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Thread: Where do we go FA or Draft

  1. #61
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    Re: Where do we go FA or Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    Heh, true.

    I mean there are solutions we just don't appear capable of.

    - get the coverage guy and adjust the scheme
    - get the hitter and adjust the coverages

    Teams have succeeded with wee fast lb's, by swarming the ball and gang tackling. That's a hallmark of Tampa-2 coverage anyway. Teams have succeeded with a hitter in the middle, who can also rush and cover with a more limited range by adjusting the zones. But we don't move people around and adapt to anything. They used Miller as a semi wildcard, he's got to rotate snaps anyway, get someone else who can be a wildcard too that he can rotate with.

    Doesn't seem they think like that though. They basically took a Tampa-2 defense and neutered it into a soft prevent defense scheme, figuring well, just keep stuffing better players into it.

    They're going to run short next year, imho it's inevitable. Grab an LB or safety early in the draft you aren't going to get the future OL to take care of Allen, and they don't want to play rookies at critical positions anyway.

    Dunno how this ends up, but it doesn't look promising to me atm.
    Why do we need a cover guy when othe base is a nickel? 6 DBs basically ? That screams run on us!



    and they do.

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    Peterman Sucks! Mr. Pink's Avatar
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    Re: Where do we go FA or Draft

    I don't know why people hate on the Tampa 2 scheme...it's the scheme the 70s Steeler dynasty was built on. The scheme works, if you have the right players for it.

    The main component being someone who can rush the passer, which is why we got Von Miller, unfortunately he got hurt and we all saw what happened there.

    Our LBers don't really fit the scheme as neither can cover very well, but people love Milano and Edmunds is a physical freak so it's fine.

    But then we went out and drafted a CB who doesn't fit the scheme which makes no sense to me.

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    Re: Where do we go FA or Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Pink View Post
    I don't know why people hate on the Tampa 2 scheme...it's the scheme the 70s Steeler dynasty was built on. The scheme works, if you have the right players for it.

    The main component being someone who can rush the passer, which is why we got Von Miller, unfortunately he got hurt and we all saw what happened there.

    Our LBers don't really fit the scheme as neither can cover very well, but people love Milano and Edmunds is a physical freak so it's fine.

    But then we went out and drafted a CB who doesn't fit the scheme which makes no sense to me.
    Maybe because we have to rely on and aging player to get a pass rush, the LBers and the CB we drafted don’t fit the scheme. Maybe we need to look at a different scheme or find players that fit it!

    I get Edmunds it’s big and strong but can someone explain why he’s considered a “ physical freak”? He sure doesn’t play like it. Tasker was a physical freak, Bruce Smith was a physical freak, but what has Edmunds done to earn this label?
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    Re: Where do we go FA or Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by kgun12 View Post
    We donít have a run stopper in Edmunds so if they have any cover skills we save 17 million!
    The two worst defensive showings the Bills have had the past two seasons, especially against the run game, came when Tremaine Edmunds was not on the field.

    Indy last season and the second half of the Minny game.

    The defensive scheme of the Bills nickel defense is not designed to have the MLB as a ďrun stopperĒ. Thatís why Beane signed DaQuan Jones (and almost completely turned the D-Line over) as a more reliable 1 tech DT (who was sorely missed vs Cincy), which is where the "run stopping" is supposed to happen. Additionally, the way the Bills use safeties is critical....the one position that has been decimated by injuries this season.


    I have already posted these here and here, but, maybe you should take the time (with an open mind) and read them.....


    All-22 analysis Vs Indy....


    Bills desperately missing Tremaine Edmunds

    Bills defensive tackles deserve a lot of blame for not holding up in the middle of the defense, but linebacker A.J. Kleinwas simply dreadful all game. The Colts routinely forced Klein a step too far to the wrong side, and when he tried to battle back against the oncoming offensive lineman to help make a stop, Klein rarely was able to get off the block before it was too late. He was invisible on far too many rushing attempts, and then when he had some tackle attempts, he failed to get a definitive stop. On some plays, he missed the tackle altogether. Klein was the worst-graded player on the field Sunday, and thatís saying something because of how much the Bills struggled. It also showed how important starter Tremaine Edmunds has become for the Bills.

