We dont need more weapons

[notacon]

Re: We dont need more weapons

Oh....to answer some of your other questions...

"Do you really think Deebo would have even half the production in this offense?” Absolutely. Maybe even more. Same with Najee Harris and Breece Hall.

"Do you think we would be using kelce the way hes used? I dont. Kittle?’....again, absolutely. Kelce and Kittle would be fantastic in a Josh Allen offense.

"We can have Chase-Adams-Kelce on this offense and we are not going anywhere if every play we are depending on them soley to win their route”...nonsense.


Ingtar spelled it out quite neatly....

Offense -

Every time i watch tape of the Bills offense i get more and more frustrated. The WRs constantly run bad routes. CONSTANTLY. With Gabe Davis and McKenzie at the top of the problem child list. They don't space the routes right, they read the defense wrong on an option route, they round their routs off at the wrong depth, they don't come to the ball. It's really bad on tape, and watching it makes it really obvious what's wrong with the passing offense.

-Bad route running; which creates
-indecision for the QB

How does one create the other? Well if you're running dagger (basically a skinny post from the slot, and an in route from the outside WR) on the right hand side of the formation, and the defense is in some type cover 4, which dagger should get open (especially the backside in route), and the play requires timing and good route running, and your back side in runs a **** pattern, and instead of being properly spaced, and timed, ends up almost overlapping the post guy, who instead of running a post runs a sloppy slant, not pressuring the safeties or lbs properly allowing 1 defender to cover both of them, what the **** is the QB supposed to do? And yes, i'm citing a specific play that happened today. ****ing McKenzie and Davis, Davis was too shallow on the post running what looked like a slant, McKenzie too shallow on his in route (and broke in way too fast, and before you know it the whole route combo was ****ed up and you see JA look off the coverage, come back to the back side, on a in route and post that should have someone open only to see both dip****s basically in each other's laps with one defender easily covering both. and now he has to clutch the ball with an o-line collapsing on him.


More…

THE reason that Allen exploded in 2020 was acquiring Diggs. The rest of the Bills WR’s since then are average to below average....certainly below average this season.

"The biggest tell is when they replay every catch we have and they are in isolated routes. Have you seen a replay all season where our receivers caught a pass by breaking the zone of the defense? No, it’s ALWAYS diggs getting separation, Davis beating his man deep, beasely in traffic, Knox pulling his route and making a great adjustment on the ball”


....that's the “biggest tell” that the talent is not as good as the four playoff team I mentioned.

I just disagree with you. Mark my words, the Bills WILL be adding “more weapons” this off season. Count on it.

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Scheme maximizes available talent, it's always been that way.

It’s a delicate balance. It’s always been that way.

[Cali512]

Re: We dont need more weapons

Oh....to answer some of your other questions...

"Do you really think Deebo would have even half the production in this offense?” Absolutely. Maybe even more. Same with Najee Harris and Breece Hall.

"Do you think we would be using kelce the way hes used? I dont. Kittle?’....again, absolutely. Kelce and Kittle would be fantastic in a Josh Allen offense.

"We can have Chase-Adams-Kelce on this offense and we are not going anywhere if every play we are depending on them soley to win their route”...nonsense.


Ingtar spelled it out quite neatly....




THE reason that Allen exploded in 2020 was acquiring Diggs. The rest of the Bills WR’s since then are average to below average....certainly below average this season.

"The biggest tell is when they replay every catch we have and they are in isolated routes. Have you seen a replay all season where our receivers caught a pass by breaking the zone of the defense? No, it’s ALWAYS diggs getting separation, Davis beating his man deep, beasely in traffic, Knox pulling his route and making a great adjustment on the ball”


....that's the “biggest tell” that the talent is not as good as the four playoff team I mentioned.

I just disagree with you. Mark my words, the Bills WILL be adding “more weapons” this off season. Count on it.

- - - Updated - - -


It’s a delicate balance. It’s always been that way.

