Drew Rosenhaus is a Douche mop.
Drew Rosenhaus is a Douche mop.
Last edited by sukie; 05-27-2022 at 05:25 PM.
well I certainly won't argue about the owners being greedy. They're awful in that sense.Originally Posted by notacon
But you're absolutely wrong about being fans of players over the team. Free Agency has players changing teams all the time. We've had a lot of good players leave over the years, as has every other team. How many of those players did you watch after they moved to a new team? How many players not on the Bills do you actively follow and watch because you like them as a player even though they're not on our team?
Even more importantly: I love watching Josh Allen play football. But, if someone said "we can guarantee you a SB this year but only if Josh Allen is no longer on the team," then **** Josh Allen. I want a Super Bowl win. Obviously, that's an absurd scenario and we all know Josh Allen is our best chance to get a ring in the short term. But I would take a championship over any individual player any day. Why? Because we're fans of the team, not the player.
And when you say this:
"The job of the Bills management is to work within the rules the NFL and the NFLPA have agreed to, and field the best team they can", you're not wrong. The problem is that agents like Rosenhaus make that job a whole lot harder. They have to pay 53 guys with the same amount of money. If Poyer- or Allen, or Diggs, or whoever- gets a bigger slice of the pie, then there's less to pay everyone else. Poyer signed a contract. The Bills are working their cap with that number in mind. Now, Rosenhaus and Poyer want to change that number, which screws up what management is trying to do.
And yes, I understand that these guys have short careers and they need to try to get as much as they can while they still can. But it's not what's best for the team, and I care more about the team than any individual player. And, it'll always piss me off when they hold out on contracts that they willingly signed. Can you imagine doing that in any other profession?
"Hey, boss, um, I know I agreed to work for a certain amount, but it turns out I'm a lot better at this job than you thought I was, so you need to pay a lot more than what I agreed to or else I'm just not going to work."
It's absurd.
kgun12 (05-27-2022)
Did he not sign a contract?
BUFFALO BILLS SCHEDULE
09/08 @ Rams 8:20 pm 09/19 TITANS 7:15 pm 09/25 @ Dolphins 1:00 pm 10/02 @ Ravens 1:00 pm 10/09 STEELERS 8:20 pm 10/16 @ Chiefs 4:25 pm 10/30 PACKERS 8:20 pm 11/06 @ Jets 1:00 pm 11/13 VIKINGS 1:00 pm 11/20 BROWNS 1:00 pm 11/24 @ Lions 12:30 pm 12/01 @ Patriots 8:15 pm 12/11 JETS 1:00 pm 12/18 DOLPHINS TBD 12/24 @ Bears 1:00 pm 01/02 @ Bengals 8:30 pm 01/08 PATRIOTS TBD
I still think this works out.
notacon (05-28-2022)
Sometimes you gotta let em go.
Except that (bolded above) is NOT what Poyer has done....and your hypothetical is dishonest.
The discussion between the team and Poyer (as far as we know...to say otherwise is pure uninformed speculation) is about an EXTENSION of his contract that is ending after this season. NOT refusing to play under the final year of his present contra.
And I really don’t understand what you are trying to say when you write....”But you're absolutely wrong about being fans of players over the team. Free Agency has players changing teams all the time. We've had a lot of good players leave over the years, as has every other team. How many of those players did you watch after they moved to a new team? How many players not on the Bills do you actively follow and watch because you like them as a player even though they're not on our team?”
My statement (that you see to object to) that "And your statement that “...we aren't fans of individual players. We're fans of the Buffalo Bills” is proven to be wrong almost every day if you read the posts of so many posters....do I really have point out who (BTW...I’m not talking about you)???” is about the negativity directed at certain individual players that ignore the “team” aspect.
I have ZERO issue with free agency. The owners (before FA) acted more like plantation owners with the players being their slaves. I have no problem with the free movement of players as it benefits my team as much (or more, with a good organization like the Bills have) as it may hurt.
And I have NO PROBLEM with the players looking out for their own benefit. Just like ANY of us here would in the same situation.
As it is, the owners (actually the GM) can and DO get rid of players almost anytime they want. Thankfully, the guaranteed contract has reduced this (at least for some of the players) and it’s simply the reality that NFL football is a BUSINESS above all.
Poyer (or at least his wife) has said that he has accepted “team friendly” below market deals. And in the cash rich NFL, that is undoubtably true, considering the elite play of the All-Pro player.
