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Thread: Five scariest quarterbacks entering 2022 NFL season

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    Re: Five scariest quarterbacks entering 2022 NFL season

    Quote Originally Posted by notacon View Post
    BTW Cali, almost every single stat for both Allen and Mahomes favors Mahomes. Both for their career and each season.

    Your request for "one stat or reason that mahomes is in Allen’s ball park” is more, the only stat you have used is rushing stats to put forth the lunatic idea that "Allen is a much much better player than mahomes. It’s not that close”.

    NO ONE wants Josh Allen to continue to run the ball like he has been forced to because the Bills do not have an above average RB. Mahomes has even more
    ability to avoid the rush than Allen, but instead of running the ball upfield, Mahomes finds the open receiver to make big plays.

    Your premise is silly as it is void of facts or evidence.


    And the #1 thing: Mahomes has won the Super Bowl once and the AFC twice.

    Don't get me wrong. I like Allen. I'm glad he's on our team and I think we have a better shot at winning with him at QB than we'd have with anyone else in the league. But, until Allen beats Mahomes on the field and brings home some hardware, it's hard to argue that he's better.

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    Re: Five scariest quarterbacks entering 2022 NFL season

    I would absolutely take Josh over Mahomes. But I'd take Reid and Spagnuolo over McD and Frazier.
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    Re: Five scariest quarterbacks entering 2022 NFL season

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobylal View Post
    LOL! Hill will be a huge loss. Mahomes has been playing with him since he entered the league and Hill had 1183 yards in 15 games in 2017 playing with Alex Smith as his starter.
    I think the bigger effect is Hill is going to become an afterthought in the league playing in Miami. Great receivers play their whole careers on bad teams and/or with bad QBs waiting to hit it big. Hill walked out on that.

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    Re: Five scariest quarterbacks entering 2022 NFL season

    Quote Originally Posted by swiper View Post
    I think the bigger effect is Hill is going to become an afterthought in the league playing in Miami. Great receivers play their whole careers on bad teams and/or with bad QBs waiting to hit it big. Hill walked out on that.
    Well to hear him talk, he made Mahomes. We'll see because Tua isn't even at Alex Smith's level. And we'll also see if Kelce was the #1 receiver that Hill needed to take attention away from him, like JuJu Smith-Schuster needed in that nutjob Antonio Brown.

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    Re: Five scariest quarterbacks entering 2022 NFL season

    Mahomes has been awesome, but to me Hill and Kelce were the scarier players at their respective positions, and Mahomes has benefited from that. If you're just looking at QBs on their own with all things being equal, I have a hard time picking anyone other than Allen for scariest. He has the best overall combination of traits and play making ability.

    I'm really high on Justin Herbert too. I thought he had a good chance of being a bust, but I think he's going to quickly become someone that people are scared to face. And when Lamar Jackson is healthy and on he scares me a ton.

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    Re: Five scariest quarterbacks entering 2022 NFL season

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed View Post
    Mahomes has been awesome, but to me Hill and Kelce were the scarier players at their respective positions, and Mahomes has benefited from that. If you're just looking at QBs on their own with all things being equal, I have a hard time picking anyone other than Allen for scariest. He has the best overall combination of traits and play making ability.

    I'm really high on Justin Herbert too. I thought he had a good chance of being a bust, but I think he's going to quickly become someone that people are scared to face. And when Lamar Jackson is healthy and on he scares me a ton.
    I think that the league has caught onto Jackson. And durability looks like it's going to be an issue with him with how slight he is and how much he runs.

    As for Herbert, he's had studs around him his whole career. It will be interesting to see the Chargers when he's eating-up 20% of their cap after next season. And it will be interesting to see if franchise QBs (like him) demand fully guaranteed contracts, now that Watson got the first one.

