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Thread: Punter Matt Araiza

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    Re: Punter Matt Araiza

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobylal View Post
    Yes I agree he won't have any problem holding. But if he proves to be good at the stuff you listed above but can't master holding, they're not going to cut him and will instead have someone else hold. Again, Keenum's done it before and can easily get a few plays in here and there.
    Sorry, but that is a red herring. How will you know that he can’t “master" holding??? Your “proof” will be that another player holds (which is 99.99999999% unlikely).

    And if what is 99.99999999% likely to happen, that he makes the team easily and does hold, it is NOT proof that he “mastered” holding.

    What will be proven is that whoever the Bills punter is come this session, he WILL be holding.

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    Re: Punter Matt Araiza

    Quote Originally Posted by notacon View Post
    Sorry, but that is a red herring. How will you know that he can’t “master" holding??? Your “proof” will be that another player holds (which is 99.99999999% unlikely).

    And if what is 99.99999999% likely to happen, that he makes the team easily and does hold, it is NOT proof that he “mastered” holding.

    What will be proven is that whoever the Bills punter is come this session, he WILL be holding.
    If Arazia wins the punting job but someone else holds (like Keenum), it's pretty obvious he can't hold. If he wins the job and holds, it's also pretty obvious he can (if you want to argue semantics on whether he "mastered holding," be my guest). You are saying the former is impossible. I'm saying it's not. Hopefully we don't find out.
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    Re: Punter Matt Araiza

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobylal View Post
    If Arazia wins the punting job but someone else holds (like Keenum), it's pretty obvious he can't hold. If he wins the job and holds, it's also pretty obvious he can (if you want to argue semantics on whether he "mastered holding," be my guest). You are saying the former is impossible. I'm saying it's not. Hopefully we don't find out.
    Yes. I am saying that it is impossible that the Bills will have anyone beside the punter holding.

    And yes, it will not even be as issue because Araiza will “master holding”.

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    Re: Punter Matt Araiza

    Quote Originally Posted by notacon View Post
    Yes. I am saying that it is impossible that the Bills will have anyone beside the punter holding.

    And yes, it will not even be as issue because Araiza will “master holding”.
    It's not impossible. It's not even improbable. But I agree with your last statement and will leave it at that.

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    Re: Punter Matt Araiza

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobylal View Post
    It's not impossible. It's not even improbable. But I agree with your last statement and will leave it at that.
    It is absolutely “improbable” and I believe “impossible”. Although I guess it’s not “impossible” that the Earth will blow up into a million pieces before opening day this season.

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    Re: Punter Matt Araiza

    Quote Originally Posted by notacon View Post
    It is absolutely “improbable” and I believe “impossible”. Although I guess it’s not “impossible” that the Earth will blow up into a million pieces before opening day this season.
    Or worse at the Super Bowl this season that we lead 35-3 at the half.
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    Re: Punter Matt Araiza

    Quote Originally Posted by notacon View Post
    It is absolutely “improbable” and I believe “impossible”. Although I guess it’s not “impossible” that the Earth will blow up into a million pieces before opening day this season.
    As awesome as that would be.

    I'm going to start selling space suits with a free subscription to Patriot Buckets.

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    Re: Punter Matt Araiza

    Quote Originally Posted by notacon View Post
    It is absolutely “improbable” and I believe “impossible”. Although I guess it’s not “impossible” that the Earth will blow up into a million pieces before opening day this season.
    It's not even improbable, much less impossible. If Araiza proves to be a better punter than Haack but can't hold (that's what's truly improbable), someone else will do it.

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    Re: Punter Matt Araiza

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobylal View Post
    It's not even improbable, much less impossible. If Araiza proves to be a better punter than Haack but can't hold (that's what's truly improbable), someone else will do it.
    Sure it is. You’ll see when the final roster comes out. There is NO WAY, WHATSOEVER that anyone except the punter (whoever that is) will be holding for the Bills.

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    Re: Punter Matt Araiza

    Quote Originally Posted by notacon View Post
    Sure it is. You’ll see when the final roster comes out. There is NO WAY, WHATSOEVER that anyone except the punter (whoever that is) will be holding for the Bills.
    Yes, because Araiza will be fine holding.

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    Re: Punter Matt Araiza

    Haack held for every Bass kick for the 2nd OTA Tuesday, today.

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    Re: Punter Matt Araiza

    If the season comes down to a blown hold or a bad punt, I'll probably go nuts about McDermott having choked again over other things, because they'll be what got us to that point anyway. Let's be realistic. Those kicks will come down to inadequate decisions on defense or offense, and I think by now we all pretty much realize it. This team should win games, or won't, and there's no reason it should come down to a player letting one slip away when the coach wasn't stepping on the gas. I guarantee you if they get to that point of requiring a kick or a punt, they messed up other things to get there and choked down to trying to eke one out with a sissy prevent and one too many running plays at the wrong time without a good grasp of timeouts and clock management.

    This isn't a team made to be timid.
    Last edited by Mace; 05-31-2022 at 10:32 PM.

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    Re: Punter Matt Araiza

    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    If the season comes down to a blown hold or a bad punt, I'll probably go nuts about McDermott having choked again over other things, because they'll be what got us to that point anyway. Let's be realistic. Those kicks will come down to inadequate decisions on defense or offense, and I think by now we all pretty much realize it. This team should win games, or won't, and there's no reason it should come down to a player letting one slip away when the coach wasn't stepping on the gas. I guarantee you if they get to that point of requiring a kick or a punt, they messed up other things to get there and choked down to trying to eke one out with a sissy prevent and one too many running plays at the wrong time without a good grasp of timeouts and clock management.

    This isn't a team made to be timid.
    This could happen in week 3 in Miami or in week 5 against the Steelers or any game early on or late in the season where a rookie mistake costs us from getting home field advantage. Love this kids leg but right now I have more faith in Haack to not screw up another opportunity.

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    Re: Punter Matt Araiza

    Quote Originally Posted by notacon View Post
    Yes. I am saying that it is impossible that the Bills will have anyone beside the punter holding.

    And yes, it will not even be as issue because Araiza will “master holding”.
    why would it be impossible someone other then the punter holding? Many teams will use backup QBs to hold for FG. Frank Reich was the Bills primary holder for nearly a decade, even when he was starting due to an injury to Jim Kelly he would hold. Remember Tony Romo's first year as a starting QB? He was the primary holder for the Cowboys as well, which lead to that gaff in the playoffs where he botched the snap.
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    Re: Punter Matt Araiza

    Quote Originally Posted by Ingtar33 View Post
    why would it be impossible someone other then the punter holding? Many teams will use backup QBs to hold for FG. Frank Reich was the Bills primary holder for nearly a decade, even when he was starting due to an injury to Jim Kelly he would hold. Remember Tony Romo's first year as a starting QB? He was the primary holder for the Cowboys as well, which lead to that gaff in the playoffs where he botched the snap.
    Let me save Notty 3 inches. Yes backups held for a long while. It took them away from working with the offense in practice so the punter who is also a special teamer was adopted by clubs as holder, now all clubs use the punter. And some believe that is cemented in stone and no further change will ever come to pass. (Football also never had passes thus the name and hockey didn’t allow the puck to leave the ice for decades.) changes happen except with the holder which shall from this day forward, For all of eternity, be (drum roll) the punter.

    Good day to you sir.
    Last edited by sukie; 06-01-2022 at 12:03 PM.

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    Re: Punter Matt Araiza

    Quote Originally Posted by Ingtar33 View Post
    why would it be impossible someone other then the punter holding? Many teams will use backup QBs to hold for FG. Frank Reich was the Bills primary holder for nearly a decade, even when he was starting due to an injury to Jim Kelly he would hold. Remember Tony Romo's first year as a starting QB? He was the primary holder for the Cowboys as well, which lead to that gaff in the playoffs where he botched the snap.
    Ok then, who is the holder going to be if Araiza isn't the one?

    Through the past two Tuesday OTAs, Haack has been the ONLY holder for Bass. Surely we're not having two punters on the final roster.

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    Re: Punter Matt Araiza

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    Re: Punter Matt Araiza

    Quote Originally Posted by Ingtar33 View Post
    why would it be impossible someone other then the punter holding? Many teams will use backup QBs to hold for FG. Frank Reich was the Bills primary holder for nearly a decade, even when he was starting due to an injury to Jim Kelly he would hold. Remember Tony Romo's first year as a starting QB? He was the primary holder for the Cowboys as well, which lead to that gaff in the playoffs where he botched the snap.
    That is false. NO team does. None, Nada. Zero.


    The fact that you have to go back THIRTY YEARS shows how out of touch and out-of-date your argument is. And Tony Romo example is even more irrelevant.

    The 2006 season opens with Romo the primary backup to starter Drew Bledsoe. He replaced Bledsoe at halftime week 7 against the Giants and took over as the starter the rest of the year.. It was relatively common SIXTEEN YEARS AGO, for backup QB’s to hold.

    Of course, when Romo took over the starting position, he continued to hold because messing with the special teams partners that late in the season would have been coaching malpractice.

    In the playoffs that year, Tony Romo committed one of the most famous, and disastrous, FG holding debacles in (at least) Cowboys history. Botching the hold for the game winning FG knocking the Cowboys out of the playoffs. The Cowboys went to the punter holding in 2010. I cannot find if Romo continued to hold in 2007 or thereafter, but I doubt it.

    NO TEAM, not ONE uses ANYONE except the punter to hold for kicks in TODAY’S game.


    And that change took almost universal hold in the NFL in 2011 when there was a rule change, that allowed a team to dress a third QB who could enter the game only in emergencies. That shifted the roster strategy to only have two QB’s active in any game.

    The primary backup QB is much too important to spend any time practicing holding....his primary concentration is to be the backup QB. And a HUGE part of that job is to work as the opposing QB in practice, which gives him all important reps.

    I believe it is impossible for the Bills to break that reality. It would take coaching malpractice to use Foles as the holder, and even WORSE to use Barkley and waste a roster spot.

    So, yes, it is impossible that the Bills will use anyone except the punter to hold.

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    Re: Punter Matt Araiza

    Quote Originally Posted by sahlensguy View Post
    This could happen in week 3 in Miami or in week 5 against the Steelers or any game early on or late in the season where a rookie mistake costs us from getting home field advantage. Love this kids leg but right now I have more faith in Haack to not screw up another opportunity.
    Sure it could. But if the Bills come out with less than a buzzsaw offense and Von Miller-ish defense, they dorked up more things than the kicking game.

    They need to do this right this time, and it won't come down to squeaking one out unless they messed up something else they didn't have to, imho.

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    Re: Punter Matt Araiza

    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    Sure it could. But if the Bills come out with less than a buzzsaw offense and Von Miller-ish defense, they dorked up more things than the kicking game.

    They need to do this right this time, and it won't come down to squeaking one out unless they messed up something else they didn't have to, imho.
    I'm tempering my expectations some. Miller is a 33 year old closer. Dorsey is an inexperienced coordinator. It may be a few games before we are in dominating every opposition. A game or two may very well come down to rookie mistakes.

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