Poyer will either get an extension, or not. That’s between the team and him. He deserves every penny he can get, and I am not gong to criticize him for doing so.
And there is zero evidence (that we know of) that he is not going to honor that contract.
To say otherwise is dishonest.
The most likely resolution is dependent on how many years the extension is for. Poyer is going to want more years than the Bills are (probably) willing to agree to.
In the end, I suspect they will work out a deal that is equitable to both sides.
Nobody says otherwise ....... honor the contract that you obviously signed.
Last edited by Woodman; 05-28-2022 at 04:45 PM.
I think Poyer plays out his contract this season then they let him walk.
Uhhhh....YOU said exactly that. Jesus. Own up to that you write!!!!
I don’t buy the idea that free agency and escalating salaries have an outsized effect of a Super Bowl window.
And the evidence supports my doubts.
Overthecap did a fairly extensive analysis on the rate of turnover for NFL teams.....
Roster Turnover in the NFL
Here are some of the pertinent conclusions.....
The first thing I wanted to look at was simply year by year roster churn. What I did was go back to 2013 and look at every teams roster at the end of the season and then see if that player was on the team the following season and/or the season after that. Here is how the numbers worked out on a league wide basis.
To say NFL rosters are unstable is certainly an understatement. On average only 56% of players return from one year to the next and two years out it is just around 35%. Here are the numbers when calculated on a team by team basis.
Period 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 Avg. One Year 59.7% 53.4% 59.4% 56.2% 53.4% 54.7% 58.7% 55.3% 56.4% Two Years 37.1% 34.7% 35.7% 33.3% 32.9% 36.2% 36.0% – 35.1%
So about a quarter of the teams will hold over 62% and usually one team a year is around 70%. Maybe with some of those teams there is some validity to the blind reliance on the current roster when looking toward the future. Two years out though?
Year 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 Avg. Avg. Retention 59.9% 53.6% 59.6% 56.6% 53.7% 54.9% 59.0% 55.5% 56.6% Max Retention 68.8% 69.8% 79.3% 71.2% 75.0% 68.3% 69.8% 69.8% 71.5% Min. Retention 36.1% 39.2% 41.8% 30.6% 23.7% 34.3% 43.2% 28.6% 34.7% Quartile 1 56.1% 48.6% 54.1% 51.5% 47.6% 50.0% 55.3% 52.4% 51.9% Quartile 2 61.8% 53.4% 59.4% 58.1% 56.9% 55.6% 60.0% 56.0% 57.7% Quartile 3 64.7% 58.7% 64.3% 62.1% 59.6% 61.8% 66.3% 59.9% 62.2%
Our top teams here barely average 50% retention of players. A quarter of the league is under 30%.
Year 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 Avg. Avg. Retention 37.1% 34.9% 35.9% 33.5% 33.2% 36.2% 36.2% 35.3% Max Retention 52.3% 51.5% 53.4% 49.2% 51.7% 50.8% 52.4% 51.6% Min. Retention 20.7% 21.1% 17.9% 14.1% 11.8% 15.9% 16.7% 16.9% Quartile 1 31.2% 29.9% 31.5% 29.0% 26.6% 30.5% 30.4% 29.9% Quartile 2 35.5% 34.5% 36.2% 35.6% 34.1% 38.7% 37.0% 35.9% Quartile 3 42.8% 39.1% 40.7% 38.0% 42.1% 42.0% 42.6% 41.1%
more...
Even MORE interesting is the reason causing the turnover....
The next thing I wanted to look at was the drivers of roster churn. I categorized the changes in a roster to be based on either salary considerations, front office decisions, or performance. The basis for salary inclusion is any contract that averaged at least $5M a year on a new team. A front office decision would be moving on from a sub $5M a year player who lands on another team. Performance is the category of players who simply do not find a NFL home once they are cut or their contract expires.
The performance numbers here are certainly high with about a quarter of a roster not having a NFL job the following season unless it was on a practice squad or for a short stint during the year. About 16% are lower salaried players who move teams and only 3% are really lost because they are “too expensive”. You can extrapolate the numbers for the 2nd year if you want but generally speaking about 7% of player losses come from contract concerns, around 35% decisions made by the staff, and the rest of the time it is because the player no longer has the ability to contribute in the NFL. The low salary numbers should also give caution to any player being sold to “take one for the team”. Teams rarely lose stars because of cost. They lose them because they are no longer playing at a star level.