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    Re: Five scariest quarterbacks entering 2022 NFL season

    Josh is much scarier than Mahomes ..... Mahomes has a SB title to his credit as was pointed out .... however apples to apples you would need to place Josh Allen on the Chiefs during the same period and I would bet he'd have no less than 3 SB titles to his credit by now .... and that is definitely more than 1.
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    Re: Five scariest quarterbacks entering 2022 NFL season

    Quote Originally Posted by Woodman View Post
    Josh is much scarier than Mahomes ..... Mahomes has a SB title to his credit as was pointed out .... however apples to apples you would need to place Josh Allen on the Chiefs during the same period and I would bet he'd have no less than 3 SB titles to his credit by now .... and that is definitely more than 1.
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    Re: Five scariest quarterbacks entering 2022 NFL season

    Quote Originally Posted by notacon View Post
    BTW Cali, almost every single stat for both Allen and Mahomes favors Mahomes. Both for their career and each season.

    Your request for "one stat or reason that mahomes is in Allen’s ball park” is more, the only stat you have used is rushing stats to put forth the lunatic idea that "Allen is a much much better player than mahomes. It’s not that close”.

    NO ONE wants Josh Allen to continue to run the ball like he has been forced to because the Bills do not have an above average RB. Mahomes has even more
    ability to avoid the rush than Allen, but instead of running the ball upfield, Mahomes finds the open receiver to make big plays.

    Your premise is silly as it is void of facts or evidence.




    nfl goes in 2 year intervals. In the last 2 years, passing they are equal. And don’t give me some BS ypc stat to say mahomes is close to Allen rushing because he’s not. Total yards and TDs, Allen destroys Mahomes. Passing wise they are essentially the exact same


    try being a bills fan and not shifting on your own QB
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    Re: Five scariest quarterbacks entering 2022 NFL season

    *****ting

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    Re: Five scariest quarterbacks entering 2022 NFL season

    Quote Originally Posted by Cali512 View Post
    nfl goes in 2 year intervals. In the last 2 years, passing they are equal. And don’t give me some BS ypc stat to say mahomes is close to Allen rushing because he’s not. Total yards and TDs, Allen destroys Mahomes. Passing wise they are essentially the exact same


    try being a bills fan and not shifting on your own QB
    Jesus. I’m not ****ting on Josh Allen. Not in the least.

    I AM ****ting on your hyperbole and silliness ****ting on one of the best QB’s in the NFL., Mahomes.

    And, no, the NFL does NOT “goes on 2 year intervals”.....how dumb.

    The FACT is that Mahomes and Allen are two elite QBs. To say that one or the other is "Allen is a much much better player than mahomes. It’s not that close” is simply not credible.


    YPC for a QB is NOT “some BS stat”. Of COURSE Allen has more rushing yards and TD’s than Mahomes BECAUSE HE RAN MORE, mainly because the Bills had more designed runs by the QB because we don’t have an above average RB. It’s more an offensive philosophy than one QB being a “better player”.



    And lastly, for YOU to call me out by saying "
    try being a bills fan and not ****ting on your own QB” is mind numbingly hypocritical when YOU are the MAIN so-called "fan" that has continually and without credibility **** in Edmunds, stupidly saying that he is the worst MLB in the NFL and all the other lunatic **** you have been dishing out for years.

    Actually, the consistency is your terrible, dumb opinions, that are more trolling than intelligent discourse. ****ting on Mahomes is really, really dumb.

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    Re: Five scariest quarterbacks entering 2022 NFL season

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobylal View Post
    LOL! Hill will be a huge loss. Mahomes has been playing with him since he entered the league and Hill had 1183 yards in 15 games in 2017 playing with Alex Smith as his starter.
    I did not say that Hill would to be a “huge loss” to the TEAM. Jesus....I even said it could (along with other factors) cost them two wins this year.


    What I DID say was that losing Hill would not have a huge effect of Mahomes as an elite QB.

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    Re: Five scariest quarterbacks entering 2022 NFL season

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobylal View Post
    I would absolutely take Josh over Mahomes. But I'd take Reid and Spagnuolo over McD and Frazier.
    I have said many, many, many times that I would take Allen over Mahomes. That’s not the issue in my objection to Cali’s hyperbole in ****ting on one of the best QB’s in the NFL.


    There are just a handful of true “elite” QB’s in the NFL. (this thread was started with a different criteria....the “five scariest QB’s entering 2022...”)

