Fire Frazier

[notacon]

The sad thing is the defense needs quite a retooling right now. You might as well call it a rebuild.

They are going to go about trying to rebuild the same thing. Sure, they will disguise it a bit and talk about how much they have learned because of the growth mindset and present some changes .... which is going to be your basic hogwash for the same tired thing.

This offseason we should be trying to improve -- and that is a huge task! The whole situation is threatening to set the franchise back at least 3 - 5 years and Pegula is the only person who can stop that from happening.

I’m curious. What do you consider “quite a retooling” or a “rebuild”?!?!?

The Bills did that last season.....and the season before.

Before this season they....


Released DT Star Lotulelei
Released LB AJ Klein
Released DT Vernon Butler
Did not re-sign CB Levi Wallace
Did not re-sign DT Harrison Phillips
Did not re-sign DE Jerry Hughes
Did not re-sign DE Mario Addison


Signed EDGE Von Miller
Signed DT DaQuan Jones
Singed DT Tim Sttle
Signed DT Jordan Phillips
Signed DE Shaq Lawson
Drafted Kaiir Elam
Drafted Christian Benford

I may be missing some too.

So, isn’t this done pretty much every year??? Teams evaluate and try to improve. Lose some players because of cap restraints. Draft players that they hope will step in and make a meaningful contribution, and certainly develop going forward.

I suspect that the need to “retool” or “rebuild” is going to be less than last year or less than many think.

The Bills defense was still one of the best in the NFL no matter how much bitter fans want to **** on them. They were still the #2 defensive team in points allowed with a stingy 17.9 PTS/G. That is not easy to achieve. And it is certainly nothing to disrespect.

And that was despite the agonizingly massive amount of injuries to key personal throughout the season.

[k-oneputt]

And then they go to the playoffs and the defense gets run over every year.

[notacon]

And then they go to the playoffs and the defense gets run over every year.

That is not true.

San Fran was widely (with good reason) considered the best defense in the NFL this season. Their undeniable strength.

They got destroyed twice this season....much worse than the Bills did.

Week #7, KC wiped the floor and beat them 44-23.

In the NFC Championship game, Philly crushed them even WORSE 31-7.

The MAIN reason the Bills lost to Cincy this year was the terrible OFFENSE. As I have detailed before (in the other silly thread calling to fire McDermott) scoring only 10 points almost ASSURES a loss in the NFL.

Here are the facts....

In the 2022 regular season, there were SEVENTY ONE teams that scored 10 points or less. Their W-L record in those games?.....

2-69.

Week #11….NE 10 – NYJ 3.
Week #13….BAL 10 – DEN 9.

Playoffs is even more stark. Since 2000 (including 2022 so far) there have been 45 teams that have scored 10 or less points (excluding Super Bowls). Their record??...

0-45.


The last time a team scored 10 or less points in a playoff game and won??

1997. PITT 7 – NE 6.

The Super Bowl is even MORE stark….in ALL 56 Super Bowls, one ream has scored 10 or less points SIXTEEN times. Their record????...If you are paying attention you guessed it…..

0-16.

Interestingly, the last team to score 10 or less points in a SB was not very long ago….2020 season, Tampa Bay 31 – Kansas City – 9.

After that shocking and devastating loss there was no (credible) talk of blowing up the Chiefs. No talk of firing Andy Reid. No talk of firing the OC or DC…

And the Bills ending the season with a terrible effort and bad loss does NOT mean you blow it all up. It was ONE GAME. A game that Cincy played almost perfectly….and the Bills emotional baggage finally caught up with them.


“any given Sunday” is not a unrealistic excuse….it’s real because the NFL wants it that way.. Ask Cincy who got their asses handed to them by lowly Cleveland in week 8, losing 32-13.

[YardRat]

When you win 13 games and have a point differential of 169 your D is doing something right… are there issues? Yes Did this D do it without so many starters this year? Oh yeah.

I think a 179 PD and a 3 loss season will be hard to duplicate without player moves. Much more important than the OC.

old guard players will be thinned. New blood is coming and for that I’m excited. I’m more concerned with the OL

The regular season doesn't mean dick, unless your ultimate goal is to rack up statistics and win some games before getting your ass kicked in the playoffs every year.

