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Thread: Mac Jones supposedly took a big step forward

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    Re: Mac Jones supposedly took a big step forward

    Quote Originally Posted by swiper View Post
    Agree strongly with your comments on Daboll (or Keyshawn's). And while you are right about what appears to be the OC/play-calling situation in NE, I said the other day two things: Belichick is still the best ever coach in the NFL and it's his playbook more than the OC on that team. Not every team, but on that team. I think they'll be fine. It looks like they'll slowly slide Judge into that OC space and go from there. You, I, and everyone know not to ever count Belichick out. Will the Bills beat the Patriots? I think so, but it won't necessarily be easy.

    This year, in particular, I will be much more interested in how the other 3 AFC East teams play against each other. The Jets seem to have their first decent coach in a long time and have loaded themselves with physical talent. That team goes as their young QB goes. Miami I just don't see being so great, but I understand they have a couple of special players. Their QB isn't as good as they are selling. And the Patriots are going bout their post-Brady years in a pragmatic manner. I think the Patriots will go as goes their defense. If they can stop teams like Miami and NYJ, then they can have a decent season. I think the people calling Mac Jones garbage are just nuts.
    Belicheater is the greatest defensive mind in NFL history. The reason he finally found enormous success was lucking into a great QB like Brady, who took care of the offense. Jones is a middling talent who is better than a broken-down Cam Newton, but far from a Brady, which is what Belicheater needs to dominate the division again. And they still have no answer for Josh (except for gale force windy games).

    Quote Originally Posted by Typ0 View Post
    People writing off the Pats are nuts. That team demonstrated 4X the resilience of the Bills last season. They kept coming and coming and coming and coming. They won SEVERAL games on sheer will alone. They didn't have the talent in the end which does play out -- however, you add some skills and talent to that squad and they are dangerous if they come with the same fierce competitive and consistent spirit they had last season.
    They've only gotten worse over the off-season. While the rest of the division has gotten better.
    "You're more likely to make a lot of money if you work hard than if you don't."-Spartacus

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    Re: Mac Jones supposedly took a big step forward

    Mac Jones is not Tom Brady.

    Mac Jones will never be Tom Brady.

    Mac Jones may or may not be a good NFL QB. We won't know for at least another season or 2.

    Without Tom Brady, the Patriots, and Bill B., are a borderline playoff team. They had no business on a playoff field with the Bills last year.

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    Re: Mac Jones supposedly took a big step forward

    Quote Originally Posted by swiper View Post
    He was #13 OVERALL IN THE NFL as a rookie. Look again. Look at the stats I posted.
    I think you mean 'stat,' as in the singular statistic you posted...passing yards. I wonder if there's more to it than that single stat? Really he was 17th in yards per game, which is a better stat than total passing yards.

    AFC QBs I would take over Mac Jones this year:

    Mahomes
    Carr
    Wilson
    Herbert
    Allen
    Burrow
    Jackson
    Watson
    Ryan
    Tannehill

    Imagine getting worked up over Mac Jones and his 220 yards per game.

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    Re: Mac Jones supposedly took a big step forward

    Pats aren't really surrounding him with much. Miami is going for it now and the Jets draft shows they are actually trying to build towards something, long term.

    I have no idea what the Pats are doing, other than aiming for last place in a year or two.
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    Re: Mac Jones supposedly took a big step forward

    LOL. Nobody ever said Mac Jones is Tom Brady. But the system that exists there will let them flourish. The Patriots had another Patriot draft, they usually are underwhelming. And they lost their OC. They lost him before. They'll get over it. Nobody ever said they were going to win the division. Geezus. He did much better than expect without much around him last season. Some folks struggle with reality here.

    I think you mean 'stat,' as in the singular statistic you posted...passing yards. I wonder if there's more to it than that single stat?
    And this is just ridiculous. Look AGAIN. And remember he was a rookie. So #17 out fo 32 teams is pretty damned good. LOOK at completion percentage. Jones was #8. Josh Allen was #24. Allen looks slack. You have to complete a pass before you do anything else. Jones looks great at it. OK. So you're going to tell me... "Oh Belichick had him throwing a bunch of short passes." AGAIN, Jones #14 in the NFL. Josh Allen a sad #24. 22 TDS/13 INT took 28 sacks. He had a very good rookie year.

    Again, nobody said he was Brady or Rodgers - but a few of you clowns lack the ability to see how decently he performed. To say this is just stupid:

    Imagine getting worked up over Mac Jones and his 220 yards per game.
    LOL. Way to cherry pick stats to try and force your point. Doesn't work. Allen only averaged 26 yards a game more. What is that? One? Two completions? Jones beat Allen by a lot in the stats I cited.