    Allen
    Mahomes
    Rodgers
    Brady
    Russell Wilson
    Joe Burrow


    The most desirable of those six are, Allen, Mahomes and Burrow because they are youngsters and have probably a decade or more playing career ahead of them.

    To say that ANY of these six are a “much much better player than (fill in the blank form the others). It’s not that close” is dumb beyond measure.

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    Re: Five scariest quarterbacks entering 2022 NFL season

    Quote Originally Posted by OpIv37 View Post
    And the #1 thing: Mahomes has won the Super Bowl once and the AFC twice.

    Don't get me wrong. I like Allen. I'm glad he's on our team and I think we have a better shot at winning with him at QB than we'd have with anyone else in the league. But, until Allen beats Mahomes on the field and brings home some hardware, it's hard to argue that he's better.
    I mostly agree with you, but cannot give it full “thanks”.

    A QB is one of 22 players (plus special teams) and many coaches. If watching 60 years of NFL (and AFL) football has taught me anything is that football is the EPITOME of a TEAM game.

    Yes, especially in the last 20 years, the NFL is a QB dominated sport. And without one, you can almost kiss your Super Bowl dreams away.

    The last time a non-elite QB (that was the stater the full season) and won a Super Bowl was 20 years ago, Brad Johnson of Tampa Bay beat (another non-elite QB) Rich Gannon. Nick Foles is not an elite QB either, but he played at an elite level for just enough games to win. He only started three regular season games.


    This year we saw Matt Stafford, after being mired with consistently below average to terrible teams, win a Super Bowl because he changed to a very high level TEAM with high level coaches.. And Goff showed how average (to below average) he is as he was unable to lift the Lions out of the gutter.

    Additionally, what the domination of Tom Brady has taught us is that the combination of elite coaching, elite QB play and well above average team around the QB can and will produce champions.

    Josh Allen IS an “elite” QB. I believe he is the best QB to put on a Bills uniform (yes, better than Jim Kelly, bless him). I also believe Josh Allen is THE best QB in the NFL, via his extreme unique qualities that the NFL literally has never seen in one man.


    But, the difference between the top elite QB’s in the NFL is tiny. Just like the difference in many games are tiny. One missed catch....one missed tackle....one bad call by the refs....one lost coin toss....can and DO decide games and championships.

    It takes a village to produce a Super Bowl winner. And the Bills have got a really, really good village. All it takes is a little luck and a few bounces of the ball going our way to join the list of Super Bowl Champions.

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    Re: Five scariest quarterbacks entering 2022 NFL season

    Notty. If you don’t understand the nfl goes in 2 year intervals when it comes to grading out players, then idk what to say. 3 years ago Brady was on the patriots and was pretty average, 3 years ago Rodgers had an average season, 3 years ago we were wondering if Allen was our future. The nfl goes in 2 year intervals. You breakout, great, do it again, then your a top QB. It’s why Lamar has fallen off, it’s why wentz fell off. You look at players in 2 year intervals, it’s just how things work. In the last 2 years, Allen is the exact same QB as mahomes even though mahomes has 20% of his yards and TDs off gadget plays/screen passes and plays of 10 yards or under in air. Allen had 5% of his in those exact situations. Mahomes can’t do what Allen does, Allen runs more because he’s the best rushing QB in the nfl so it’s dumb to not run him. Mahomes is a Russel Wilson type runner, they just run when they have room. Allen can run through players


    I’m also not saying Allen is light years the best QB in the nfl. He’s just way better than mahomes. Mahomes is the 4th or 5th best QB in the nfl, Rodgers/Brady/Herbert are all neck and neck but Rodgers efficiency makes him neck and neck with allen. Mahomes can easily end up with a 25-15 QB/Int ratio this year with Hill gone.

    Mahomes is 50% him, and 50% Reid. Watch Mahomes TDs from the past 2 years. Literally 90% of the plays are screens/60 yd RAC/shovel passes/ wide open WRs. Then look at Allen’s and how every single TD is just a ****ing dime! Not to mention Allen’s rushing TDs. It’s not close notty

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    Re: Five scariest quarterbacks entering 2022 NFL season

    Weapons we don't have the very best.