[YardRat]

2022 = 31 and 28 = 29.5 average
2021 = 17 and 42 = 29.5 average
2020 = 24 and 3 and 38 = 21.7 average.

Overall a 26.14 average over three playoff seasons.

28 or more allowed in three straight playoff games.
29.5 points allowed two playoff seasons in a row.
24 points or more allowed in 5 of 7 playoff games over three seasons.

The only playoff game the defense played well in the last three years was against a limited, one-trick pony QB whose skill set just happens to play right into the hands of Frazier's philosophy. Big deal.

This defense sucks in the playoffs, plain and simple. It's obvious.

[Mace]

2022 = 31 and 28 = 29.5 average
2021 = 17 and 42 = 29.5 average
2020 = 24 and 3 and 38 = 21.7 average.

Overall a 26.14 average over three playoff seasons.

28 or more allowed in three straight playoff games.
29.5 points allowed two playoff seasons in a row.
24 points or more allowed in 5 of 7 playoff games over three seasons.

The only playoff game the defense played well in the last three years was against a limited, one-trick pony QB whose skill set just happens to play right into the hands of Frazier's philosophy. Big deal.

This defense sucks in the playoffs, plain and simple. It's obvious.

In 9 playoff games under McDermott, the points differential is plus 3 (217-214), and we gave up 3,341 yards for an average of 371 per game if my math is right. It's pretty significant because it's money time in the clutch.

[Typ0]

I’m curious. What do you consider “quite a retooling” or a “rebuild”?!?!?

The Bills did that last season.....and the season before.

Before this season they....


Released DT Star Lotulelei
Released LB AJ Klein
Released DT Vernon Butler
Did not re-sign CB Levi Wallace
Did not re-sign DT Harrison Phillips
Did not re-sign DE Jerry Hughes
Did not re-sign DE Mario Addison


Signed EDGE Von Miller
Signed DT DaQuan Jones
Singed DT Tim Sttle
Signed DT Jordan Phillips
Signed DE Shaq Lawson
Drafted Kaiir Elam
Drafted Christian Benford

I may be missing some too.

So, isn’t this done pretty much every year??? Teams evaluate and try to improve. Lose some players because of cap restraints. Draft players that they hope will step in and make a meaningful contribution, and certainly develop going forward.

I suspect that the need to “retool” or “rebuild” is going to be less than last year or less than many think.

The Bills defense was still one of the best in the NFL no matter how much bitter fans want to **** on them. They were still the #2 defensive team in points allowed with a stingy 17.9 PTS/G. That is not easy to achieve. And it is certainly nothing to disrespect.

And that was despite the agonizingly massive amount of injuries to key personal throughout the season.

The defense is going to look a bit different next season. We aren't going to make any big acquisitions on either side of the ball and going to need to shift money around just to have a roster. Edmunds is probably going to leave and they have a lot banked on his play. Things are getting tighter and more difficult and that doesn't even factor in the narrowing margin of improvement you are looking for when trying to get to the top. There just are some tougher fiscal years on the horizon not saying it can't be done but it's going to be harder to be as good or better. These are smart people they are going to consider all of this in their strategies about the product they are putting on the field. They all understand the limitation of resources part of the model that has staffed the team is born in McDermott's brain.

The defense is too conservative and needs to change. And there continues to be communication issues that is the only way I can reason giving the other team first downs. NFL offenses are good the defense is going to get torched being conservative just takes away your players opportunities to get stops and TOs and just plain disrupt the hell out of what they are trying to do.

[notacon]

The defense is going to look a bit different next season. We aren't going to make any big acquisitions on either side of the ball and going to need to shift money around just to have a roster. Edmunds is probably going to leave and they have a lot banked on his play. Things are getting tighter and more difficult and that doesn't even factor in the narrowing margin of improvement you are looking for when trying to get to the top. There just are some tougher fiscal years on the horizon not saying it can't be done but it's going to be harder to be as good or better. These are smart people they are going to consider all of this in their strategies about the product they are putting on the field. They all understand the limitation of resources part of the model that has staffed the team is born in McDermott's brain.

The defense is too conservative and needs to change. And there continues to be communication issues that is the only way I can reason giving the other team first downs. NFL offenses are good the defense is going to get torched being conservative just takes away your players opportunities to get stops and TOs and just plain disrupt the hell out of what they are trying to do.