I dont think you fully grasp what scheme means. Scheme is why the giants actually made the playoffs and destroyed the vikings. We made it just as far with obviously extremely more talent. We barely beat the dolphins backups, and got crushed by kc. The giants destroyed the vikings and got destroyed by the eagles

Did you really just say Deebo would have more production in this offense

That right there shows me you have no clue what so ever what an offensive scheme is. If you really watch the 49ers/Chiefs/Cinci and see absolutely no difference in the scheme we run and the effectiveness, than you should really really stop discussing this subject. This may be one of your worst posts yet

[sahlensguy]

Re: We dont need more weapons

Oh....to answer some of your other questions...

"Do you really think Deebo would have even half the production in this offense?” Absolutely. Maybe even more. Same with Najee Harris and Breece Hall.

"Do you think we would be using kelce the way hes used? I dont. Kittle?’....again, absolutely. Kelce and Kittle would be fantastic in a Josh Allen offense.

"We can have Chase-Adams-Kelce on this offense and we are not going anywhere if every play we are depending on them soley to win their route”...nonsense.


Ingtar spelled it out quite neatly....




THE reason that Allen exploded in 2020 was acquiring Diggs. The rest of the Bills WR’s since then are average to below average....certainly below average this season.

"The biggest tell is when they replay every catch we have and they are in isolated routes. Have you seen a replay all season where our receivers caught a pass by breaking the zone of the defense? No, it’s ALWAYS diggs getting separation, Davis beating his man deep, beasely in traffic, Knox pulling his route and making a great adjustment on the ball”


....that's the “biggest tell” that the talent is not as good as the four playoff team I mentioned.

I just disagree with you. Mark my words, the Bills WILL be adding “more weapons” this off season. Count on it.

- - - Updated - - -


It’s a delicate balance. It’s always been that way.

If Allen doesn't hit them in stride, none of these stars would have more production here.

[Cali512]

Re: We dont need more weapons

Oh....to answer some of your other questions...

"Do you really think Deebo would have even half the production in this offense?” Absolutely. Maybe even more. Same with Najee Harris and Breece Hall.

"Do you think we would be using kelce the way hes used? I dont. Kittle?’....again, absolutely. Kelce and Kittle would be fantastic in a Josh Allen offense.

"We can have Chase-Adams-Kelce on this offense and we are not going anywhere if every play we are depending on them soley to win their route”...nonsense.


Ingtar spelled it out quite neatly....




THE reason that Allen exploded in 2020 was acquiring Diggs. The rest of the Bills WR’s since then are average to below average....certainly below average this season.

"The biggest tell is when they replay every catch we have and they are in isolated routes. Have you seen a replay all season where our receivers caught a pass by breaking the zone of the defense? No, it’s ALWAYS diggs getting separation, Davis beating his man deep, beasely in traffic, Knox pulling his route and making a great adjustment on the ball”


....that's the “biggest tell” that the talent is not as good as the four playoff team I mentioned.

I just disagree with you. Mark my words, the Bills WILL be adding “more weapons” this off season. Count on it.

- - - Updated - - -


It’s a delicate balance. It’s always been that way.

If we get one high priced offensive weapon, thats a waste of money

We need a new playcaller, better OL, DL, MLB, and more secondary pieces

our strength right now is our receiving core

Yes the route running at times is poor, but they are MAN beaters every single play. If our receivers struggle running man beaters, than we should start adding a more zone favoring route running. We run almost no zone beaters. Diggs is ALWAYS running close to the sideline, so is Davis. I havent seen many option routes, "pick" plays, variation to the run game. When allens running to the sideline, everyone is 20 yds deep. We run absolutely no plays that dont rely on the receivers beating their man

[sukie]

Re: We dont need more weapons

Our receivers outside Diggs are middling at best. No one is game planning for Davis, Shakir, McKenz Beez or brown

no one. That is a problem.

[Cali512]

Re: We dont need more weapons

Our receivers outside Diggs are middling at best. No one is game planning for Davis, Shakir, McKenz Beez or brown

no one. That is a problem.

