Sherman blames Allen for Lamar situation

[Ingtar33]

Re: Sherman blames Allen for Lamar situation

You can't tell me Lamar wouldn't take a 40-50mil dollar a year contract that's not fully guaranteed. from what lamar is implying the ravens aren't even getting close to those numbers. ignore the guaranteed part.

It's not hard to get. He's a star player who has been open about his contract displeasure which gets the whole "shut your mouth and play (for my own entertainment)" crowd up in their feelings. Then with his mother acting as his agent he has an entire subset of agents and advisors that leak stories to the press to try and trash his intelligence. We don't even need to get into the motivation behind the people who think making fun of his wonderlic score or the way he speaks is somehow appropriate and doesn't imply other feelings.

Jackson is a star QB and deserves to be paid as one. It's that simple.

But the majority of what you're going to hear at the same old tired voices that just say "shut up and play".

this is probably true. The wonderlick is a worthless test anyway... here

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...%20quarterback.

Not a single variable tested had a correlation above .2 (or below -.2), suggesting a minimal or very weak correlation between quarterbacks’ Wonderlic scores and the other variables at best.

Furthermore, the results of the regressions we ran tell a similar story. After individually regressing QBR, Sack Percentage, Adjusted Net Yards Per Attempt, Passer Rating, and Interception Rate Per Attempt on the corresponding Wonderlic scores, we did not find a single relationship that proved to be statistically significant at the 5% level, and most are not even close. That is, a quarterback’s score on the Wonderlic Test does not serve as a significant predictor for any of the metrics we analyzed.

[Bill Cody]

Re: Sherman blames Allen for Lamar situation

Ravens still feel burned over that Flacco deal and yearn for the old days where they were able to win a Super Bowl with Trent Dilfer.

Flacco won them a Super Bowl even if it was right before the big contract. I doubt they feel that burned. It would be like Deshaun Watson bringing a championship to Cleveland this year and then sucking for the rest of the 10 years. Cleveland would take that right now.

Baltimore knows Jackson is good. They've made him what they think is a fair offer. Lamar doesn't agree. That happens in negotiations all the time. But it does appear the rest of the league isn't anxious to meet Lamar's price either. Is that collusion? Quite possibly. But it's also a reflection of the injury risk with this player.

[Ingtar33]

Re: Sherman blames Allen for Lamar situation

Flacco won them a Super Bowl even if it was right before the big contract. I doubt they feel that burned. It would be like Deshaun Watson bringing a championship to Cleveland this year and then sucking for the rest of the 10 years. Cleveland would take that right now.

Baltimore knows Jackson is good. They've made him what they think is a fair offer. Lamar doesn't agree. That happens in negotiations all the time. But it does appear the rest of the league isn't anxious to meet Lamar's price either. Is that collusion? Quite possibly. But it's also a reflection of the injury risk with this player.

according to jackson that deal "they think is good" was like Derick Carr numbers. which should be an insult to jackson.

[Goobylal]

Re: Sherman blames Allen for Lamar situation

according to jackson that deal "they think is good" was like Derick Carr numbers. which should be an insult to jackson.

I heard they offered him a deal that was bigger than Josh's right after Josh signed his new deal, but not fully guaranteed. I also heard they recently offered him a 3-year $150M guaranteed deal and he turned it down. I don't know what they truly have offered him, but I'd be surprised if wasn't in the $40M range. But again, not fully guaranteed. If they're offering Carr money, that's dumb.

[Ingtar33]

Re: Sherman blames Allen for Lamar situation

I heard they offered him a deal that was bigger than Josh's right after Josh signed his new deal, but not fully guaranteed. I also heard they recently offered him a 3-year $150M guaranteed deal and he turned it down. I don't know what they truly have offered him, but I'd be surprised if wasn't in the $40M range. But again, not fully guaranteed. If they're offering Carr money, that's dumb.

he had an angry tweet a few weeks ago when someone was talking about supposedly the huge contracts he was turning down, and he replied with something like 22mil a year? implying the last ravens contract offered was a 22mil / year contract. i could be remembering the tweet wrong. but he was making the point that his team doesn't leak and any leak reports are reporting is coming from the ravens. which is true. since it's his mom and she doesn't talk to the press.

[YardRat]

Re: Sherman blames Allen for Lamar situation

Not having the QB contract count toward the cap is a horrible, horrible idea.

Having a max salary is much better, but good luck getting that from the NFLPA.

[Typ0]

Re: Sherman blames Allen for Lamar situation

All the players have themselves over valued in free agency this year and are asserting themselves on the salaries for big picture reasons. A big labor battle is playing out where employers are trying to use the current marketplace to effect every contract that is signed in the future. This could get ugly.

[Goobylal]

Re: Sherman blames Allen for Lamar situation

he had an angry tweet a few weeks ago when someone was talking about supposedly the huge contracts he was turning down, and he replied with something like 22mil a year? implying the last ravens contract offered was a 22mil / year contract. i could be remembering the tweet wrong. but he was making the point that his team doesn't leak and any leak reports are reporting is coming from the ravens. which is true. since it's his mom and she doesn't talk to the press.

There is no chance the Ravens offered him just $22M/year. I'd even say offering him less than double that number (i.e. $44M) is unlikely as well.

[swiper]

Re: Sherman blames Allen for Lamar situation

What about a max contract like the NBA?

