Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 41

Thread: The U.S. lied to us about Afghanistan

  1. #1
    Not quite Best in the World.... ckg927's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    12,101
    Thanks
    5,482
    Thanked 3,913 Times in 2,937 Posts
    Power to Give Rep
    33

    The U.S. lied to us about Afghanistan

    And this spans 3 presidents(GWB, Obama, and now Trump). The admins all said we were making progress. But we were NOT.

    We've spent untold millions. Many troops lost their lives or came back injured.

    And for WHAT?

    http://washingtonpost.com/graphics/2...ial-documents/
    "Do I have everybody's attention now?"

    -CM Punk, Monday Night RAW, 7/11/2011

  2. #2
    RABBI Haile SpikedLemonade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    27,232
    Thanks
    32,273
    Thanked 11,614 Times in 7,874 Posts
    Power to Give Rep
    66

    Re: The U.S. lied to us about Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by ckg927 View Post
    And this spans 3 presidents(GWB, Obama, and now Trump). The admins all said we were making progress. But we were NOT.

    We've spent untold millions. Many troops lost their lives or came back injured.

    And for WHAT?

    http://washingtonpost.com/graphics/2...ial-documents/
    Billions.

  3. Post thanked by:

    CommissarSpartacus (12-09-2019)

  4. #3
    Proudly victimizing the victimizer's victimizer and cracking soreheads Tailgunner Joe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Posts
    766
    Thanks
    784
    Thanked 523 Times in 314 Posts
    Power to Give Rep
    2

    Re: The U.S. lied to us about Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by ckg927 View Post
    And this spans 3 presidents(GWB, Obama, and now Trump). The admins all said we were making progress. But we were NOT.

    We've spent untold millions. Many troops lost their lives or came back injured.

    And for WHAT?

    http://washingtonpost.com/graphics/2...ial-documents/
    You don"t win in the Stan no matter how exceptional or indispensible you think you are. We should have packed up shop after Bin Laden, but Afghanistan is about keeping China out of central Asia and keeping hegemony over possible oil pipeline routes so we are never ever leaving. Also, the longer you can make a war last the more guns you can sell and the more money you can "misplace." Its all about the Almighty dollar.

  5. #4
    The Meathead of Muslims! ticatfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    ottawa valley
    Posts
    24,377
    Thanks
    6,230
    Thanked 2,705 Times in 2,127 Posts
    Power to Give Rep
    71

    Re: The U.S. lied to us about Afghanistan

    Thanks Obama.

  6. #5
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    40,949
    Thanks
    9,686
    Thanked 20,120 Times in 12,322 Posts
    Power to Give Rep
    105

    Re: The U.S. lied to us about Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by ckg927 View Post
    And this spans 3 presidents(GWB, Obama, and now Trump). The admins all said we were making progress. But we were NOT.

    We've spent untold millions. Many troops lost their lives or came back injured.

    And for WHAT?

    http://washingtonpost.com/graphics/2...ial-documents/
    Seems to me there have been a few voices in the wilderness who have been telling you this for EIGHTEEN ****ING YEARS!

  7. #6
    Not quite Best in the World.... ckg927's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    12,101
    Thanks
    5,482
    Thanked 3,913 Times in 2,937 Posts
    Power to Give Rep
    33

    Re: The U.S. lied to us about Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by ticatfan View Post
    Thanks Obama.
    You can thank GWB, too. This began under his watch.

  8. #7
    Raging hypocrite and resident troll Discotrish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Native: West Seneca Now: Florida
    Posts
    33,207
    Thanks
    2,341
    Thanked 4,564 Times in 3,260 Posts
    Power to Give Rep
    88

    Re: The U.S. lied to us about Afghanistan

    Progress on what?

    Patti

  9. #8
    Acid Douching Asswipe OpIv37's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
    Posts
    86,915
    Thanks
    9,555
    Thanked 17,840 Times in 8,855 Posts
    Power to Give Rep
    243

    Re: The U.S. lied to us about Afghanistan

    Sadly, this really shouldn't surprise anyone.

    From the beginning, no one really knew what "winning" in Afghanistan really meant. We knew we had to get bin Laden and we knew we wanted the Taliban to be gone, but doing those things didn't end the extremist ideology or stop the militant groups that promote it.

    In most wars, there is a clear objective for each side. For example, in the first Gulf War, Iraq wanted to take over Kuwaiti and Saudi oil fields. "Winning" for them meant gaining control of that land and the oil production facilities on it. "Winning" for the US and the rest of the coalition meant keeping the Iraqis out of Saudi Arabia and pushing them out of Kuwait back to Iraq's original pre-war border. Everyone knew who the enemy was, and the objective for each side was clear and measurable.

    In Afghanistan, what was the objective? "Stop the terrorists!" Well, who exactly are the terrorists? How do you know a good Afghani from a bad one when they're standing right next to each other? People can be killed or forced off a piece of land, but an ideology can't be. It was a futile effort from day 1. And we should have known it would happen because the same thing happened to the Soviets in Afghanistan in the 80's.

  10. #9
    The Meathead of Muslims! ticatfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    ottawa valley
    Posts
    24,377
    Thanks
    6,230
    Thanked 2,705 Times in 2,127 Posts
    Power to Give Rep
    71

    Re: The U.S. lied to us about Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by ckg927 View Post
    You can thank GWB, too. This began under his watch.
    Obama killed it at the wrong time. Success there would be pulling them out of the 10th century. With the infrastructure work going on here as in dams,schools hospitals, roads, but after pulling out it stopped.

  11. #10
    Proudly victimizing the victimizer's victimizer and cracking soreheads Tailgunner Joe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Posts
    766
    Thanks
    784
    Thanked 523 Times in 314 Posts
    Power to Give Rep
    2

    Re: The U.S. lied to us about Afghanistan

    Again, we are "winning" in Afghanistan. By we I mean the MIC barons and the oligarchs. By winning I mean continuing to make a literal killing off the arms trade, the opium trade, keeping the Chinese out, being able to stay on the EAEU's southern and Iran's eastern flank, and in general being an evil pain in the ass. Afghanistan will never be free.

  12. #11
    Proudly victimizing the victimizer's victimizer and cracking soreheads Tailgunner Joe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Posts
    766
    Thanks
    784
    Thanked 523 Times in 314 Posts
    Power to Give Rep
    2

    Re: The U.S. lied to us about Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by ckg927 View Post
    You can thank GWB, too. This began under his watch.
    Well, Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan, and to be fair you can thank Leonid Brezhnev too. However, if we didn't sell arms to the Afghans there is no OBL, the Afghan civil war is extremely short, and Afghanistan is a secular socialist albeit pro Soviet vlient state. We really did not know what we were unleashing, but that has been the way of our foreign policy for decades.

  13. #12
    Victimizing The Victimizer Downinfloflo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    7,568
    Thanks
    890
    Thanked 4,288 Times in 2,730 Posts
    Power to Give Rep
    24

    Re: The U.S. lied to us about Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Tailgunner Joe View Post
    Well, Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan, and to be fair you can thank Leonid Brezhnev too. However, if we didn't sell arms to the Afghans there is no OBL, the Afghan civil war is extremely short, and Afghanistan is a secular socialist albeit pro Soviet vlient state. We really did not know what we were unleashing, but that has been the way of our foreign policy for decades.
    OBL and the Afghanis used Russian weapons that Russian soldiers abandoned after 13 years of war in Afghanistan.

  14. #13
    Proudly victimizing the victimizer's victimizer and cracking soreheads Tailgunner Joe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Posts
    766
    Thanks
    784
    Thanked 523 Times in 314 Posts
    Power to Give Rep
    2

    Re: The U.S. lied to us about Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Downinfloflo View Post
    OBL and the Afghanis used Russian weapons that Russian soldiers abandoned after 13 years of war in Afghanistan.
    After they were funded and armed by the CIA. Lets not gaslight.

  15. #14
    Victimizing The Victimizer Downinfloflo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    7,568
    Thanks
    890
    Thanked 4,288 Times in 2,730 Posts
    Power to Give Rep
    24

    Re: The U.S. lied to us about Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Tailgunner Joe View Post
    After they were funded and armed by the CIA. Lets not gaslight.
    The Russians left their equipment behind and the Afghanis got it. Nothing to gaslight, Its what they did.

    Thr Russian lost between 10,000 to 15,000 soldiers in that war and about 40,000 wounded, They just wanted out.

  16. #15
    Registered User jimmifli's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    6,427
    Thanks
    8,517
    Thanked 7,764 Times in 3,495 Posts
    Power to Give Rep
    29

    Re: The U.S. lied to us about Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Downinfloflo View Post
    The Russians left their equipment behind and the Afghanis got it. Nothing to gaslight, Its what they did.