    The Bills were able to get by without Edmunds against the Jaguars and Jets because those running games arenít nearly as prolific as that of the Colts. Edmunds has greatly improved his ability to deal with physicality this year and in how he has worked off blocks. He has also fired to the rushing lanes with confidence much more often than previously in his career. On top of those improvements, Edmunds is a far superior athlete to Klein and can challenge oncoming offensive linemen and running backs in a way that Klein simply cannot. Against a high-powered rushing attack, the Bills desperately need Edmunds in the lineup for how he confronts the opposing blocking schemes. While it wasnít the case earlier in Edmundsí career, it is now.



    All-22 analysis Vs Minny....


    The Edmunds departure was even more notable on film

    One of the primary observations we had after the game was how much the Bills missed starting middle linebacker Tremaine Edmunds in run defending. It was especially apparent in real time after Dalvin Cookís 81-yard touchdown run. But the degree in which they missed him both as a run defender and in pass coverage stood out a great deal after watching the All-22. The drop-off from Edmunds to his backup Tyrel Dodson in pass coverage was an extreme one. In the first half, Edmunds was routinely reading the keys of Vikings quarterback Kirk Cousins, which sometimes triggered him to turn his back and go find the defender to break up an oncoming pass. His reaction time, speed, and length were all plus attributes of that first half and a big part of how the Bills bottled up the Vikings so successfully through 30 minutes. With Dodson, his reactions just seemed a quarter of a second later than Edmunds, leading to multiple opportunities in the middle of the field on some clutch third-down chances. He also lost his assignment on a man-to-man coverage rep that led to another easy Vikings first down.


    Edmundsí overall importance to the defense has proved more significant than ever this year, and much has to do without the Billsí usual safety duo of Micah Hyde and Jordan Poyer being in the lineup. Defensive coordinator Leslie Frazier called Edmunds one of the teamís ďbest players,Ē underscoring how important they view him within their scheme. Edmunds is of course, a free agent at the end of the season, and opinions outside the building on him are split. But especially if the Bills are planning for life without Hyde or Poyer, or both, in the next two seasons, they might not want to start over at the middle linebacker position as well. Edmundsí strong play this season and how heís impacted the opponentís passing attack adds another layer to an already complicated offseason question.
    Now, you may object to the defensive scheme (which considering the very good defensive performance the Bills have maintained...you donít rank as the #2 and #1 team in scoring allowed two years in a row if the defense is not playing at a very high level...is rather short sighted), unless Frazier and McDermott are replaced (100% sure that is NOT going to happen this off season) trying and put the blame on Edmunds is....uh.....silly.

    I have no idea of the Bills will be successful in retaining Edmunds. There is NO DOUBT WHATSOEVER that they value him extremely highly and not only want him on the team, but see him as critical to their defense.

    If he does walk, he will be almost impossible to replace (in the short term). The Bills defense would immediately be much worse off and undeniably degraded.

    Be careful what you wish for. There is NO cheap replacement for Edmunds. There is no draft pick that can replace Edmunds (certainly not for 2023).

    The only logic in letting him walk is that there IS a very glaring needs to add offensive weapons. But, they have to actually step up and bring some in. Part of the price to pay is a much worse defense.

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    Re: Where do we go FA or Draft

    Bye Edmunds. Good luck on a team they will maybe use you correctly.

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    Re: Where do we go FA or Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by notacon View Post
    The two worst defensive showings the Bills have had the past two seasons, especially against the run game, came when Tremaine Edmunds was not on the field.

    Indy last season and the second half of the Minny game.

    The defensive scheme of the Bills nickel defense is not designed to have the MLB as a “run stopper”. That’s why Beane signed DaQuan Jones (and almost completely turned the D-Line over) as a more reliable 1 tech DT (who was sorely missed vs Cincy), which is where the "run stopping" is supposed to happen. Additionally, the way the Bills use safeties is critical....the one position that has been decimated by injuries this season.


    I have already posted these here and here, but, maybe you should take the time (with an open mind) and read them.....


    All-22 analysis Vs Indy....







    All-22 analysis Vs Minny....




    Now, you may object to the defensive scheme (which considering the very good defensive performance the Bills have maintained...you don’t rank as the #2 and #1 team in scoring allowed two years in a row if the defense is not playing at a very high level...is rather short sighted), unless Frazier and McDermott are replaced (100% sure that is NOT going to happen this off season) trying and put the blame on Edmunds is....uh.....silly.

    I have no idea of the Bills will be successful in retaining Edmunds. There is NO DOUBT WHATSOEVER that they value him extremely highly and not only want him on the team, but see him as critical to their defense.

    If he does walk, he will be almost impossible to replace (in the short term). The Bills defense would immediately be much worse off and undeniably degraded.

    Be careful what you wish for. There is NO cheap replacement for Edmunds. There is no draft pick that can replace Edmunds (certainly not for 2023).

    The only logic in letting him walk is that there IS a very glaring needs to add offensive weapons. But, they have to actually step up and bring some in. Part of the price to pay is a much worse defense.
    Do care what you say, you have an unhealthy man crush on Edmunds. I only wish he had a quarter of the talent you think he has. Only only reason any of those numbers are worse with Edmunds out is his replacement sucks more an he does. If he’s not supposed to be a run stuffer then he gets a season ending A+ because he’s horrible at it but he is great at running into the a$$ of the defensive line.
    You can love him all you want, I hope he’s not here next year.

    Are these cut and paste articles from Joe B?

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    Haha...yeah you think so ? Mace's Avatar
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    Re: Where do we go FA or Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Pink View Post
    I don't know why people hate on the Tampa 2 scheme...it's the scheme the 70s Steeler dynasty was built on. The scheme works, if you have the right players for it.

    The main component being someone who can rush the passer, which is why we got Von Miller, unfortunately he got hurt and we all saw what happened there.

    Our LBers don't really fit the scheme as neither can cover very well, but people love Milano and Edmunds is a physical freak so it's fine.

    But then we went out and drafted a CB who doesn't fit the scheme which makes no sense to me.

  12. #68
    Haha...yeah you think so ? Mace's Avatar
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    Re: Where do we go FA or Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Pink View Post
    I don't know why people hate on the Tampa 2 scheme...it's the scheme the 70s Steeler dynasty was built on. The scheme works, if you have the right players for it.

    The main component being someone who can rush the passer, which is why we got Von Miller, unfortunately he got hurt and we all saw what happened there.

    Our LBers don't really fit the scheme as neither can cover very well, but people love Milano and Edmunds is a physical freak so it's fine.

    But then we went out and drafted a CB who doesn't fit the scheme which makes no sense to me.

    Well, it's not really a Tampa-2, it's a neutered hybrid meshed with McDermott's spongy old base nickel.

    A Tampa-2 uses smaller, faster defenders to attack the ball, it's aggressive and opportunistic, swarm tackling, cb's jam the wr's at the line before falling back into their zones. We use the base zones without the jamming at the line, requires good tacklers. No one seems to want to teach our players how to tackle, or place any emphasis on it, the bear hug is always a great idea.

    But we have the same weaknesses. that middle of the field, the seams in the zones, being gashed by running backs and sliced by te's.

    Our defense is pure passive without innovation.

    Pure Tampa-2 isn't out there any more. The tweeners the latter day successful version used get damaged too often, concussions predominantly, because athletes have gotten bigger and stronger. Other teams have however adapted and meshed it with base nickel much better, with the aggression, jamming and blitzes intact, stunts, more compact zones, etc.

    Our defensive minds do not adapt or innovate, or maintain any dynamic flexibility with their own concepts.

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    Re: Where do we go FA or Draft

    This is a good idea for other positions.
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    Re: Where do we go FA or Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by kgun12 View Post
    Do care what you say, you have an unhealthy man crush on Edmunds. I only wish he had a quarter of the talent you think he has. Only only reason any of those numbers are worse with Edmunds out is his replacement sucks more an he does. If heís not supposed to be a run stuffer then he gets a season ending A+ because heís horrible at it but he is great at running into the a$$ of the defensive line.
    You can love him all you want, I hope heís not here next year.

    Are these cut and paste articles from Joe B?
    Gregg Rosenthal says :




    The Bills must add more playmakers around Josh Allen and only have so much cap space and draft currency to do so. Edmunds was one of the earliest first-round picks made by Sean McDermott's Bills and he is coming off his best season, but the cost will be prohibitive. Buffalo can't pay him more than Matt Milano, who is a better player.


    https://www.nfl.com/news/one-offseas...-jimmy-garoppo

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    Re: Where do we go FA or Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by kgun12 View Post
    Do care what you say, you have an unhealthy man crush on Edmunds. I only wish he had a quarter of the talent you think he has. Only only reason any of those numbers are worse with Edmunds out is his replacement sucks more an he does. If he’s not supposed to be a run stuffer then he gets a season ending A+ because he’s horrible at it but he is great at running into the a$$ of the defensive line.
    You can love him all you want, I hope he’s not here next year.

    Are these cut and paste articles from Joe B?
    No, the Buffalo Bills coaches and GM (and a lot of other NFL professionals including NFL GM’s, coaches and scouts) are the ones with a “man crush” on Edmunds.

    All I do is have the good sense to listen and value the opinions of experts, and reject the sourpusses that know a lot less than they think they do.

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    Re: Where do we go FA or Draft

    Build the offensive line. Money is tight, I trust Allen to win the games, if Frazier is worth his salt he should br able to keep the dedwnse good enough for the offense to win. Allen needs linemen and receivers and we need to sign and more often use Singles and our backs.
    Insert whimsical line here

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    Re: Where do we go FA or Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by kgun12 View Post
    I only wish he had a quarter of the talent you think he has. Only only reason any of those numbers are worse with Edmunds out is his replacement sucks more an he does. If he’s not supposed to be a run stuffer then he gets a season ending A+ because he’s horrible at it but he is great at running into the a$$ of the defensive line.
    You can love him all you want, I hope he’s not here next year.

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    Re: Where do we go FA or Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    Well, it's not really a Tampa-2, it's a neutered hybrid meshed with McDermott's spongy old base nickel.

    Our defense is pure passive without innovation.

    Pure Tampa-2 isn't out there any more. The tweeners the latter day successful version used get damaged too often, concussions predominantly, because athletes have gotten bigger and stronger. Other teams have however adapted and meshed it with base nickel much better, with the aggression, jamming and blitzes intact, stunts, more compact zones, etc.

    Our defensive minds do not adapt or innovate, or maintain any dynamic flexibility with their own concepts.
    Excellent!

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    Re: Where do we go FA or Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by sukie View Post
    Bye Edmunds. Good luck on a team they will maybe use you correctly.

    We will find a way to sign edmonds.

    Everyone else prolly not
    Hated by the stupid..
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    Re: Where do we go FA or Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by notacon View Post
    No, the Buffalo Bills coaches and GM (and a lot of other NFL professionals including NFL GM’s, coaches and scouts) are the ones with a “man crush” on Edmunds.

    All I do is have the good sense to listen and value the opinions of experts, and reject the sourpusses that know a lot less than they think they do.
    So as we’ve said before, you have no opinions of your own, it. I don’t need anyone blowing smoke up my a$$ to see in this defense Edmunds is a square peg in a round hole. His numbers show he didn’t get better year after year, as a matter of fact his best year was his first. I don’t no about you, but I expect a player to get better the longer they’re in the same system, but he didn’t.

    To me his performance doesn’t warrant the money he’ll want. Let someone else pay him to run into their d-lineman’s a$$. A rookie can at least do that for a lot less money.

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    Re: Where do we go FA or Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by acehole View Post
    We will find a way to sign edmonds.
    Everyone else prolly not
    I;m thinking a cheap 1-2 year deal for Poyer while they strengthen the depth there. I heard the kid Bedford may get some looks there in camp. Hamlin gone. Hyde OK to play ? They need more. Short term but far more important and financially realistic. Edmunds can walk.

    We'll see.
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    Re: Where do we go FA or Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Night Train View Post
    I;m thinking a cheap 1-2 year deal for Poyer while they strengthen the depth there. I heard the kid Bedford may get some looks there in camp. Hamlin gone. Hyde OK to play ? They need more. Short term but far more important and financially realistic. Edmunds can walk.

    We'll see.
    I’d love this but I don’t think his wife will let him sign anything considered cheap!

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    Re: Where do we go FA or Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by kgun12 View Post
    To me his performance doesn’t warrant the money he’ll want. Let someone else pay him to run into their d-lineman’s a$$. A rookie can at least do that for a lot less money.

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    Re: Where do we go FA or Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by sukie View Post
    Bye Edmunds. Good luck on a team they will maybe use you correctly.
    If we let him walk (Edmunds) would that make it easier to move in another direction and away from our current DC IYO?

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