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Thread: O-Line Analyzing from Ostroski

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    O-Line Analyzing from Ostroski

    They say Centers are really smart guys. I never thought that much of Ostroski back in the day (he retired and Donahoe called a surprising press conference for him, I thought at the time). But he does sound very intelligent in the video below.

    An interesting comment he made is about what we missed from Morse not being in the Miami game. Our backup center kind of gave away the snap count which directly resulted in Allen's first sack fumble.

    I also thought he had a very good observation on RT Spencer Brown not up to par, (not in mid-season form, which matches up to Brown missing all the preseason and most of the training camp), on the play resulted in the 2nd sack on Allen and fumble (recovered by Brown).

    He also broke down the 3rd and 22 play, noted the play design and pro-level execution by Waddle. He had the same conclusion I said in another thread on that play - the only way to stop that play is 4 man rush or a blitz to get to Tua before Waddle gets to the desired open state in this slow developing play.


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    Re: O-Line Analyzing from Ostroski

    Very, very insightful. He's spot on with Van Roten telegraphing snaps. That's something that someone should've picked up on during the game and instructed him on. You can't have that.

    He also had great points about the play at the end of the half. Josh can't spike it after bobbling it, or it would've been grounding and basically ended the half. They rarely take snaps under center, and this was with a backup, who's ass was likely soaked with sweat, which probably made the snap that much harder to handle. The fact that Josh knew the intentional grounding rule, and had the wherewithal to throw it to Diggs is somewhat impressive. It would've been more impressive if he threw it at Diggs' feet to stop the clock, but I digress.

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    Re: O-Line Analyzing from Ostroski

    I think Josh still has some more growth to do. I get the sense in this interview that they didn't say it openly, and nobody is saying it openly. How could anyone criticize Josh for the Miami performance with the numbers and efforts under those conditions? But to get to those rarified level to say THE guy will seize the opportunities (there were multiple in that game) to carry your team to a win, Josh is knocking on the door, even pushing on it, but has not quite opened it yet.

    Everyone looked that 13 seconds game on our D's big let down at the end. But if you look at it from a different angle, you know Mahomes had to be flawless in that situation with decision and throws, and he did it. That's why I still rank Mahomes above Allen at this time in those critical moments.

    Of course Allen took a very different path to get to where he is compared to Mahomes. From that aspect, I think this Sunday's loss is a good medicine (Von's word) to the team, especially to Allen. I know he said many times he always wants to improve. Still he can't help to listen and see all the smoke they blow at him and the Bills at every turn of MVPs, superbowls. A loss, especially something related to his very own decision and performance impacted the outcome.

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    Re: O-Line Analyzing from Ostroski

    They left at least 24 points out there, that should've been points.

    Gabe's dropped TD
    Bass' missed 38 Yard FG
    Milano's dropped pick 6
    Josh's dirt nap to McKenzie

    Even if ONE of those things goes how it should, they win the game.

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    Re: O-Line Analyzing from Ostroski

    Quote Originally Posted by Forward_Lateral View Post
    They left at least 24 points out there, that should've been points.

    Gabe's dropped TD
    Bass' missed 38 Yard FG
    Milano's dropped pick 6
    Josh's dirt nap to McKenzie

    Even if ONE of those things goes how it should, they win the game.
    Every close loss can provide a list like that.

    The difference is champions actually make those plays and don't have to play 'what if?' afterwards.
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    Re: O-Line Analyzing from Ostroski

    Quote Originally Posted by Forward_Lateral View Post
    They left at least 24 points out there, that should've been points.

    Gabe's dropped TD
    Bass' missed 38 Yard FG
    Milano's dropped pick 6
    Josh's dirt nap to McKenzie

    Even if ONE of those things goes how it should, they win the game.
    This. If everyone else played perfectly, I'd be willing to entertain that Josh has growing to do. But when everyone has a hand in ****ing-up, you have a day-and-a-half less to rest and prepare before playing on the road in a sauna, have a MASH unit for a team and the refs are crooked, there's only so much you can do.
    "You're more likely to make a lot of money if you work hard than if you don't."-Spartacus

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    Re: O-Line Analyzing from Ostroski

    Eric Wood used to do the head bob also. Sometimes it reflects silent snap count. Late last season, I believe the Bills used Bates for the silent snap count, teams will use guards with a leg tap, also. Can't say it's what he was doing, just pointing it out.

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    Re: O-Line Analyzing from Ostroski

    Ostroski btw, was one of those solid, flexible worker bees. He actually started two years at RG, then 2 years at RT, before 3 at C. One of those players you got used to seeing the name but wouldn't notice much because he was doing his job, not spectacular, but competently.

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    Re: O-Line Analyzing from Ostroski

    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    Eric Wood used to do the head bob also. Sometimes it reflects silent snap count. Late last season, I believe the Bills used Bates for the silent snap count, teams will use guards with a leg tap, also. Can't say it's what he was doing, just pointing it out.
    I think Ostroski addressed that in his explanation. The guard tap tells the center the QB is ready, the head bob is the center's signal to the tackles the ball's getting snapped. Centers have to mix up their bobs to not tip the snap to the defense.

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    Re: O-Line Analyzing from Ostroski

    Quote Originally Posted by YardRat View Post
    I think Ostroski addressed that in his explanation. The guard tap tells the center the QB is ready, the head bob is the center's signal to the tackles the ball's getting snapped. Centers have to mix up their bobs to not tip the snap to the defense.
    Probably wasn't the best time to work on it though.

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    Re: O-Line Analyzing from Ostroski

    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    Probably wasn't the best time to work on it though.
    Did I mention the whole family hates our OL.

