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Thread: Beane - "Diggs Is Our 1st Round Pick"

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    Re: Beane - "Diggs Is Our 1st Round Pick"

    Quote Originally Posted by Swiper View Post
    Not sure why you're getting on OPV for speculating.
    If he admitted that's what he was doing I wouldn't have posted but he thinks he's speaking truths that the rest of us either can't accept or can't comprehend. He's not.

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    Re: Beane - "Diggs Is Our 1st Round Pick"

    or john brown cathces a ball at the goal line or drags his feet.... it can go on and on. The difference in my opinion to the last 20 years is that I trust that there is a chance that if we get down, Allen has a chance to bring them back. I have never felt that way about anyone before him going back to Kelly. He is absolutely not without flaws but we have also seen growth from every step from Wyoming to the senior bowl, from senior bowl to playing, to coming back after injury to the beginning to the end of last year. Well except Houston. Point being continual growth which I expect to continue.

    Drafting a WR in a rich draft could yield results but the more likely scenario is they take a year or 2 to become dominant (if at all) at that point you are paying Allen way more than the cap hit Diggs currently has. There is a gamble and while some might say the cap hit is high, the reality is we paid as much as we did because it is relatively low compared to others at his position and talent and for the next 4 years. We paid for a known commodity with cost certainty. Will it work? who know because we all know it is all on Allen's development and no rookie or star wr will change that fact.

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    Re: Beane - "Diggs Is Our 1st Round Pick"

    Quote Originally Posted by OpIv37 View Post
    Oh they absolutely do need their chances helped.

    This is the same team with the same problems. You want to play the "What If" game? We would have been 9-7 and missed the playoffs if the Titans had started Tannehill over Mariotta. We would have been 9-7 if Mosley didn't get hurt in the first game against the Jets. Both of those things happen and we're 8-8. Maybe then we don't rest the starters in the finale but then we're back to 9-7 and still out of the playoffs.

    We lucked into an easy schedule last season. It was the same team that got better results because of external factors.
    Why would they need their chances helped if they're the "least worst team in the AFCE" and by winning the division they are guarantee to make the playoffs? What I was saying is that if they somehow don't win the division, there is an extra wildcard team now, and they made the playoffs last year as the better of the 2 wildcard teams.

    Why do you keep repeating the lie that it's the same team with the same problems? So adding to a top defense and adding a top talent at WR means nothing? Basically you're saying they shouldn't try and improve the team because it's useless. Is that the message you are trying to convey? The only other message is "we won't know until the season is over," in which case there is no point in you talking now.

    And they can only play the schedule they're given. The other teams in the division will be playing essentially the same schedule.
    "You're more likely to make a lot of money if you work hard than if you don't."-Spartacus

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    Acid Douching Asswipe OpIv37's Avatar
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    Re: Beane - "Diggs Is Our 1st Round Pick"

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobylal View Post
    Why would they need their chances helped if they're the "least worst team in the AFCE" and by winning the division they are guarantee to make the playoffs? What I was saying is that if they somehow don't win the division, there is an extra wildcard team now, and they made the playoffs last year as the better of the 2 wildcard teams.

    Why do you keep repeating the lie that it's the same team with the same problems? So adding to a top defense and adding a top talent at WR means nothing? Basically you're saying they shouldn't try and improve the team because it's useless. Is that the message you are trying to convey? The only other message is "we won't know until the season is over," in which case there is no point in you talking now.

    And they can only play the schedule they're given. The other teams in the division will be playing essentially the same schedule.
    It IS the same team with the same problems. Did you not watch the games last year? The D was dominant at times and played well enough to win every game. The games we lost were because the O squandered the performance by the D. This is the exact same issue this team has had for most of the last 20 years.

    The only team we beat that finished with a winning record was Tennessee, and that was only because they stupidly played Mariotta and not Tannehill. This is another consistent problem with this team- we beat the bottom feeders, do ok with the mediocre teams and lose to the good ones.

    As far as this upcoming season- I think the D pretty much stayed the same, maybe slightly better, but either way the D wasn't the problem. I think Diggs makes us better on O IF the OL can protect Allen and IF Allen can get him the ball. I think we had a double variable issue with the WR's last year- some of it was just a lack of talent, and the talent that we do have not coming through at key moments, some of it was Allen being inaccurate or just not seeing guys. Diggs helps with the first problem, not the second.