    And, again, my original point wasn't that he was Tom Brady - it was that the Patriots are NOT an automatic two wins for the Bills. Especially with McDermott's continued questionable in-game faux pas.

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    Re: Mac Jones supposedly took a big step forward

    Swiper, nobody is an automatic win in the NFL. Anyone with a brain knows that.

    Jacksonville beat the Bills last year. That's enough said about that. Divisional opponents rarely roll over and die, unless it's the Bills vs Patriots from approx 2000-2018

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    Re: Mac Jones supposedly took a big step forward

    Quote Originally Posted by Night Train View Post
    Pats aren't really surrounding him with much. Miami is going for it now and the Jets draft shows they are actually trying to build towards something, long term.

    I have no idea what the Pats are doing, other than aiming for last place in a year or two.
    Agreed! Dolphins is pulling out all the stops.

    We'll see what BB has up his sleeve if anything.

    BUFFALO BILLS SCHEDULE

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    12/11 JETS 1:00 pm
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    01/08 PATRIOTS TBD


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    Re: Mac Jones supposedly took a big step forward

    Quote Originally Posted by OpIv37 View Post
    For once, we actually agree. I do think the Bills are currently better than the Pats, and should win the division, but Mac Jones can't be dismissed. I highly doubt he'll dominate us the way Brady did, especially with us having Allen. I could see him being a thorn in our side though, maybe taking a game from us and screwing up our playoff positioning.

    He plays for the Evil Empire and it would be great if we could dismiss him, but he won 10 games as a rookie.
    Actually, we agree more than disagree. We just have a different outlook where Iím an optimist and you are a pessimist. Itís easy to be a pessimist as a long suffering Bills fan.

    The quote from Farve was illustrative of the reality in the NFL. Rookies donít know **** when they enter the league. This is particularly interesting when so many ďfansĒ think they are know-it-alls, when, in fact, even the players that have been football stars from the time they were very young, admit that the NFL game is a whole different solar system.

    I digress....yeah....you are spot on....itís silly to dismiss Mac Jones. He is in one of the best organizations in the NFL. As much as I hate the Pats, it is impossible not to admire what they have accomplished.

    Tom Brady on any other team, may never have become the GOAT that we know today.

    I believe that the Bills will NEVER be dominated like they were with the Pats because the Bills of today are as good a quality run franchise as the Pats have been for years.

    That was not the case for the first 54 years of the Bills existence. Football is the ultimate TEAM sport. And the owner, coaches, GM, scouts and all the other parts of the organization have to work together to produce consistent greatness. The Bills hardly ever enjoyed that synergy. When they came close, Ralph Wilson could not stand it and stupidly fired Polian in a power struggle.

    With Josh Allen....a singularly unique and rare talent, that has been developed perfectly by the Bills family, we have a chance to be as dominating as the Pats were for all those years.

    As for this upcoming season, I expect Miami to be the threat, not the Pats. If Tua shows just a slightly higher degree of the potential he has, they will be a very hard team to beat.

    Thankfully, the Bills, and Josh Allen, act like they have their number....just like Brady and the Pats had the Bills number for the better part of two decades.

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    Re: Mac Jones supposedly took a big step forward

    Quote Originally Posted by Forward_Lateral View Post
    Mac Jones is not Tom Brady.

    Mac Jones will never be Tom Brady.


    Mac Jones may or may not be a good NFL QB. We won't know for at least another season or 2.

    Without Tom Brady, the Patriots, and Bill B., are a borderline playoff team. They had no business on a playoff field with the Bills last year.
    You can say the same thing about probably 90% (maybe more) of the QB’s in the NFL.


    And I agree with you 100% that "Mac Jones may or may not be a good NFL QB. We won't know for at least another season or 2.”....that’s pretty much what you can say about 99% of the rookie QB’s in the NFL.


    But, to dismiss Mac Jones (or any other QB...and I know you are not doing so) after one year, is just plain silly. It’s fairly clear that the reason why Jones had the success he did last year (10 wins in the NFL is a very difficult task no matter what teams you play against) was the combination of his calmness and maturity with superior decision making skill, combined with the guidance of Bill Belichick.


    I hope Jones falls flat on his face and the Pats have to resort to searching for a QB like the Bills did for over 20 years. I’m also not delusional enough to think that will happen.
    Last edited by notacon; 05-25-2022 at 02:31 PM.

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    Re: Mac Jones supposedly took a big step forward

    Quote Originally Posted by swiper View Post
    So you're going to tell me... "Oh Belichick had him throwing a bunch of short passes."
    The only thing I'm going to tell you is that Mac Jones sucks.

    Quote Originally Posted by swiper View Post
    LOL. Way to cherry pick stats to try and force your point. Doesn't work. Allen only averaged 26 yards a game more. What is that? One? Two completions? Jones beat Allen by a lot in the stats I cited.
    I'm not going to compare Mac Jones to Josh Allen, because that's absurd. One guy sucks and the other is in the conversation of being the best QB in the league.


    Which AFC QBs would you take Mac Jones over this season if Mac Jones is top 10 in the AFC? Since that's the statement that got you out of bed.

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    Re: Mac Jones supposedly took a big step forward

    Quote Originally Posted by notacon View Post
    You can say the same thing about probably 90% (maybe more) of the QB’s in the NFL.


    And I agree with you 100% that "Mac Jones may or may not be a good NFL QB. We won't know for at least another season or 2.”....that’s pretty much what you can say about 99% of the rookie QB’s in the NFL.


    But, to dismiss Mac Jones (or any other QB...and I know you are not doing so) after one year, is just plain silly. It’s fairly clear that the reason why Jones had the success he did last year (10 wins in the NFL is a very difficult task no matter what teams you play against) was the combination of his calmness and maturity with superior decision making skill, combined with the guidance of Bill Belichick.


    I hope Jones falls flat on his face and the Pats have to resort to searching for a QB like the Bills did for over 20 years. I’m also not delusional enough to think that will happen.
    That's today's fanbase, mediabase and front office in a nutshell now. If the QB doesn't show something after 2 years, they almost always move on. It's wild to think that guys like Steve Young took a long, long time to develop into a HOF QB. If he was a QB now, I don't know if he'd even get a shot.

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    Re: Mac Jones supposedly took a big step forward

    Quote Originally Posted by Forward_Lateral View Post
    That's today's fanbase, mediabase and front office in a nutshell now. If the QB doesn't show something after 2 years, they almost always move on. It's wild to think that guys like Steve Young took a long, long time to develop into a HOF QB. If he was a QB now, I don't know if he'd even get a shot.
    It's because of the cap and free agency. You can't keep a team together for very long anymore.

    As far as Jones, I'm looking at it this way: The Pats just went on an incredible 18 year run with Brady. During that time, the Bills, Jets and Dolphins couldn't manage one good QB between the 3 of them. The Bills went 20 years between Kelly and Allen. The Fish haven't found a replacement for Marino yet, going on 25 years. The Jets haven't had a good QB in my lifetime. The Pats and their fans have to be happy with Jones' progress so far. Sure, he could still bust. But the early signs are good.

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    Re: Mac Jones supposedly took a big step forward

    BB wasn’t doing anything with Mac Jones in regard to developing him. He’s a D guy.

    If Credit is given Dabol for JA17 development, why is Bill getting credit and not McDaniels for Mac12?

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    Re: Mac Jones supposedly took a big step forward

    Oh no! We're going to be in last place of our division for the next 20 years again! It's not like we don't have Josh Allen or anything. Y'all need to quit this patriots PTSD. It was never the "patriot" way. It was and always will be the Tom Brady way. Move on.
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    Re: Mac Jones supposedly took a big step forward

    Quote Originally Posted by BillsFanCupp38 View Post
    Oh no! We're going to be in last place of our division for the next 20 years again! It's not like we don't have Josh Allen or anything. Y'all need to quit this patriots PTSD. It was never the "patriot" way. It was and always will be the Tom Brady way. Move on.
    They won 10 games with a rookie QB last year. They were only one game behind us for the division and they made the playoffs.

    No one is saying we don't have Josh Allen or that we're going to be in last place.

    The problem is that some people are trying to write off Mac Jones and, based on his performance last year, it's simply too early to do that. There's still a decent chance that he becomes a decent QB. Will he be the next Brady or as good as Allen? I highly doubt it. But he's probably going to be a bust either.

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    Re: Mac Jones supposedly took a big step forward

    Quote Originally Posted by OpIv37 View Post
    No one is saying we don't have Josh Allen or that we're going to be in last place.
    Your namby-pamby predictions have us starting 2-5 this year, before we even play the big bad Patriots, so yeah you kind of are saying we're going to be bad.

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    Re: Mac Jones supposedly took a big step forward

    I'll worry about it if he proves it in the field

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    Re: Mac Jones supposedly took a big step forward

    Quote Originally Posted by Forward_Lateral View Post
    That's today's fanbase, mediabase and front office in a nutshell now. If the QB doesn't show something after 2 years, they almost always move on. It's wild to think that guys like Steve Young took a long, long time to develop into a HOF QB. If he was a QB now, I don't know if he'd even get a shot.
    It IS wild. Even looking at the Farve, Rodgers situation looks quite quaint by 2020ís standards.

    I remember those old days of no cap, and relatively paltry contracts....even for QBís.

    Jim Kelly (as every Bills fan knows) was drafted in 1983. Ralph Wilson, being the ****ty cheapskate owner he was, refused to pay Jim what he was worth and let him play in the USFL for three years.

    Then the Bills hung on with an aging Joe Ferguson at QB with a 8-8 record in 1983 (3rd place out of 5 in the AFC East), it all fell apart the next two years with consecutive 2-14 records on 1984 & 1985. Ferguson retired after the 1984 season, as he only started 11 games and went 1-10.

    Joe Dufek started the other 5 games and went 1-4.

    1985 had the debacle of Vince Ferragamo (9 starts, 1-8 record) and Bruce Mathison (7 starts, 1-6 record) and Kay Stephenson being fired as HC during the season. In 1986 (even with Jim Kelly finally playing QB) Hank Bullough was fired (he replaced Stephenson) doing the season and Marv Levy was brought in.


    A full fledged fan revolt took place after 1985, and Wilson was backed against the wall, and FINALLY gave in and paid Jim Kelly.

    He signed him to (at that time) the highest-paid player in NFL history to a five-year, $7.5 million contract. That is the equivalent of $19.1M in 2021 dollars.....or, only $3.82M PER YEAR!!!


    The Bills were still a **** show in Kellyís first year, with a 4-12 record. 1987 was not much better at 7-8. It wasnít until 1988 that they started to mesh and explode to a 14-2 record, losing the AFC Conference Championship that year.

    Opi is correct that the ďcap and free agencyĒ has effected how patient teams are with QBís, but it goes beyond that. The insane (but WELL DESERVED) explosion of pay to, not only the QB, but the best players on the team means you have to determine within the first four years (assuming the QB is a 1st round pick) before they make that 5th year option decision.

    I disagree with Opiís opinion of "You can't keep a team together for very long anymore.Ē.....you can. Albeit with juggling of the cap and how contracts are written. The LA Rams just showed how you can keep many, many very highly paid players on the roster along with an expertly highly paid vet QB.

    Yes, it is difficult, but not impossible.

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    Re: Mac Jones supposedly took a big step forward

    Todayís Athletic published a very good article about the 2021 NFL Draft QBís.

    The 2021 NFL Draft QBs: How Trevor Lawrence, Zach Wilson, Mac Jones and others can improve



    This is what they wrote about Mac Jones....


    With middling arm strength, Jones wins by operating with a quick internal clock and supreme accuracy, delivering throws on time and putting the ball in places only his receiver can come down with them. Those traits translated to the NFL right away, but Jones didnít lean too heavily on checkdowns. His 8.0 air yards per attempt ranked 12th in the NFL. He is very willing to push the ball downfield.

    The Patriots threw the whole playbook at Jones as a rookie, and he showed the ability to handle it. He audibled from one called play to another and called out protection points to help set up his offensive line. He also helped out his offensive line with great timing and pocket movement, as his sack rate of just 5.1 percent was the NFLís 10th best. Jones wonít make defenders miss in a phone booth, but he knows when to run. He recorded 22 first downs on 44 rushing attempts last season.


    It is worth mentioning Jones played in the best situation of any rookie QB who was a regular starter. The Patriots had a solid offensive line and were the sixth-most run-heavy offense in the NFL, according to rbsdm.com. On early downs, then-offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels leaned into heavy play-action plays that gave Jones a clean pocket from which to operate, and he was pressured on only 27.7 percent of his total dropbacks. That was the sixth-lowest rate in the league among qualified QBs, according to TruMedia.


    Jones might not have the crazy upside of some of the other quarterbacks in his class, but he knows how to win with timing and accuracy. Now itís up to the Patriots to settle on an offensive play caller so his game continues to grow. The additions of second-round pick Tyquan Thornton and veteran DeVante Parker give New England an explosive play element it lacked last season and should allow Jones to continue pushing the ball downfield often enough to force defenses to respect his ability to do so.


    Considering the woefully inadequate WRís the Pats had last year, itís surprising that Jones performed as well as he did. Devante Parker is a solid addition, but, thankfully, the Pats have not really addressed the WR position and have the worst group of WRís in the AFC East.

    Miami added Tyreek Hill in addition to Jaylen Waddle. Jets added highly touted Garrett Wilson to the competent Corey Davis.

    Of course the Bills have the best WR group in Diggs, Davis, Crowder and the promising Shakir.


    If they give Jones some more help, he can become a very solid NFL starting QB.

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    Re: Mac Jones supposedly took a big step forward

    No find fans are weeping for Parker being gone. He has frequent flier points on IR. Dude is glass. Last couple of years better but not reliable.

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