So, you are backtracking from the premise that "The sad thing is the defense needs quite a retooling right now. You might as well call it a rebuild.”??

The point is that the defense, and the team “look(s) a bit different” every year. Let season there was over a 25% turnover in the roster.

And saying that "We aren't going to make any big acquisitions on either side of the ball and going to need to shift money around just to have a roster” is opposite of the idea that "the defense needs quite a retooling right now. You might as well call it a rebuild”.

I don’t buy what you are trying to sell.

[notacon]

2022 = 31 and 28 = 29.5 average
2021 = 17 and 42 = 29.5 average
2020 = 24 and 3 and 38 = 21.7 average.

Overall a 26.14 average over three playoff seasons.

28 or more allowed in three straight playoff games.
29.5 points allowed two playoff seasons in a row.
24 points or more allowed in 5 of 7 playoff games over three seasons.

The only playoff game the defense played well in the last three years was against a limited, one-trick pony QB whose skill set just happens to play right into the hands of Frazier's philosophy. Big deal.

This defense sucks in the playoffs, plain and simple. It's obvious.

Kansas City average points allowed each playoff season....

2022 - 20 average
2021 - 27 average
2020 - 24 average
2019 - 25 average
2018 - 25 average

Overall a 24.2 average allowed over five playoff seasons.

Kansas City average points scored:

2022 - 25 average
2021 - 36 average
2020 - 23 average
2019 - 36 average
2018 - 31 average

Overall a 30 average scored five playoff seasons.

Buffalo Bills average points scored:

2022 - 17 average
2021 - 42 average
2020 - 23 average

Overall a 27 average scored three playoff seasons.

So, KC averaged allowed 1.94 points less overall over five playoff seasons.

KC scored three points MORE in overall average over five layoff seasons as compared to the Bills three playoff seasons.

No, the idea that "This defense sucks in the playoffs, plain and simple” is just true and it certainly is NOT “obvious”.

[Mace]

Kansas City average points allowed each playoff season....

2022 - 20 average
2021 - 27 average
2020 - 24 average
2019 - 25 average
2018 - 25 average

Overall a 24.2 average allowed over five playoff seasons.

Kansas City average points scored:

2022 - 25 average
2021 - 36 average
2020 - 23 average
2019 - 36 average
2018 - 31 average

Overall a 30 average scored five playoff seasons.

Buffalo Bills average points scored:

2022 - 17 average
2021 - 42 average
2020 - 23 average

Overall a 27 average scored three playoff seasons.

So, KC averaged allowed 1.94 points less overall over five playoff seasons.

KC scored three points MORE in overall average over five layoff seasons as compared to the Bills three playoff seasons.

No, the idea that "This defense sucks in the playoffs, plain and simple” is just true and it certainly is NOT “obvious”.

We're not KC. They're going to another Super Bowl, already won one. Our season is over.

That's about as relevant as it gets, and no helping you if the point is beyond you.

I can't give a crap about how well or poorly KC did in "their games", they beat the Bengals and are going to the Super Bowl. Means nothing to the Bills, They didn't and are not, and that's pretty simple, cut and dried and take it to the bank.

[YardRat]

KCs D is getting better over the last three seasons, Buffalo's is getting worse.
KC's D has never allowed 29.5 points per game in the playoffs, Buffalo's has two seasons in a row.

Thanks for supporting the premise.

[Mace]

My Mom always used to say, if that other kid jumps off a cliff, he's probably got an angle and it won't work well for you if you blindly follow him.

[Historian]

I think key injuries, specifically on defense, sunk us this year.

We are old and injury prone in some areas, and too young an inexperienced in others.

Still, to go 14-4 with all our injuries is an accomplishment.

Unfortunately, now we are up against the cap.

Beane is going to need to get real creative.

[notacon]

We're not KC. They're going to another Super Bowl, already won one. Our season is over.

That's about as relevant as it gets, and no helping you if the point is beyond you.

I can't give a crap about how well or poorly KC did in "their games", they beat the Bengals and are going to the Super Bowl. Means nothing to the Bills, They didn't and are not, and that's pretty simple, cut and dried and take it to the bank.

That’s the point.

Again, the idea that "This defense sucks in the playoffs, plain and simple” is just true and it certainly is NOT “obvious”.