    So far, I just don't think we've improved the O enough to stop squandering good performances by the D. Yes, we still have the draft, but here's the problem with the draft: In order to improve and actually be contenders, we have to close the talent gap between us and the teams that are better than us. And all those teams get to draft too. And most of them have first round picks.

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    Re: Beane - "Diggs Is Our 1st Round Pick"

    And I may have said this already, but I do think this team can make the playoffs by winning a weak division. It's only going to take 9 wins this year, maybe even an 8-8 team will get it.

    I don't see us doing anything in the playoffs because we still can't beat the better teams.

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    Re: Beane - "Diggs Is Our 1st Round Pick"

    Quote Originally Posted by OpIv37 View Post
    It IS the same team with the same problems. Did you not watch the games last year? The D was dominant at times and played well enough to win every game. The games we lost were because the O squandered the performance by the D. This is the exact same issue this team has had for most of the last 20 years.

    The only team we beat that finished with a winning record was Tennessee, and that was only because they stupidly played Mariotta and not Tannehill. This is another consistent problem with this team- we beat the bottom feeders, do ok with the mediocre teams and lose to the good ones.

    As far as this upcoming season- I think the D pretty much stayed the same, maybe slightly better, but either way the D wasn't the problem. I think Diggs makes us better on O IF the OL can protect Allen and IF Allen can get him the ball. I think we had a double variable issue with the WR's last year- some of it was just a lack of talent, and the talent that we do have not coming through at key moments, some of it was Allen being inaccurate or just not seeing guys. Diggs helps with the first problem, not the second.

    So far, I just don't think we've improved the O enough to stop squandering good performances by the D. Yes, we still have the draft, but here's the problem with the draft: In order to improve and actually be contenders, we have to close the talent gap between us and the teams that are better than us. And all those teams get to draft too. And most of them have first round picks.
    Yeah, they have improved enough on offense. The major problem with them last year was not having a good starting WR opposite Brown, which was a revolving door. Now they not only have one, but one that's one of the top WR's in the game. The trickle-down effect will be significant. Going by what happened last year, much less the past 20 years, is meaningless.

    And again, they're the best team in the AFCE. The Cheaters lost a ton over the off-season, most notably Brady, and have the hardest schedule in the NFL this year.

    Quote Originally Posted by OpIv37 View Post
    And I may have said this already, but I do think this team can make the playoffs by winning a weak division. It's only going to take 9 wins this year, maybe even an 8-8 team will get it.

    I don't see us doing anything in the playoffs because we still can't beat the better teams.
    Bull****. With Diggs on the team they can beat most of the teams in the AFC this year.

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    Re: Beane - "Diggs Is Our 1st Round Pick"

    Diggs does make us better but he's one player and it still depends on Allen being able to get him the ball, which depends on the OL being able to protect Allen. I think you're overestimating how much one guy improves the team.

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    Re: Beane - "Diggs Is Our 1st Round Pick"

    One other thing to think about: limited reps in what will definitely be a shortened off-season.

    Granted, this will affect every team, not just the Bills, but QB's and WR's need to develop chemistry with each other, and Allen and Diggs are missing a lot of opportunities to work together. It may take them a few games to get on the same page once the season starts.

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    Re: Beane - "Diggs Is Our 1st Round Pick"

    Quote Originally Posted by Swiper View Post
    He'd better catch north of 85 balls this season then. Period.

    Because I don't know how much of a known commodity he actually is. He's a known malcontent. That is known.
    Over 60 receptions and over 800 yards in each of his past 4 years. 2 of those seasons were over 1000 yards.

    Yeah, he's got a resume.

    As far as the malcontent scenario, there's a legit concern.

    The nightmare scenario is a repeat of the year TO was brought in..under the premise of "we need to give Trent another weapon to hit".

    Well, it turned out that Trentative STILL wouldn't throw the ball over 10 yards, even with TO and Evans. TO stayed remarkably quiet that year..I'm not sure Diggs would/will do the same.

    The way Allen threw the ball last year, I'm not sure how much difference Diggs would have made, at least on the deep throws. He would have just overthrew him by 5 yards like he did with John Brown and everyone else. Diggs wouldn't be happy with that, nor should he be.