Aside from kelce, no one is specifically game planning for Juju, Hartman, Tony

This is how i know its scheme not weapons


When is the last time you seen diggs running clean over the middle. Whens the last time we saw any receiver for that matter with space to run.

Heres a fun one. Name 5 running plays in our playbook designed for the RBs. We have 3 rushing plays. Shotgun B gap, shotgun C gap, single back rush to B gap

Seriously, please someone tell me 2 more rushing plays we run with our RBs. We abandoned the toss plays and stretch plays. We design no swing passes. Every route we have is a man beater, when mckenzie is best at being a zone beater, Davis size isn't utilized, knox is constantly running deep middle. We have no outlets, no players running the center of the field, rarely throw slants

This is a scheme issue. If we spend any money on a receiver with our cap situation, we are ****ed for years to come. We need so much money allocated to defense and OL, that we should design a new scheme and roll with the receivers we have


- - - Updated - - -

Our receivers outside Diggs are middling at best. No one is game planning for Davis, Shakir, McKenz Beez or brown

no one. That is a problem.

Aside from kelce, no one is specifically game planning for Juju, Hartman, Tony

This is how i know its scheme not weapons


When is the last time you seen diggs running clean over the middle. Whens the last time we saw any receiver for that matter with space to run.

Heres a fun one. Name 5 running plays in our playbook designed for the RBs. We have 3 rushing plays. Shotgun B gap, shotgun C gap, single back rush to B gap

Seriously, please someone tell me 2 more rushing plays we run with our RBs. We abandoned the toss plays and stretch plays. We design no swing passes. Every route we have is a man beater, when mckenzie is best at being a zone beater, Davis size isn't utilized, knox is constantly running deep middle. We have no outlets, no players running the center of the field, rarely throw slants

This is a scheme issue. If we spend any money on a receiver with our cap situation, we are ****ed for years to come. We need so much money allocated to defense and OL, that we should design a new scheme and roll with the receivers we have

[swiper]

Re: We dont need more weapons

Josh Allen makes both Daboll and Dorsey look better than they actually are.

Thanks Captain Obvious.

[Mace]

Re: We dont need more weapons

It’s a delicate balance. It’s always been that way.

Ah, that's what coaches do. They scheme to maximize talent, it's not even debatable. That's the way it is.

[GreedoII]

Re: We dont need more weapons

Honestly, our weapons are pretty similar to the Chiefs at this point. We both have an alpha guy (Diggs/Kelce) and a bunch of role players. Agree that the Dorsey system didn't maximize our talent this year--I blame that for Josh's clear regression. Josh may have tendency to play hero, but Daboll reigned that in last year and found a way to keep Josh on the rails. When he did Josh was arguably the best QB on the planet. Coaching is here to maximize talent, and I don't see how you can argue Dorsey did that.


That said, Cincy, San Francisco, and Philly all have more talent at the skill positions. I'd trade what we have for Chase/Higgins/Mixon, Deebo/McCaffrey/Kittle/Aiyuk, or Brown/Smith/Goedert/Sanders. We do need to upgrade the tools closet.

This

Load up on Oline and skill players. You can have an avg D and win

[Cali512]

Re: We dont need more weapons

This

Load up on Oline and skill players. You can have an avg D and win

So we are supposed to play 4th string QBs and put up nearly 40 points? We are supposed to let QBs go 9-9 and 2 tds and expect our offense to put up 30 to win?

You realize if we get one single weapon on offense, we are missing out on a DT/G/T

If you think Diggs-Davis-Beasely-Mckenzie-Crowder-Knox is so bad that we have to blow things up. Than idk what to tell you. We should be able to make that work. You can always load up weapons, but if we are expecting allen to have 2 seconds to throw the ball, and every one of our receivers to consistently beat man to man, we will not go anywhere

How would KCs offense fair with our receivers
How would SF do with our receiving core?

Now ask yourself. How much better would we be, in our scheme, be with Kelce/Juju/Pacheco/Hartman/Scantley. Would we really maximize them?