    Thr Russian lost between 10,000 to 15,000 soldiers in that war and about 40,000 wounded, They just wanted out.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charli...27s_War_(film)
    As part of this effort, Charlie befriends maverick CIA operative Gust Avrakotos and his understaffed Afghanistan group to find a better strategy, especially including a means to counter the Soviets' formidable Mil Mi-24 Hind helicopter gunship. This group was composed in part of members of the CIA's Special Activities Division, including a young paramilitary officer named Michael Vickers. As a result, Charlie's deft political bargaining for the necessary funding and Avrakotos' careful planning using those resources, such as supplying the guerrillas with FIM-92 Stinger missile launchers, turns the Soviet occupation into a deadly quagmire with their heavy fighting vehicles being destroyed at a crippling rate. Charlie enlists the support of Israel and Egypt for Soviet weapons and consumables, and Pakistan for distribution of arms. The CIA's anti-communism budget evolves from $5 million to over $500 million (with the same amount matched by Saudi Arabia), startling several congressmen. This effort by Charlie ultimately evolves into a major portion of the U.S. foreign policy known as the Reagan Doctrine, under which the U.S. expanded assistance beyond just the mujahideen and began also supporting other anti-communist resistance movements around the world. Charlie states that senior Pentagon official Michael Pillsbury persuaded President Ronald Reagan to provide the Stingers to the Afghans.
    $1.5 billion spent on weapons by US, Saudi and Israeli governments. "What the Russians left behind" is not an accurate indication of where the weapons came from.

  17. Post thanked by:

    CommissarSpartacus (12-10-2019),Tailgunner Joe (12-09-2019)

  18. #16
    Victimizing The Victimizer Downinfloflo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    7,568
    Thanks
    890
    Thanked 4,288 Times in 2,730 Posts
    Power to Give Rep
    24

    Re: The U.S. lied to us about Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by jimmifli View Post
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charli...27s_War_(film)


    $1.5 billion spent on weapons by US, Saudi and Israeli governments. "What the Russians left behind" is not an accurate indication of where the weapons came from.
    The Afghani warlords were flying Russian helicopters and driving Russian tanks and APC's.

    They got them from the Russians who got out of dodge after 50,000 Russians were wounded or killed.

  19. #17
    The Meathead of Muslims! ticatfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    ottawa valley
    Posts
    24,377
    Thanks
    6,230
    Thanked 2,705 Times in 2,127 Posts
    Power to Give Rep
    71

    Re: The U.S. lied to us about Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Downinfloflo View Post
    The Afghani warlords were flying Russian helicopters and driving Russian tanks and APC's.

    They got them from the Russians who got out of dodge after 50,000 Russians were wounded or killed.
    Maybe the west just bought them some new stuff.

  20. #18
    Victimizing The Victimizer Downinfloflo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    7,568
    Thanks
    890
    Thanked 4,288 Times in 2,730 Posts
    Power to Give Rep
    24

    Re: The U.S. lied to us about Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by ticatfan View Post
    Maybe the west just bought them some new stuff.
    New Russian stuff?

    The middle east is litered with Russian made military equipment and has been, The Americans sent equipment to counter it.

  21. Post thanked by:

    jamze132 (12-10-2019)

  22. #19
    Registered User jamze132's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Posts
    22,874
    Thanks
    3,072
    Thanked 2,183 Times in 1,295 Posts
    Power to Give Rep
    80

    Re: The U.S. lied to us about Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Downinfloflo View Post
    The Afghani warlords were flying Russian helicopters and driving Russian tanks and APC's.

    They got them from the Russians who got out of dodge after 50,000 Russians were wounded or killed.
    I’ve been to Afghanistan (twice) and I have a hard time believing any warlord knew how to pilot a Hind, or any other rotary-wing aircraft. Half those guys can’t even do a jumping jack correctly. But I understand your point of view, which I agree with.

    If the gloves were taken off the Americans, a “war” could have been over almost as quickly as Desert Storm. But I truly feel this was more about long term access to natural resources and minerals, which have estimated at more than $2.5T, untapped...of my memory serves me.

  23. Post thanked by:

    CommissarSpartacus (12-10-2019)

  24. #20
    Proud Sorehead!!! Historian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Upstairs
    Posts
    46,802
    Thanks
    20,944
    Thanked 17,973 Times in 9,548 Posts
    Power to Give Rep
    162

    Re: The U.S. lied to us about Afghanistan

    Discopatty's first love....


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •