 'irrational'.

It is not my opinion that the death penalty can not be undone. It is a fact.

It is not my opinion that the death penalty is not an effective deterrent. Many studies have proven this. It is not my opinion that preventing crimes is a major goal of law enforcement and deterrent penalties are one way of doing that. It is a fact.

It is not my opinion that the death penalty is biased against the poor and minorities. It is a fact. You bringing up that other crime statistics are similarly biased has nothing to do with the death penalty. It’s deflection.

You don’t understand the difference between fact and opinion. What makes the opposite opinion irrational is that it isn’t supported by fact when mine is.

[stuckincincy]

O Canada...

UN committee recommends Canada criminalize involuntary sterilization

AFN National Chief wants forced sterilization of First Nations women made a Criminal Code offence

Penny Smoke · CBC News · Posted: Dec 07, 2018 4:00 PM ET | Last Updated: December 7

https://www.cbc.ca/news/indigenous/u...tion-1.4936879

[YardRat]

It is not my opinion that the death penalty can not be undone. It is a fact.

It is not my opinion that the death penalty is not an effective deterrent. Many studies have proven this. It is not my opinion that preventing crimes is a major goal of law enforcement and deterrent penalties are one way of doing that. It is a fact.

It is not my opinion that the death penalty is biased against the poor and minorities. It is a fact. You bringing up that other crime statistics are similarly biased has nothing to do with the death penalty. It’s deflection.

You don’t understand the difference between fact and opinion. What makes the opposite opinion irrational is that it isn’t supported by fact when mine is.

Ehhhhhhh, OK I'll revise my previous post a little...

The fact that it’s 100% effective against recidivism also means that it’s also 100% impossible to undo if the conviction is found to be wrong. Someone in prison who turns out to be innocent can’t be given the years back but they can be released and compensated. And as far as being an individual punishment, that’s all well and good but it’s not enough. It doesn’t help society to punish the individual after the fact. It helps society when the punishment is something that discourages people from committing the crime in the first place. Oh, and “individual punishment” and vengeance are inherently the same thing- making the person pay for what they did.

And other crime statistics are biased toward the poor and minorities too, but that’s not an excuse for not correcting this one.

So I stand by my statement. There is no logical or factual reason to support the death penalty.

Everything above except for the bolded is your opinion and despite your reluctance to acknowledge, not facts.

You do realize that a portion of the legal establishment has been arguing in favor of capital punishment since at least 1879 and opponents still have not been able to craft a 'rational' enough argument to render the practice wholly unconstitutional, right? Are you really going to claim that a century-and-a-half worth of Supreme Courts have ruled in favor of the death penalty (or more specific aspects pertaining to it) based on irrationality? You think none of the those arguments are supported by fact?

C'mon...that's just ignorance on a pretty high level.

I'm an opponent of any type of capital punishment btw, just so that's out there before you have to resort to any 'you're stoopid because you think differently' responses.

[OpIv37]

Ehhhhhhh, OK I'll revise my previous post a little...


Everything above except for the bolded is your opinion and despite your reluctance to acknowledge, not facts.

You do realize that a portion of the legal establishment has been arguing in favor of capital punishment since at least 1879 and opponents still have not been able to craft a 'rational' enough argument to render the practice wholly unconstitutional, right? Are you really going to claim that a century-and-a-half worth of Supreme Courts have ruled in favor of the death penalty (or more specific aspects pertaining to it) based on irrationality? You think none of the those arguments are supported by fact?

C'mon...that's just ignorance on a pretty high level.

I'm an opponent of any type of capital punishment btw, just so that's out there before you have to resort to any 'you're stoopid because you think differently' responses.

You are wrong. It is fact that the death penalty is not an effective deterrent and does nothing to prevent crime before the fact.

It is fact that other crime statistics being biased has nothing to do with the death penalty.

And you are mixing apples and oranges. I never said the death penalty was unconstitutional. I said it was irrational. There are millions of things that are irrational that can’t be proven unconstitutional in court. And I never made a “you’re stupid because you think differently” argument. I stated why the opposing argument was stupid and backed it up with facts.

I’m not one of those people who think everyone who disagrees with me is stupid. In this particular case, the people who disagree with me have no facts or rational argument to defend their opinion. So, it’s irrational.

[ublinkwescore]

I never said sterilization and execution are the same thing. You’re the one who said you supported sterilization and also said you wanted the death penalty “doled out more.”

I pointed out the flaws in the death penalty and the irrationality of wanting to spend taxpayer dollars to put people to death but not to care for children’s.

What better way to prevent suffering than to prevent conception?

[ublinkwescore]

This thread got ridiculously off topic.

[OpIv37]

What better way to prevent suffering than to prevent conception?

I agree with that but I think that can be done with birth control and education.

[ublinkwescore]

I agree with that but I think that can be done with birth control and education.

Let's say Juan has been in and out of jail/prison his whole life. Juan grew up without a father. Juan is a validated gang member. Juan has 4 baby mamas. Juan is currently sitting in a prison in California, but will inevitably be out soon. Should we not offer Juan a slightly earlier release if he agrees to get snipped so that at least we know there can't be any more Juan's running around than there already are?

[YardRat]

I’m not one of those people who think everyone who disagrees with me is stupid. In this particular case, the people who disagree with me have no facts or rational argument to defend their opinion. So, it’s irrational.

So every Supreme court decision that sided in favor of capital punishment was based on zero facts and irrational arguments. Mmmmmkay.

[JackJoeJimJosh]

The fact that significant numbers of "the founding fathers" were masons.

Like George Mason? That's one.