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    Re: O-Line Analyzing from Ostroski

    Quote Originally Posted by Forward_Lateral View Post
    They left at least 24 points out there, that should've been points.

    Gabe's dropped TD
    Bass' missed 38 Yard FG
    Milano's dropped pick 6
    Josh's dirt nap to McKenzie

    Even if ONE of those things goes how it should, they win the game.
    You missed a couple. Joe B., in his weekly “observations” after each game detailed six different lost opportunities, that cost the Bills 27 possible points.



    • Play 1: 2nd quarter, third-and-3, 0:03 remaining — The spike that wasn’t. With a tie game and a clear opportunity for points at the end of the first half, all the Bills had to do was get to the line, snap the ball and have Allen spike it into the turf to stop the clock. The chance came after quarterback Josh Allen and receiver Stefon Diggs connected for a 7-yard gain, setting up for a would-be 52-yard field goal attempt for kicker Tyler Bass. Instead, as it’s been happening the last two games, the exchange between backup center Greg Van Roten and Allen wasn’t clean, the ball went through Allen’s hands and hit his chest, then dropped toward the ground where Allen barely caught the bobble. By rule, without a clean exchange, had Allen clocked it, it would have been an intentional grounding penalty with a subsequent 10-second run-off, so Allen had only one choice in his mind. He tried to make something out of nothing, and nearly got picked off. Potential points lost: 3



    • Play 2: 3rd quarter, 2nd-and-goal from the 11-yard line, 3:55 remaining — The Bills were in the process of delivering a soul-sucking drive to the Dolphins after taking a drive from their own 2-yard line to the brink of a touchdown. On the drive’s 18th play, Allen feathered a pass into receiver Gabe Davis, who rose up over the defender and snapped the ball out of the air while getting two feet down in bounds in the end zone. But while getting his feet down, Davis did not secure the ball tightly to his body, which gave the defender a last-ditch effort to break up the play. It succeeded, as Davis watched his touchdown get ripped from his hands. The Bills had to settle for a field goal on the drive. Potential points lost: 4, total points lost: 7



    • Play 3: 3rd quarter, third-and-2, 2:16 remaining – With the Dolphins facing a quick third down after the Bills’ big drive, Tagovailoa motioned receiver Tyreek Hill to his left and threw a quick slant immediately after taking the shotgun snap. Tagovailoa mistakenly stared down Hill the whole way, allowing Bills linebacker Matt Milano to jump the pass. Milano read the play so well that the ball hit his hands at the Dolphins’ 35-yard-line while almost in full stride, only for the ball to go through his hands and hit the ground. The Dolphins didn’t keep a back to block for Tagovailoa, so only the quarterback would have had a chance to prevent Milano from scoring a touchdown. But with the linebacker’s head start, it most likely would have been a touchdown and a 10-point Bills lead. Potential points lost: 7, total points lost: 14



    • Play 4: 4th quarter, fourth-and-4, 14:12 remaining — After a stalled drive, the Bills wanted to salvage some points and sent the usually reliable field goal unit out to give the Bills a 20-14 lead. The attempt was partially tipped at the line of scrimmage, leading to a wobbly miss wide left. Potential points lost: 3, total points lost: 17



    • Play 5: 4th quarter, fourth-and-2, 1:49 remaining — Down 21-17, the Bills were at the Dolphins’ 2-yard-line and on the 17th play of a nearly nine-minute drive. Isaiah McKenzie broke open to the front right corner of the end zone, only for Allen to have the ball slip. The ball one-hopped toward McKenzie, turning it over to the Dolphins on downs. The route was a clear win by McKenzie, and with an on-target throw, it’s likely the game-winning touchdown. Potential points lost: 7, total points lost: 24



    • Play 6: 4th quarter, 2nd-and-10, 0:22 remaining — Down only 21-19 thanks to the Dolphins’ safety, the Bills already found themselves at the Dolphins’ 43-yard line, in range for Bass. All the offense needed was a slight gain, and either to get out of bounds after the catch, or to run up and spike the ball to stop the clock. Even an incompletion would have brought on a third down and another chance to gain some yardage. But on the second down, backup right tackle David Quessenberry was beaten to the outside by pass rusher Emmanuel Ogbah. Rather than allowing the sack, Quessenberry grabbed Ogbah from the front of the jersey for an obvious holding call. The Bills lost both time on the clock and were sent back to their own 47-yard line. If Quessenberry maintains his block, the Bills at least get an attempt to kick the game-winning field goal. Potential points lost: 3, total points lost: 27

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    Re: O-Line Analyzing from Ostroski

    Quote Originally Posted by YardRat View Post
    Every close loss can provide a list like that.

    The difference is champions actually make those plays and don't have to play 'what if?' afterwards.
    Jesus. You really have to stop saying this stupid crap. It makes you look foolish.

    There has been only ONE team in the Super Bowl era that has gone undefeated....freakin’ FIFTY YEARS AGO when they played THREE LESS GAMES.

    EVERY OTHER “CHAMPION” TEAM has had at least one loss during their championship season (and most had multiple losses), which means they did NOT “make those plays” to prevent a loss. In FACT.....

    THIRTY Super Bowl winners have had FOUR of MORE regular seasons losses. Which means over HALF of Super Bowl “Champions” have had FOUR or MORE losses during their championship season.

    The last THREE SB winners had 5, 5 & 4 regular season loses.

    The ONLY team to enter the SB without a regular season loss (besides Miami in 1972) was the 2007 Patriots, who LOST the Super Bowl to the NY Giants who had SEVEN LOSSES that season.

    So the idea that "champions actually make those plays and don't have to play 'what if?’ afterwards” is demonstrably false and really, really stupid.
    Last edited by notacon; 09-30-2022 at 06:08 AM.

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