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Thread: more explosive new details come out in Astros cheating scandal

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    more explosive new details come out in Astros cheating scandal

    Not only did Astros players and coaches use a camera, TV screen and garbage can to electronically steal signs and relay them to hitters, but the entire operation was fueled by an Excel spreadsheet developed by a then-intern that used an algorithm to decode opposing team’s signs.

    Members of the Astros front office called it “Codebreaker,” according to documents obtained by the Wall Street Journal, and often referred to their tactics as the “dark arts.” The system and the front-office employees that manned it were part of the process of figuring out opposing teams’ signs and ultimately getting the information to Astros players to use on the field.

    This adds a new layer to one of baseball’s biggest scandals, which until this point was characterized as “player-led” by MLB. Instead, this new information suggests a top-down scheme that obtained information and filtered it to players.
    The Wall Street Journal’s Jared Diamond obtained a letter sent to Astros general manager Jeff Luhnow from MLB commissioner Rob Manfred that outlined results of the league’s three-month investigation. The letter was sent about a week and a half before MLB announced its punishment for the Astros, which resulted in year-long suspensions for Luhnow and manager A.J. Hinch, a fine and loss of draft picks. Shortly after, Astros owner Jim Crane fired both Hinch and Luhnow. Players weren’t punished as part of an immunity deal for their cooperation.This latest story focuses entirely on the Houston front office, and now brings this question back into focus: How much did Luhnow himself know about all this? Luhnow, you’ll remember, denied knowing anything about the cheating scheme when he was fired and didn’t comment on the Wall Street Journal story.Among the other details that have come to light:

    • The use of Codebreaker continued into 2018 and not just at home games, but also on the road. Until this point, it was assumed that the Astros only used their system at home. This story suggests they used at least some version of it on the road.
    • Luhnow, however, told MLB that he thought the use of Codebreaker was only for decoding signs after games, not in real-time.
    • The Codebreaker system was developed by Derek Vigoa, then an intern and now the Astros’ senior manager for team operations.
    • Tom Koch-Weser, the team’s director of advance information, plays a central role in this latest story. He told MLB investigators Luhnow would “giggle” at the name “Codebreaker.” Koch-Weser said Luhnow would sometimes say, “You guys Codebreaking?” when he came to the Astros video room during road games. Luhnow denied this to the Wall Street Journal
    .
    • Koch-Weser would often call the system the Astros’ “dark arts,” according to e-mails obtained by MLB. He said once in a team Slack channel, referring to Luhnow: “I know the secrets that made us a championship team, some of which he[’]d definitely feel a lot safer if they were kept in-house.”
    • Another Astros front-office staffer Matt Hogan told MLB investigators that no one tried to hide their actions from Luhnow. “It would have been something to show we were working and get validation of our work,” Hogan told investigators.• Luhnow was updated via e-mail by many in the front office about Codebreaker, the investigation shows, however Luhnow’s defense was that he didn’t read the full e-mails.
    • Regardless of Luhnow’s claim he didn’t know about any of this, Manfred’s letter said, “there is more than sufficient evidence to support a conclusion that you knew—and overwhelming evidence that you should have known—that the Astros

    maintained a sign-stealing program that violated MLB’s rules.”https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb...cid=spartanntp




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    Re: more explosive new details come out in Astros cheating scandal

    I saw this.
    Welcome to Buffalo Henri Jokiharju

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    Re: more explosive new details come out in Astros cheating scandal

    https://www.thescore.com/mlb/news/1944281

    Former P Mike Bolsinger sues the Astros for hurting his career.

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    Re: more explosive new details come out in Astros cheating scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by mightysimi View Post
    https://www.thescore.com/mlb/news/1944281

    Former P Mike Bolsinger sues the Astros for hurting his career.
    Good. Every player from the teams they beat in the playoffs and the teams themselves should sue them as well. They may never get that chance again and the Astros stole it from them.

    The people involved need to personally suffer financially. I'm concerned that the punishment wasn't harsh enough. The small market teams have to be thinking "If we cheat and win the WS, we'll get fined and have to fire the manager and GM? Yeah, that's totally worth the price of admission."

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    Re: more explosive new details come out in Astros cheating scandal

    In Crane’s press conference yesterday he had the audacity to say the cheating didn’t help the team. What a piece of ****.

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    Re: more explosive new details come out in Astros cheating scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by jamze132 View Post
    In Crane’s press conference yesterday he had the audacity to say the cheating didn’t help the team. What a piece of ****.
    Lmao. Take any baseball player from little league up through the World Series Champions Washington Nationals and ask if they think hitting would be easier if they knew which pitch was coming ahead of time. 100% will say yes.

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    Re: more explosive new details come out in Astros cheating scandal

    It’s kind of funny to see people get so outraged about this like baseball doesn’t have an incredibly rich history of cheating.
    COMING SOON...
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    Re: more explosive new details come out in Astros cheating scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by DraftBoy View Post
    It’s kind of funny to see people get so outraged about this like baseball doesn’t have an incredibly rich history of cheating.
    True. But it IS the first time that cheating may well have helped a team win the World Series.
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    Re: more explosive new details come out in Astros cheating scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by ckg927 View Post
    True. But it IS the first time that cheating may well have helped a team win the World Series.
    No it’s not. It’s the first time got caught.

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    Re: more explosive new details come out in Astros cheating scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by ckg927 View Post
    True. But it IS the first time that cheating may well have helped a team win the World Series.
    umm see the 1919 World Series THE "BLACKSOX"
    Last edited by DetDannyWilliams; 02-15-2020 at 04:14 PM.

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    Re: more explosive new details come out in Astros cheating scandal


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    Re: more explosive new details come out in Astros cheating scandal

    I think they need to take away the awards and the World Series victory. If they let those things stand, then the *fine* for the team simply results in a cheating scheme that was well worth the cost.

    Patti

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    Re: more explosive new details come out in Astros cheating scandal

    Its going to be fun watching the Astros players get drilled this season, They earned it.

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    Re: more explosive new details come out in Astros cheating scandal

    If I was a pitcher in spring training, I would intentionally walk all astros involved. You dont get to hit.

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    Re: more explosive new details come out in Astros cheating scandal

    MLBPA denies Rob Manfred's claim that union blocked Astros interviews until players had immunity

    Major League Baseball commissioner Rob Manfred attempted to clear the air yet again on Tuesday about his office’s handling of Houston Astros’ cheating scandal, but one point of contention has triggered a public disagreement with the MLB Players Association.

    “The union indicated to us that that would be a problem,” Manfred said. “We went back and suggested to them we would give them an initial list of people — players — that we would grant immunity to, preserving our ability to discipline other players. And the union came back and said that players would cooperate only if there was blanket immunity. Because we were at a bit of a stalemate, we knew we needed player witnesses, we agreed to that immunity agreement.“Let me be clear — we would not have gotten where we got in terms of understanding the facts, learning the facts, disclosing the facts, if we hadn’t reached that agreement. So, I’m not being critical of anyone. But the fact of the matter is the union wanted an immunity agreement to protect their members. And that’s how we got there.”
    Essentially, Manfred was placing responsibility on the union for the widely criticized decision to give Astros players immunity.

    Players acrossthe leagueplus LeBron James
    — have questioned why no Astros players have received league punishment for a scheme that was, by most accounts, player-driven. Manfred had previously said the decision was made because the league did not believe it would not have learned nearly as much about the scheme without giving players immunity.
    The MLBPA fired back later on Tuesday, releasing a statement saying Manfred’s office confirmed to the union the day after the Astros scheme was reported that no players would face discipline. It said any suggestion the union triggered some kind of stand-off over player immunity is “untrue” and that the league was never going to be able to discipline players over the scheme.
    The statement also said that written proposals over potential rule changes about sign-stealing have been exchanged between MLB and the MLBPA.The full statement:

    The day after The Athletic published its Nov. 12 article, Major League Baseball informed the Players Association it would be conducting an investigation, and that it would want to interview players as a part of that investigation. MLB said from the outset that it was not its intention to discipline players. This was not surprising because the applicable rules did not allow for player discipline, because even if they did players were never notified of the rules to begin with, and because in past cases involving electronic sign stealing MLB had stated that Club personnel were responsible for ensuring compliance with the rules.

    Against this backdrop, the Association on Nov. 13 sought and received confirmation from the league that the players interviewed and any other players would not be disciplined in connection with the allegations made in the article. We received that confirmation promptly on the evening of Nov. 13, and the player interviews began days later.

    Any suggestion that the Association failed to cooperate with the Commissioner’s investigation, obstructed the investigation, or otherwise took positions which led to a stalemate in the investigation is completely untrue. We acted to protect the rights of our members, as is our obligation under the law.Over the last two weeks, the Association and MLB have had regular dialogue on potential rule changes affecting sign stealing, in-game technology and video, data access and usage, Club audits and disclosures, player education, and enforcement – including the potential for player discipline. Written proposals have been exchanged, and we have made it clear to MLB that no issue is off the table, including player discipline.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/mlbpa-denies-rob-manfreds-claim-that-union-blocked-astros-interviews-until-players-had-immunity/ar-BB1091bz?ocid=spartanntp








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    Re: more explosive new details come out in Astros cheating scandal

    Manfred is either totally incompetent or corrupt. Ongoing sign-stealing scandals involving two teams (that we know about) and the juiced ball last year. I could go on but what’s the point. He’d probably be successful as a congressman.

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    Re: more explosive new details come out in Astros cheating scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by Downinfloflo View Post
    Its going to be fun watching the Astros players get drilled this season, They earned it.
    And the progressively worse suspensions that those pitchers get for beaning the Astros will be worth it as well?

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    Victimizing The Victimizer Downinfloflo's Avatar
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    Re: more explosive new details come out in Astros cheating scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by DraftBoy View Post
    And the progressively worse suspensions that those pitchers get for beaning the Astros will be worth it as well?
    Oh yes.

    Its going to suck to be an Astro.

    Don't worry, If things get to exciting for you, You can watch golf wile you iron your socks.

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    Re: more explosive new details come out in Astros cheating scandal

    I like what Stanton said. If he knew what was coming, he'd have hit over 80 homers that year.


    I guess baseball needed a new, fresh black eye to help erase the steroid era.
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    Re: more explosive new details come out in Astros cheating scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by Downinfloflo View Post
    Oh yes.

    Its going to suck to be an Astro.

    Don't worry, If things get to exciting for you, You can watch golf wile you iron your socks.
    I don’t iron my socks silly, my dryer had a steam press setting that removes wrinkles. You need to upgrade.

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