2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 Avg. Salary 2.1% 2.4% 2.1% 3.1% 3.7% 4.1% 3.9% 3.9% 3.1% Decision 17.4% 15.9% 14.6% 16.6% 17.4% 17.5% 14.6% 17.6% 16.4% Performance 20.8% 28.4% 23.9% 24.1% 25.6% 23.7% 22.8% 23.3% 24.1%
Finally I wanted to look at roster stability of expensive players, often considered the “backbone” of the team. These are the most proven players in the NFL, but how do their futures work out? Here is a look at all players who average over $5 million a year and what their status was the next season (a pay cut means that their next contract no longer averages at least $5 million not just that the salary was reduced).
About 12% of the players who are expensive talents will wind up on a lower contract the following season while about 9% are cut and are out of the NFL. That means about a fifth of the “top” talents are not living up the expectations of the contract. The real numbers are more than that but teams are more limited with options for expensive players due to contractual guarantees, dead money on the cap, etc…
Year 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 Avg. Paycut 15.1% 11.1% 11.4% 10.6% 8.9% 10.8% 13.4% 16.9% 12.3% Out 7.8% 7.1% 10.0% 10.0% 9.8% 10.8% 10.8% 9.0% 9.4% Total 22.9% 18.3% 21.4% 20.6% 18.7% 21.6% 24.1% 25.9% 21.7%
“Salary” is responsible for only 3.1% of the turnover. “Performance” is THE most important reason....as it should be in such a competitive environment. I can guarantee that none of us have the same competitive conditions in our jobs with the ruthless turnover rates and tiny window of a “career”.
And “performance” is purely a decision of the management of the team and what their expectations are.
That means that players are at a distinct disadvantage in deciding if they can even stay on any given team. And I have no issue whatsoever with a player, who performs at an extremely high level, trying to get all the money that his skill level deserves.
The old saying goes that N.F.L. stand for Not For Long.
And in such a volatile career (that averages only about 3 years) who are we to scoff at a player getting paid what he’s worth?!?!?
I also think there is “performance based on salary” component. Bang for your buck as it were.
He should play out his current contract IMO and then it's up to the Bills and the rest of the league if he's earned the increase he seeks. If he doesn't just sit it out 1st ..... which would be insane of course.
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...miss-minicamp/
Safety Jordan Poyer has not been at the voluntary portions of the Bills’ offseason program, but the team expects to see him at next week’s mandatory minicamp.
General Manager Brandon Beane said at a Tuesday press conference that he has not spoken directly to Poyer in recent days, but that he has not received any indication that the safety will be absent from the minicamp. Poyer would be subject to fines from the team if he does miss any of those practice sessions and that makes it all the likelier that he’ll be at the team’s facility.
At this point, I kinda hope not. Not anything against Poyer, but if we're going to be a true contender for more than a single season window we have to show the ability to draft and develop replaceable talent when and where it is needed. Losing Poyer would be a good measuring stick of that for the '23 season.
COMING SOON...
notacon (06-08-2022)
This.
This is what made New England so good for 20 plus years. Their ability to trade or cut players when the player's value was inflated by either the market, or the player's ego.
notacon (06-08-2022)
I’m encouraged by Beane’s history of doing what needs to be done.
Just this off season the cuts and refusal to sign so many players that had a lot of playing time last year......
Cut AJ Klein
Cut Beasley
Cut Feliciano
Cut Star Lotulelei
Cut Daryl Williams
FA did not re-sign - Emmanuel Sanders
FA did not re-sign - Mario Addison
FA did not re-sign - Jerry Hughes
FA did not re-sign - Levi Wallace
These were not marginal players cut from the practice squad or not on active roster (healthy scratch) for any games. All of these players had substantial snap counts. Lowest % of snap counts was AJ Klein at 25.&%....and two players had over 90%....Williams at 97.83% and Levi Wallace at 92.21%.
That shows that the Bills management is doing exactly what you describe....."ability to trade or cut players when the player's value was inflated by either the market, or the player's ego.”
I have no idea what the future is for Jordan Poyer, but I have no doubt that Brandon Beane will do what’s best for the team and is not afraid to walk away from players that do not make sense financially or performance wise.
How are you going to feel about Beane if next year that list says did not re-sign Tremaine Edmunds?
Fine.
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