he wasnt expected to be a world beater but that more than what our no. 3 had esecailly coming of of our practice squad.Originally Posted by Mr. Pink
he wasnt expected to be a world beater but that more than what our no. 3 had esecailly coming of of our practice squad.
Yeah, the Giants 26th ranked pass offense!
He did do a good job of coaching Daniel up to protect the football though, I'll give him credit for that.
Jones is nothing compared to Allen but you can see the difference between Jones' improvement and Allens decline (between the ears) with Daboll being the common denomiator.
sahlensguy (01-23-2023)
Are they better or are they put in a position to succeed. How would Digga-Davis-Mckenzie-Knox look in cincis offense. Would we even utilize Chase-Higgins-Boyd the way they should in ours?
Im sorry but talent, isnt whats getting cinci and kcs receivers wide open every game. Thats scheme. I can look at all those offenses and honestly, i dont think wed be any different with those weapons with how dorsey runs our offense
I think people think scheme is a simple thing. Its not. Its how routes are run with timing, how they blend to get the receiver open, how there is an extensive screen game to keep the pressure off allen
Do you really think Deebo would have even half the production in this offense? I dont. Do you think we would be using kelce the way hes used? I dont. Kittle? nah
If mahomes and burrow were throwing tight throws every game and these players were consistently beating double coverage numerous times a game, i may agree with you. But theyre not. They are getting schemed up WIDE open, wide wide open. You saw kelce running with no one around him multiple times vs the jags, you see chase/Hurst with no one near them vs the bills
We can have Chase-Adams-Kelce on this offense and we are not going anywhere if every play we are depending on them soley to win their route
Its a scheme thing, we yell at davis because he drops passes at times, but whens the last time we saw diggs/davis/knox/mckenzie running wide open and drop a pass. They drop passes at times but they are having to beat a route, and catch the ball over the defender. Nothing is ever made easy for them
The biggest tell is when they replay every catch we have and they are in isolated routes. Have you seen a replay all season where our receivers caught a pass by breaking the zone of the defense? No, its ALWAYS diggs getting separation, Davis beating his man deep, beasely in traffic, Knox pulling his route and making a great adjustment on the ball
Last edited by Cali512; 01-23-2023 at 04:04 PM.
Not here to be right, just here to have interesting discussions about my impulsive opinions
"Are they better or are they put in a position to succeed.”.
They are better.
“Scheme” only goes so far. I believe you are over emphasizing “scheme” and under emphasizing talent.
Last edited by notacon; 01-23-2023 at 04:27 PM.
Scheme maximizes available talent, it's always been that way.
swiper (01-23-2023)
Oh....to answer some of your other questions...
"Do you really think Deebo would have even half the production in this offense?” Absolutely. Maybe even more. Same with Najee Harris and Breece Hall.
"Do you think we would be using kelce the way hes used? I dont. Kittle?’....again, absolutely. Kelce and Kittle would be fantastic in a Josh Allen offense.
"We can have Chase-Adams-Kelce on this offense and we are not going anywhere if every play we are depending on them soley to win their route”...nonsense.
Ingtar spelled it out quite neatly....
THE reason that Allen exploded in 2020 was acquiring Diggs. The rest of the Bills WR’s since then are average to below average....certainly below average this season.
"The biggest tell is when they replay every catch we have and they are in isolated routes. Have you seen a replay all season where our receivers caught a pass by breaking the zone of the defense? No, it’s ALWAYS diggs getting separation, Davis beating his man deep, beasely in traffic, Knox pulling his route and making a great adjustment on the ball”
....that's the “biggest tell” that the talent is not as good as the four playoff team I mentioned.
I just disagree with you. Mark my words, the Bills WILL be adding “more weapons” this off season. Count on it.
- - - Updated - - -
It’s a delicate balance. It’s always been that way.
I dont think you fully grasp what scheme means. Scheme is why the giants actually made the playoffs and destroyed the vikings. We made it just as far with obviously extremely more talent. We barely beat the dolphins backups, and got crushed by kc. The giants destroyed the vikings and got destroyed by the eagles
Did you really just say Deebo would have more production in this offense
That right there shows me you have no clue what so ever what an offensive scheme is. If you really watch the 49ers/Chiefs/Cinci and see absolutely no difference in the scheme we run and the effectiveness, than you should really really stop discussing this subject. This may be one of your worst posts yet
If Allen doesn't hit them in stride, none of these stars would have more production here.
swiper (01-23-2023)
If we get one high priced offensive weapon, thats a waste of money
We need a new playcaller, better OL, DL, MLB, and more secondary pieces
our strength right now is our receiving core
Yes the route running at times is poor, but they are MAN beaters every single play. If our receivers struggle running man beaters, than we should start adding a more zone favoring route running. We run almost no zone beaters. Diggs is ALWAYS running close to the sideline, so is Davis. I havent seen many option routes, "pick" plays, variation to the run game. When allens running to the sideline, everyone is 20 yds deep. We run absolutely no plays that dont rely on the receivers beating their man
Our receivers outside Diggs are middling at best. No one is game planning for Davis, Shakir, McKenz Beez or brown
no one. That is a problem.