As YardRat said, you'd have to get the union to agree with that and that won't happen.

[Saratoga Slim]

Re: Sherman blames Allen for Lamar situation

What else? Endorsements? Those aren't relevant in this discussion about what gets him to play for a team.

But they are relevant from the perspective of how much sympathy we need to have for the “I need to take care of my family” argument.

[Bill Cody]

Re: Sherman blames Allen for Lamar situation

Not having the QB contract count toward the cap is a horrible, horrible idea.

Having a max salary is much better, but good luck getting that from the NFLPA.

Well to be fair that's a hard sell when the Commissioner just signed a new contract extension at some obscene number that I can only speculate about- 50m a year? 60m?

[Bill Cody]

Re: Sherman blames Allen for Lamar situation

according to jackson that deal "they think is good" was like Derick Carr numbers. which should be an insult to jackson.

Hard to know what was offered. Jackson didn't do himself any favors either by not playing in the playoff game last year when by all reports he could have but didn't for contract reasons. Availability is a big part of how salaries get figured. Look at the contract Jimmy Garapolo got. 22m a year? He's not in Jackson's league but he's a better player than Carr- when he's on the field.

[notacon]

Re: Sherman blames Allen for Lamar situation

I heard they offered him a deal that was bigger than Josh's right after Josh signed his new deal, but not fully guaranteed. I also heard they recently offered him a 3-year $150M guaranteed deal and he turned it down. I don't know what they truly have offered him, but I'd be surprised if wasn't in the $40M range. But again, not fully guaranteed. If they're offering Carr money, that's dumb.

Of course the big issue is no one (outside Lamar and Baltimore front office) knows exactly what was offered and when.

But, it makes a ton of sense and sounds very credible that Baltimore "offered him a deal that was bigger than Josh's right after Josh signed his new deal, but not fully guaranteed.”. The biggest issue is and always has been Jackson the agent having a fool for a client...Jackson the player.

Here is a fascinating article from SI today on that very subject, that smacks of reality...

Lamar Jackson Is Proving Why Players, Including Himself, Need Agents
Contract negotiations are about more than just value. The former MVP would’ve benefited greatly from working with someone who knows the intricacies of the market.

Every time Lamar Jackson advocates for himself, he shows us why he shouldn’t be the one doing it. He is clapping back against critics on Twitter, demanding respect and fair value and defending his toughness. He could be right on every single point. It doesn’t matter. He is fighting the wrong fights with the wrong people, and all he is really proving is that this is why players hire agents.

Jackson did not have an agent when he declined the Ravens’ contract offers last year, and he does not have one now, as he sits in franchise-tag purgatory. That is his right, just as it is his right to demand a fully guaranteed contract, or to insist on being the highest-paid player in the NFL if he chooses. (To be clear, there is no indication he has insisted upon that.) Jackson knows the NFL is a chew-’em-up-and-spit-’em-out league, where relationships are transactional, friends fire friends and loyalty is a no-way street. He wants to get the most he can while he can. Completely understandable. Good for him. Saving the 3% agent fee (or even less, if an agent gave him a discount) is just not the way to go about it.

Negotiations are not just about value. They are about positioning, and to be blunt: A lot of the positioning is against the rules. An agent definitely would have advised Jackson on whether to accept the Ravens’ best offers, probably could have squeezed the team to offer more, and almost certainly would have come up with other, creative structures.

An agent could have reminded Jackson of the truth about NFL contracts: A fully guaranteed deal is not the only way to ensure a massive payday. Roster bonuses and trigger clauses give players a strong idea of how much they are sure to make, even if the money is not technically “guaranteed” (and therefore does not have to be put in escrow immediately). Agents commonly negotiate for salaries to become fully guaranteed if a player is on the roster more than a year earlier. When that player is a starting quarterback, with a huge salary and a team designed around him, cutting him becomes extremely difficult. An agent could have shown Jackson that what seemed like a risk was actually a very safe bet on himself.

Snip…

An agent would have spent the last few months—or longer—surreptitiously feeling out the market, and asking important questions: Who are the other suitors? What would they be willing to offer? NFL rules prohibit franchises from talking to agents about players for other teams. But it happens all the time. The Dolphins did this with Tom Brady and his highly respected agent, Don Yee, while Brady was a Patriot. Miami happened to get caught, and had to forfeit draft picks because of it. But it happened all over the league before and is surely happening right now.

More…

[Goobylal]

Re: Sherman blames Allen for Lamar situation

Of course the big issue is no one (outside Lamar and Baltimore front office) knows exactly what was offered and when.

But, it makes a ton of sense and sounds very credible that Baltimore "offered him a deal that was bigger than Josh's right after Josh signed his new deal, but not fully guaranteed.”. The biggest issue is and always has been Jackson the agent having a fool for a client...Jackson the player.

Here is a fascinating article from SI today on that very subject, that smacks of reality...

Lamar Jackson Is Proving Why Players, Including Himself, Need Agents
Contract negotiations are about more than just value. The former MVP would’ve benefited greatly from working with someone who knows the intricacies of the market.

An agent wouldn't have made any difference. Once he saw what Watson got, it was over.

[Bill Cody]

Re: Sherman blames Allen for Lamar situation

An agent wouldn't have made any difference. Once he saw what Watson got, it was over.