    Diggs will get open. So will Smoke and Beasley.

    All of this rests on whether Allen will improve as a passer.

    On the good side, JA knows this. That's a state of mind someone like Edwards never had.

    Before he was quarantined, JA was working with his QB guru, specifically working on his deep ball.

    Its one of the things I like about him. He can take criticism AND take steps to improve in areas of deficiency. He's probably his harshest critic. And he knows how much the success of the offense rests on his shoulders.

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    Re: Beane - "Diggs Is Our 1st Round Pick"

    Quote Originally Posted by notacon View Post
    Blah...blah....blah...blah....

    Thank you for proving my point about the toxicity of your Bills cynicism.
    Lmao. Everything I said is completely true. It’s just easier for you to pass it off as my “toxicity” than accept reality.

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    Re: Beane - "Diggs Is Our 1st Round Pick"

    Quote Originally Posted by OpIv37 View Post
    Lmao. Everything I said is completely true. It’s just easier for you to pass it off as my “toxicity” than accept reality.
    you cant accept the reality that you're reality sucks which is why you were constantly wrong.

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    Re: Beane - "Diggs Is Our 1st Round Pick"

    Quote Originally Posted by justasportsfan View Post
    you cant accept the reality that you're reality sucks which is why you were constantly wrong.
    And that’s your whole problem, as well as his. You dismiss actual reality as my reality. Meanwhile, the results on the field don’t change.

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    Re: Beane - "Diggs Is Our 1st Round Pick"

    Quote Originally Posted by OpIv37 View Post
    Diggs does make us better but he's one player and it still depends on Allen being able to get him the ball, which depends on the OL being able to protect Allen. I think you're overestimating how much one guy improves the team.
    One player can have a major impact. You don't think that Eric Moulds had an effect on Peerless Price, or Michael Irvin had one on Alvin Harper or Ab had an effect on JuJu Smith-Schuster? And he doesn't drop passes and gets contested catches, which is something the other guys struggle with.

    Quote Originally Posted by OpIv37 View Post
    One other thing to think about: limited reps in what will definitely be a shortened off-season.

    Granted, this will affect every team, not just the Bills, but QB's and WR's need to develop chemistry with each other, and Allen and Diggs are missing a lot of opportunities to work together. It may take them a few games to get on the same page once the season starts.
    I expect them to get together at some point this off-season. And I see training camp starting on-time.
    Last edited by Goobylal; 04-07-2020 at 10:05 PM.

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    Re: Beane - "Diggs Is Our 1st Round Pick"

    Quote Originally Posted by mightysimi View Post
    or john brown cathces a ball at the goal line or drags his feet.... it can go on and on. The difference in my opinion to the last 20 years is that I trust that there is a chance that if we get down, Allen has a chance to bring them back. I have never felt that way about anyone before him going back to Kelly. He is absolutely not without flaws but we have also seen growth from every step from Wyoming to the senior bowl, from senior bowl to playing, to coming back after injury to the beginning to the end of last year. Well except Houston. Point being continual growth which I expect to continue.

    Drafting a WR in a rich draft could yield results but the more likely scenario is they take a year or 2 to become dominant (if at all) at that point you are paying Allen way more than the cap hit Diggs currently has. There is a gamble and while some might say the cap hit is high, the reality is we paid as much as we did because it is relatively low compared to others at his position and talent and for the next 4 years. We paid for a known commodity with cost certainty. Will it work? who know because we all know it is all on Allen's development and no rookie or star wr will change that fact.
    I really like Diggs, always did, and maybe.

    I don't buy into the issues with drafting one, because that's the same maybe, but younger and cheaper, and that's just how you build sustained success teams.

    Diggs was dandy in Minny. Will he be here ? Maybe. Could get hurt, could have no chemistry, could be a diva and cranky, maybe he's fine and yay.

    Same crap goes with a rookie. But you're relying on your scouting if you have confidence in them. I mean this isn't a random luck, teams find and get dominant receivers, so ah, why can't we ? As a GM, you're supposed to be identifying and drafting those perfect fit pieces as part of your sustained process long term, aren't you ?

    This is, again, the 4th year of a program and they've been unable to get a WR coming out of college (which is rich and deep with spread and air raid receivers), but need to get people others have found to fill a space they didn't plan for for some reason. I mean really ? You didn't think it was important like putting an o-line in front of your theoretical franchise gem QB ?

    They didn't even have a plan in place to develop Allen, who was so clearly obvious developmental. He had no o-line and receivers, no QB coach, no o-line coach ! They made terrible choices.

    In the 4th year of a program with everyone supposedly united, there's no excuse whatever for counting on other peoples draft picks. There just isn't. That's my worry. They swing wild and it's 50/50 if it works. Kelvin Benjamin, Vontae Davis, Anquan Boldin, Mike Tolbert, Chris Ivory, Keenan Robinson, Marshall Newhouse, yada yada.....

    Like I said, I really like Diggs, there no guarantee this is the same situation, and it's not on Allen if you have a dimwit OC calling long balls to the Fullback and failing to put a TE on the field in the right formation because you forgot JJ Watt.

    It's all on Daboll and I'm not so sure he's up to it. I mean the college scouting clearly isn't.

    That's honestly horrible.
    I lost a bet with Pink and all I got was this dumb avatar that I've had awhile anyway.

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    Re: Beane - "Diggs Is Our 1st Round Pick"

    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    I really like Diggs, always did, and maybe.

    I don't buy into the issues with drafting one, because that's the same maybe, but younger and cheaper, and that's just how you build sustained success teams.

    Diggs was dandy in Minny. Will he be here ? Maybe. Could get hurt, could have no chemistry, could be a diva and cranky, maybe he's fine and yay.

    Same crap goes with a rookie. But you're relying on your scouting if you have confidence in them. I mean this isn't a random luck, teams find and get dominant receivers, so ah, why can't we ? As a GM, you're supposed to be identifying and drafting those perfect fit pieces as part of your sustained process long term, aren't you ?

    This is, again, the 4th year of a program and they've been unable to get a WR coming out of college (which is rich and deep with spread and air raid receivers), but need to get people others have found to fill a space they didn't plan for for some reason. I mean really ? You didn't think it was important like putting an o-line in front of your theoretical franchise gem QB ?

    They didn't even have a plan in place to develop Allen, who was so clearly obvious developmental. He had no o-line and receivers, no QB coach, no o-line coach ! They made terrible choices.

    In the 4th year of a program with everyone supposedly united, there's no excuse whatever for counting on other peoples draft picks. There just isn't. That's my worry. They swing wild and it's 50/50 if it works. Kelvin Benjamin, Vontae Davis, Anquan Boldin, Mike Tolbert, Chris Ivory, Keenan Robinson, Marshall Newhouse, yada yada.....

    Like I said, I really like Diggs, there no guarantee this is the same situation, and it's not on Allen if you have a dimwit OC calling long balls to the Fullback and failing to put a TE on the field in the right formation because you forgot JJ Watt.

    It's all on Daboll and I'm not so sure he's up to it. I mean the college scouting clearly isn't.

    That's honestly horrible.
    The bolded is why I was glad they traded their 1st rounder instead of using it on the 4th or 5th best WR prospect in the draft. I don't trust them to identify, and maybe even develop (see: Foster, Robert), WRs.

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    Re: Beane - "Diggs Is Our 1st Round Pick"

    Quote Originally Posted by OpIv37 View Post
    And that’s your whole problem, as well as his. You dismiss actual reality as my reality. Meanwhile, the results on the field don’t change.
    let me know when your "reality" gets something right.

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    Re: Beane - "Diggs Is Our 1st Round Pick"

    Quote Originally Posted by OpIv37 View Post
    Lmao. Everything I said is completely true. It’s just easier for you to pass it off as my “toxicity” than accept reality.
    No, it's not. Your opinions are toxic.

    I'll stick to the professional sports writers who are objective and realistic. Yours are just from a biased malcontent locked into an untenable and false bubble of cynicism and bullcrap.

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    Re: Beane - "Diggs Is Our 1st Round Pick"

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobylal View Post
    The bolded is why I was glad they traded their 1st rounder instead of using it on the 4th or 5th best WR prospect in the draft. I don't trust them to identify, and maybe even develop (see: Foster, Robert), WRs.
    Every single draft choice is a crap shoot. The college game is simply child's play as compared to the NFL. 99% of college players are not very good as compared to the worst NFL players.