    QB we have the best buy a far cry period.

    I'm just hoping our coaches don't hold us back.

    Working hard is great working smart is better.

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    Re: Five scariest quarterbacks entering 2022 NFL season

    Quote Originally Posted by Cali512 View Post
    Notty. If you don’t understand the nfl goes in 2 year intervals when it comes to grading out players, then idk what to say. 3 years ago Brady was on the patriots and was pretty average, 3 years ago Rodgers had an average season, 3 years ago we were wondering if Allen was our future. The nfl goes in 2 year intervals. You breakout, great, do it again, then your a top QB. It’s why Lamar has fallen off, it’s why wentz fell off. You look at players in 2 year intervals, it’s just how things work. In the last 2 years, Allen is the exact same QB as mahomes even though mahomes has 20% of his yards and TDs off gadget plays/screen passes and plays of 10 yards or under in air. Allen had 5% of his in those exact situations. Mahomes can’t do what Allen does, Allen runs more because he’s the best rushing QB in the nfl so it’s dumb to not run him. Mahomes is a Russel Wilson type runner, they just run when they have room. Allen can run through players


    I’m also not saying Allen is light years the best QB in the nfl. He’s just way better than mahomes. Mahomes is the 4th or 5th best QB in the nfl, Rodgers/Brady/Herbert are all neck and neck but Rodgers efficiency makes him neck and neck with allen. Mahomes can easily end up with a 25-15 QB/Int ratio this year with Hill gone.

    Mahomes is 50% him, and 50% Reid. Watch Mahomes TDs from the past 2 years. Literally 90% of the plays are screens/60 yd RAC/shovel passes/ wide open WRs. Then look at Allen’s and how every single TD is just a ****ing dime! Not to mention Allen’s rushing TDs. It’s not close notty
    Sorry buddy, it is YOU that "don’t understand the nfl goes”. You literally have no idea what you are talking about. All to support an unsustainable premise desperately trying to **** on easily one of the best if not THE best QB in the game since he burst in the NFL, Patrick Mahomes.

    NO PASSING STATS from the past two years, or of Allen and Mahomes careers support your trolling baloney.


    Here are the pertinent stats for QB’s for 2021 and 2020, plus their whole careers....and I have highlighted the better stat in
    red.....


    Mahomes 2021 Allen 2021
    Games/S 17 17
    Pass Att 658 646
    Pass Comp 436 409
    Cmp% 66.3 63.3
    Yards 4839 4407
    Avg Yds/A 7.4 6.8
    Avg Yard/C 11.1 10.8
    Avg Yds/G 284.6 259.2
    TD 37 36
    TD% 5.6 5.6
    INT 13 15
    INT% 2 2.3
    Rtg 98.5 92.2
    Mahomes 2020 Allen 2020
    Games/S 15 16
    Pass Att 588 572
    Pass Comp 390 396
    Cmp% 66.3 69.2
    Yards 4740 4577
    Avg Yds/A 8.1 7.9
    Avg Yard/C 12.2 11.5
    Avg Yds/G 316 284
    TD 38 37
    TD% 6.5 6.5
    INT 6 10
    INT% 1 1.7
    Rtg 108.2 107.2
    Mahomes Career Allen Career
    Games/S 63 60
    Pass Att 2345 1999
    Pass Comp 1550 1245
    Cmp% 66.1 62.3
    Yards 18991 14114
    Avg Yds/A 8.1 7.1
    Avg Yard/C 12.3 11.3
    Avg Yds/G 301.4 231.4
    TD 151 103
    TD% 6.4 5.2
    INT 37 46
    INT% 1.6 2.3
    Rtg 105.8 91

    There are 36 measurable stats to compare. Patrick Mahomes has the better stat in ALL BUT ONE of them. The ONLY stat that Allen betters Mahomes is completion percentage in 2021. (the number of passing attempts that Allen bested Mahomes by only six passes in 2020 is irrelevant since Allen played one more game than Mahomes).