Deebo would literally be the 15-20th best receiver in this offense


Once again, name one route combination that got a receiver running WIDE open like we see with these teams consistently, name just 5 running plays for our RBs that we run? We have 3 running plays for our running backs in our whole playbook.

This is not a weapons issue. Yes we went out and got beasely and brown. BECAUSE we strictly run MAN BEATERS. Getting them wasnt a shot at our weapons, it was a desperate attempt to make our passing game work with dorseys bland offense

[notacon]

Re: We dont need more weapons

I dont think you fully grasp what scheme means. Scheme is why the giants actually made the playoffs and destroyed the vikings. We made it just as far with obviously extremely more talent. We barely beat the dolphins backups, and got crushed by kc. The giants destroyed the vikings and got destroyed by the eagles

Did you really just say Deebo would have more production in this offense

That right there shows me you have no clue what so ever what an offensive scheme is. If you really watch the 49ers/Chiefs/Cinci and see absolutely no difference in the scheme we run and the effectiveness, than you should really really stop discussing this subject. This may be one of your worst posts yet

Oh please. Stop playing mr know-it-all. You are not.

And just stop telling anyone what to discuss.

Of course I know what schemes are, and I certainly don’t answer to you in a lame test of knowledge. Jesus.

Go ahead trying to present yourself as some kind of football expert. I don’t buy it, and never have.

[sahlensguy]

Re: We dont need more weapons

Ah, that's what coaches do. They scheme to maximize talent, it's not even debatable. That's the way it is.

Well, that's what good and adaptable coaches do. Others who are rigid, just use talent to maximize scheme.

[Cali512]

Re: We dont need more weapons

Oh please. Stop playing mr know-it-all. You are not.

And just stop telling anyone what to discuss.

Of course I know what schemes are, and I certainly don’t answer to you in a lame test of knowledge. Jesus.

Go ahead trying to present yourself as some kind of football expert. I don’t buy it, and never have.

Please explain to me what concepts that we run or have proven to be good at that would somehow make Deebo better in the offense?

Ive yet to hear you mention anything scheme related that defends any of your opinions other than "josh would make them work". You seem to not understand the offensive concepts

[Mr. Pink]

Re: We dont need more weapons

Instead of trading for Hines, we should have made a move for Kadarius Toney.

At least we'd have a dynamic playmaker on offense.

Oh but we don't need those? KC still brought him in. And offensively they're better than we are.

[GreedoII]

Re: We dont need more weapons

So we are supposed to play 4th string QBs and put up nearly 40 points? We are supposed to let QBs go 9-9 and 2 tds and expect our offense to put up 30 to win?

You realize if we get one single weapon on offense, we are missing out on a DT/G/T

If you think Diggs-Davis-Beasely-Mckenzie-Crowder-Knox is so bad that we have to blow things up. Than idk what to tell you. We should be able to make that work. You can always load up weapons, but if we are expecting allen to have 2 seconds to throw the ball, and every one of our receivers to consistently beat man to man, we will not go anywhere

How would KCs offense fair with our receivers
How would SF do with our receiving core?

Now ask yourself. How much better would we be, in our scheme, be with Kelce/Juju/Pacheco/Hartman/Scantley. Would we really maximize them?

Deebo would literally be the 15-20th best receiver in this offense


Once again, name one route combination that got a receiver running WIDE open like we see with these teams consistently, name just 5 running plays for our RBs that we run? We have 3 running plays for our running backs in our whole playbook.

This is not a weapons issue. Yes we went out and got beasely and brown. BECAUSE we strictly run MAN BEATERS. Getting them wasnt a shot at our weapons, it was a desperate attempt to make our passing game work with dorseys bland offense

take it easy man. Didn't say blow it up but add and replace the dead weight. Can't tell me we can't upgrade from Beasley/McKenzie/Davis/Crowder. TE's are hand to find in terms of a Kelce. Only 3 legit ones out there. QB'? They have one. Scheme is a key too yes. If you have a great Oline things fall into place too.