    No one has anything more than a educated guess on which college player is going to do well against real, honest to goodness, NFL starters.

    Diggs has proven he can, not only compete...but perform extremely well. A draft pick????....not so much.

    A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

    With NFL players...it's probably more like a good player in the hand is worth 20 college players in the bush.

    The Bills now have their "good player in the hand" and can STILL draft a WR in round three that, if it is so deep, can develop into another good player.

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    Re: Beane - "Diggs Is Our 1st Round Pick"

    Quote Originally Posted by notacon View Post
    No, it's not. Your opinions are toxic.

    I'll stick to the professional sports writers who are objective and realistic. Yours are just from a biased malcontent locked into an untenable and false bubble of cynicism and bullcrap.
    Lmao. It is not my opinion that the D played well enough to win and the O squandered their performances. It's objectively what happened on the field, just like it has been for the last 20 years.

    It is not my opinion that we can't beat the good teams. The only team that we beat that finished above .500 was the Titans, and that was before they made the QB change and started playing better. The only part that is my opinion is that we would have lost to them if Tannehill had played. It is objectively what happened on the field that we didn't beat any team that finished above .500. We struggled with the better teams just like we have for the past 20 years.

    And sportswriters being realistic and objective? Please, sportswriters get trashed for their negativity on this board all the time. And most of them don't pay enough attention to this team to know what's going on anyway. They cover the big cities and the winning teams because that's what gets them views.

    But anyway, if you don't understand the difference between fact and opinion, there's nothing I can do to help you.

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    Re: Beane - "Diggs Is Our 1st Round Pick"

    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    I really like Diggs, always did, and maybe.

    I don't buy into the issues with drafting one, because that's the same maybe, but younger and cheaper, and that's just how you build sustained success teams.

    Diggs was dandy in Minny. Will he be here ? Maybe. Could get hurt, could have no chemistry, could be a diva and cranky, maybe he's fine and yay.

    Same crap goes with a rookie. But you're relying on your scouting if you have confidence in them. I mean this isn't a random luck, teams find and get dominant receivers, so ah, why can't we ? As a GM, you're supposed to be identifying and drafting those perfect fit pieces as part of your sustained process long term, aren't you ?

    This is, again, the 4th year of a program and they've been unable to get a WR coming out of college (which is rich and deep with spread and air raid receivers), but need to get people others have found to fill a space they didn't plan for for some reason. I mean really ? You didn't think it was important like putting an o-line in front of your theoretical franchise gem QB ?

    They didn't even have a plan in place to develop Allen, who was so clearly obvious developmental. He had no o-line and receivers, no QB coach, no o-line coach ! They made terrible choices.

    In the 4th year of a program with everyone supposedly united, there's no excuse whatever for counting on other peoples draft picks. There just isn't. That's my worry. They swing wild and it's 50/50 if it works. Kelvin Benjamin, Vontae Davis, Anquan Boldin, Mike Tolbert, Chris Ivory, Keenan Robinson, Marshall Newhouse, yada yada.....

    Like I said, I really like Diggs, there no guarantee this is the same situation, and it's not on Allen if you have a dimwit OC calling long balls to the Fullback and failing to put a TE on the field in the right formation because you forgot JJ Watt.

    It's all on Daboll and I'm not so sure he's up to it. I mean the college scouting clearly isn't.

    That's honestly horrible.
    I can understand criticizing some of the moves but to say they haven't tried to address the Oline is false. They brought in many, many new faces, 4 of 5 starters were replaced.

    I think the cost certainty piece is being missed here. Draft a WR who might be good, or play a WR who has shown he is good. The number Allen will make will dwarf what Diggs makes. I get it sustained success is important but striking while the QB is cheap has been the MO of quite a few teams lately with some success.

    I'm with you on Daboll though, too many errors in key situations but lets not forget he has been able to manufacture some wide open TDs in the red zone. Some of those are all scheme and play design. I think he can grow too. Well I hope so.

    None of it matters if Allen can't hit the WRs, on time, in a position for YAC.

    In your opinion, is this do or die for McDermott and Beane?

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