- - - Updated - - -

KCs D is getting better over the last three seasons, Buffalo's is getting worse.
KC's D has never allowed 29.5 points per game in the playoffs, Buffalo's has two seasons in a row.

Thanks for supporting the premise.

What claptrap. Just so you can **** on the Bills defense. How pathetic.

[Mace]

That’s the point.

Again, the idea that "This defense sucks in the playoffs, plain and simple” is just true and it certainly is NOT “obvious”.

- - - Updated - - -



What claptrap. Just so you can **** on the Bills defense. How pathetic.

Sure it's true and obvious. All you have to do is watch the games to see them crumple, and comprehend what you're seeing. Surrendering an average of 371 yards over 9 playoff games, speaks for itself.

[Typ0]

So, you are backtracking from the premise that "The sad thing is the defense needs quite a retooling right now. You might as well call it a rebuild.”??

1. The point is that the defense, and the team “look(s) a bit different” every year. Let season there was over a 25% turnover in the roster.

2. And saying that "We aren't going to make any big acquisitions on either side of the ball and going to need to shift money around just to have a roster” is opposite of the idea that "the defense needs quite a retooling right now. You might as well call it a rebuild”.

I don’t buy what you are trying to sell.

1. Last year was a good example of what you said: let's try and get better. This year we have some key players either not going to play next year or leaving as free agents. We have holes and shoes to fill and less $$$ to do that.

2. No it is not the opposite it compounds the issue stated above.

And the biggest problem is the offense has to get better as well. We really need WR and LT. Allen needs WR and LT.

[notacon]

1. Last year was a good example of what you said: let's try and get better. This year we have some key players either not going to play next year or leaving as free agents. We have holes and shoes to fill and less $$$ to do that.

2. No it is not the opposite it compounds the issue stated above.

And the biggest problem is the offense has to get better as well. We really need WR and LT. Allen needs WR and LT.

The point is that the OFFENSE is THE OVERRIDING problem. NOT the defense. Every game we lost in 2022 was because of the failures of the OFFENSE.


It’s crystal clear and undeniable.

[sukie]

Defense was really abused vs Cincy that abuse and 14 point hole is not on the offense.

the offense put up great numbers against a lot of weak teams but seriously this teams defense should never be part of a shoot out. Never. That is a D failure.

[notacon]

Defense was really abused vs Cincy that abuse and 14 point hole is not on the offense.

the offense put up great numbers against a lot of weak teams but seriously this teams defense should never be part of a shoot out. Never. That is a D failure.

That is not accurate. The main reason the Bills got into a 14 point hole vs Cincy was because the offense failed miserably. After each of Cincy’s TD drives, the Bills offense looked like TOTAL **** and had consecutive three and outs.

After each of Cincy’s scores, the Bills offense **** THE BED.

Cincy TD, 7-0, next drive Buffalo goes three and out, punt.

Cincy TD after the Bills punt, 14-0, next drive Buffalo goes three and out, punt.

Bills force a Cincy punt, and the Bills finally score a TD, 14-7.

Cincy takes the ensuing kickoff and the Bills defense holds them to a FG....17-7.

Bills take the insuring kickoff and, what else, punts. End of 1st half, Cincy up 17-7.

Bills take the second half kickoff and instead of scoring a TD to get within 3 points, get to the Bengals SEVEN YARD LINE and can't get in...FG. 17-10.

Cincy takes the kickoff and scores another TD....24-10.

Bills responds with ANOTHER three and out....punt.

Cincy drives to the Bills two yard line, the Bills defense stops them....FG...27-10.

Bills “drive” to Cincy 16 yard line....cannot get in, turn over on downs.

Yes, the defense was not stellar, but, the offense was ABYSMALLY BAD. BAD, BAD, BAD. It is NOT the defenses fault if the offense scores only 10 points. As I have detailed already, in the NFL, if you score only 10 points you will LOSE almost ALL THE TIME!!!!

And, as has been detailed many, many times, the OFFENSE was at the root of the three losses the Bills suffered during the season. The DEFENSE, despite being hit with injuries to several of their BEST players, still performed at a very high level.

You want to be blind to reality, that’s your problem. The OFFENSE is what needs the most work. NOT the defense.

[sukie]

3 and outs … that is not why the D let 14 easy ones get on the board. A healthy D vs a make shift OLine is supposed to cause 3 and outs.

Cincy caused them.