    If you want to place running stats as being more important than ALL the passing stats (what QB’s are measured by and have been measured by since the beginning of professional football) (not to mention your refusal to even consider WON-LOST records) than it just shows how lacking in credibility some of your opinions are.


    Have at it if you must, but it’s just embarrassing for YOU. Just like the lunatic on his front lawn, waving his arms and howling at the moon.


    You are howling at the moon.

    Last edited by notacon; 07-01-2022 at 02:45 PM.

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    Re: Five scariest quarterbacks entering 2022 NFL season

    Quote Originally Posted by notacon View Post
    Sorry buddy, it is YOU that "don’t understand the nfl goes”. You literally have no idea what you are talking about. All to support an unsustainable premise desperately trying to **** on easily one of the best if not THE best QB in the game since he burst in the NFL, Patrick Mahomes.

    NO PASSING STATS from the past two years, or of Allen and Mahomes careers support your trolling baloney.


    Here are the pertinent stats for QB’s for 2021 and 2020, plus their whole careers....and I have highlighted the better stat in
    red.....


    Mahomes 2021 Allen 2021
    Games/S 17 17
    Pass Att 658 646
    Pass Comp 436 409
    Cmp% 66.3 63.3
    Yards 4839 4407
    Avg Yds/A 7.4 6.8
    Avg Yard/C 11.1 10.8
    Avg Yds/G 284.6 259.2
    TD 37 36
    TD% 5.6 5.6
    INT 13 15
    INT% 2 2.3
    Rtg 98.5 92.2
    Mahomes 2020 Allen 2020
    Games/S 15 16
    Pass Att 588 572
    Pass Comp 390 396
    Cmp% 66.3 69.2
    Yards 4740 4577
    Avg Yds/A 8.1 7.9
    Avg Yard/C 12.2 11.5
    Avg Yds/G 316 284
    TD 38 37
    TD% 6.5 6.5
    INT 6 10
    INT% 1 1.7
    Rtg 108.2 107.2
    Mahomes Career Allen Career
    Games/S 63 60
    Pass Att 2345 1999
    Pass Comp 1550 1245
    Cmp% 66.1 62.3
    Yards 18991 14114
    Avg Yds/A 8.1 7.1
    Avg Yard/C 12.3 11.3
    Avg Yds/G 301.4 231.4
    TD 151 103
    TD% 6.4 5.2
    INT 37 46
    INT% 1.6 2.3
    Rtg 105.8 91

    There are 36 measurable stats to compare. Patrick Mahomes has the better stat in ALL BUT ONE of them. The ONLY stat that Allen betters Mahomes is completion percentage in 2021. (the number of passing attempts that Allen bested Mahomes by only six passes in 2020 is irrelevant since Allen played one more game than Mahomes).


    If you want to place running stats as being more important than ALL the passing stats (what QB’s are measured by and have been measured by since the beginning of professional football) (not to mention your refusal to even consider WON-LOST records) than it just shows how lacking in credibility some of your opinions are.


    Have at it if you must, but it’s just embarrassing for YOU. Just like the lunatic on his front lawn, waving his arms and howling at the moon.


    You are howling at the moon.



    Thank you for making my point. They are virtually the exact same QB passing the ball and Allen is a much bigger threat and is our running game


    it’s like saying that a QB who’s Tom Brady is better than a QB who’s a mix of Tom Brady and Michael Vick. Thank you for making my argument for me and going through so much trouble doing so

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    Re: Five scariest quarterbacks entering 2022 NFL season

    Quote Originally Posted by OpIv37 View Post
    And the #1 thing: Mahomes has won the Super Bowl once and the AFC twice.

    Don't get me wrong. I like Allen. I'm glad he's on our team and I think we have a better shot at winning with him at QB than we'd have with anyone else in the league. But, until Allen beats Mahomes on the field and brings home some hardware, it's hard to argue that he's better.

    Agree. And they're deep into the danger zone of injury probability if they mean to keep running him.

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    Re: Five scariest quarterbacks entering 2022 NFL season

    Quote Originally Posted by The last buffalo fan View Post
    I concur!

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