Aside from kelce, no one is specifically game planning for Juju, Hartman, Tony
This is how i know its scheme not weapons
When is the last time you seen diggs running clean over the middle. Whens the last time we saw any receiver for that matter with space to run.
Heres a fun one. Name 5 running plays in our playbook designed for the RBs. We have 3 rushing plays. Shotgun B gap, shotgun C gap, single back rush to B gap
Seriously, please someone tell me 2 more rushing plays we run with our RBs. We abandoned the toss plays and stretch plays. We design no swing passes. Every route we have is a man beater, when mckenzie is best at being a zone beater, Davis size isn't utilized, knox is constantly running deep middle. We have no outlets, no players running the center of the field, rarely throw slants
This is a scheme issue. If we spend any money on a receiver with our cap situation, we are ****ed for years to come. We need so much money allocated to defense and OL, that we should design a new scheme and roll with the receivers we have
- - - Updated - - -
Aside from kelce, no one is specifically game planning for Juju, Hartman, Tony
This is how i know its scheme not weapons
When is the last time you seen diggs running clean over the middle. Whens the last time we saw any receiver for that matter with space to run.
Heres a fun one. Name 5 running plays in our playbook designed for the RBs. We have 3 rushing plays. Shotgun B gap, shotgun C gap, single back rush to B gap
Seriously, please someone tell me 2 more rushing plays we run with our RBs. We abandoned the toss plays and stretch plays. We design no swing passes. Every route we have is a man beater, when mckenzie is best at being a zone beater, Davis size isn't utilized, knox is constantly running deep middle. We have no outlets, no players running the center of the field, rarely throw slants
This is a scheme issue. If we spend any money on a receiver with our cap situation, we are ****ed for years to come. We need so much money allocated to defense and OL, that we should design a new scheme and roll with the receivers we have
Thanks Captain Obvious.
Ah, that's what coaches do. They scheme to maximize talent, it's not even debatable. That's the way it is.
This
Load up on Oline and skill players. You can have an avg D and win
So we are supposed to play 4th string QBs and put up nearly 40 points? We are supposed to let QBs go 9-9 and 2 tds and expect our offense to put up 30 to win?
You realize if we get one single weapon on offense, we are missing out on a DT/G/T
If you think Diggs-Davis-Beasely-Mckenzie-Crowder-Knox is so bad that we have to blow things up. Than idk what to tell you. We should be able to make that work. You can always load up weapons, but if we are expecting allen to have 2 seconds to throw the ball, and every one of our receivers to consistently beat man to man, we will not go anywhere
How would KCs offense fair with our receivers
How would SF do with our receiving core?
Now ask yourself. How much better would we be, in our scheme, be with Kelce/Juju/Pacheco/Hartman/Scantley. Would we really maximize them?
Deebo would literally be the 15-20th best receiver in this offense
Once again, name one route combination that got a receiver running WIDE open like we see with these teams consistently, name just 5 running plays for our RBs that we run? We have 3 running plays for our running backs in our whole playbook.
This is not a weapons issue. Yes we went out and got beasely and brown. BECAUSE we strictly run MAN BEATERS. Getting them wasnt a shot at our weapons, it was a desperate attempt to make our passing game work with dorseys bland offense
Oh please. Stop playing mr know-it-all. You are not.
And just stop telling anyone what to discuss.
Of course I know what schemes are, and I certainly don’t answer to you in a lame test of knowledge. Jesus.
Go ahead trying to present yourself as some kind of football expert. I don’t buy it, and never have.
Well, that's what good and adaptable coaches do. Others who are rigid, just use talent to maximize scheme.
Please explain to me what concepts that we run or have proven to be good at that would somehow make Deebo better in the offense?
Ive yet to hear you mention anything scheme related that defends any of your opinions other than "josh would make them work". You seem to not understand the offensive concepts
Instead of trading for Hines, we should have made a move for Kadarius Toney.
At least we'd have a dynamic playmaker on offense.
Oh but we don't need those? KC still brought him in. And offensively they're better than we are.
take it easy man. Didn't say blow it up but add and replace the dead weight. Can't tell me we can't upgrade from Beasley/McKenzie/Davis/Crowder. TE's are hand to find in terms of a Kelce. Only 3 legit ones out there. QB'? They have one. Scheme is a key too yes. If you have a great Oline things fall into place too.
Cali512 (01-24-2023)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote