Bills Mafia prepared for life after Tremaine Edmunds

[DraftBoy]

Re: Bills Mafia prepared for life after Tremaine Edmunds

Look, it's year 5 with Josh and the Bills are no closer to a SB appearance, much less win. Something had/has to change and since Dorsey was in his first year as OC, this was the move that needed to be made. Personally I think this should have happened last season, i.e. after 13 seconds, but here we are. Again if it happened they way I think it did, only 2 (maybe also Terry) needed to be involved in the conversation, thus we weren't going to hear about it beforehand since they wouldn't reveal it, at the very least out of respect for Frazier. If you believe that things were going to stay exactly the same and Frazier just quit, then that's your opinion and while I disagree with it completely, I'll defend your right to believe it and not call it "completely off base."

I don’t disagree that we are no closer, but I do disagree with the sudden narrative shift to justify that Frazier was more forced out than made his own decision. Why? Because it makes no difference at all and I’m not convinced that McD will be calling a much different D than what Frazier did. We hope he goes back to his Jim Johnson style and gets more aggressive but that’s not how he coached here. Also that style of D takes a lot of time and film work to implement weekly, I don’t know that any HC in the NFL has that much time.

In the end, I think our SB chances are probably lower this year than last year because I didn’t really see this team make any significant upgrades. Doesn’t mean we can’t make run or win it because a healthy Allen and Von can make all the difference we need.

[sukie]

Re: Bills Mafia prepared for life after Tremaine Edmunds

Who called the play that beat the Chiefs last season… the Von shift inside rush with Milano following the Mahomes forced Roll out with the disguised man coverage? It was a forced pick and it was so non prevent. Who called that?

[Goobylal]

Re: Bills Mafia prepared for life after Tremaine Edmunds

I don’t disagree that we are no closer, but I do disagree with the sudden narrative shift to justify that Frazier was more forced out than made his own decision. Why? Because it makes no difference at all and I’m not convinced that McD will be calling a much different D than what Frazier did. We hope he goes back to his Jim Johnson style and gets more aggressive but that’s not how he coached here. Also that style of D takes a lot of time and film work to implement weekly, I don’t know that any HC in the NFL has that much time.

In the end, I think our SB chances are probably lower this year than last year because I didn’t really see this team make any significant upgrades. Doesn’t mean we can’t make run or win it because a healthy Allen and Von can make all the difference we need.

What do you mean it "make[s] no difference at all"? If they (McD and/or Beane and/or Pegula) perceived that the defense wasn't being called correctly then the right move was to make McD the play-caller, which is what got him the HC'ing job in the first place, turning-around a moribund franchise. I'm not sure where this idea that McD can't run the defense he built came from, and if anything, that's what's "completely off base." And to help him, Holcomb was brought aboard. The alternative is that Frazier left McD high-and-dry with a defense he couldn't run. Which sounds better/more plausible?

As for not making significant upgrades, they've shored-up a lot of areas from IOL to RBs to pass catchers. The major concerns are RT and MLB. Hopefully with Brown being healthy going into the off- and regular season, unlike last year, that will help him and ideally one of the younger guys will step up at MLB. Beyond that, Dorsey won't be a rookie OC, Tre White should be 100% and there won't be the pall around the team/city like last year with the Tops shooting, Kim's cardiac arrest and stroke and Knox's brother dying.

[sukie]

Re: Bills Mafia prepared for life after Tremaine Edmunds

Josh’s Elbow also has to be 100%.

[Goobylal]

Re: Bills Mafia prepared for life after Tremaine Edmunds

Josh’s Elbow also has to be 100%.

Yup. It should be.

[notacon]

Re: Bills Mafia prepared for life after Tremaine Edmunds

Do you really believe that?

Yes. 100%. There is zero reason not to.

[notacon]

Re: Bills Mafia prepared for life after Tremaine Edmunds

Yeah, like I said, Frazier could have stayed as the DC in name, but with McD calling the plays. IOW a demotion.

And no one is happy to see him go because he's a good coach and person, but they needed to make changes on defense. So now McD gets his chance. And then he's on the hot seat.

Except there is zero (and I mean ZERO) evidence that the decision for McDermott to call defensive plays came before Frazier’s decision.
There is ZERO and I mean ZERO evidence that there was any shred of thinking to take away play calling duties from Frazier if he did not decide to take a year off.

Quite the contrary.

From the Tim Graham article lined to above…

Sweeping changes aren’t coming to Buffalo’s defensive schemes, which have thrived for several years despite consecutive postseason collapses.
The Bills this week expressed little concern about making a smooth transition because there won’t be much of one.

Though fans acted as though Frazier locked McDermott out of closed-door defensive meetings and unilaterally called blitzes and coverages without input, the Bills always have, in fact, deployed McDermott’s defensive desires.

That’s why the Bills still might not have staged a search for Frazier’s replacement even if he’d informed them of his plans immediately after the season. Maybe they would have interviewed Vic Fangio and Steve Wilks, but my sense is there would not have been a hot pursuit of anybody outside the organization.

Every indication is that Frazier came to his decision to take a break all on his own.

McDermott taking over play calling duties was not a “coincidence” but rather the logical progression of not wanting (or needing) “sweeping changes” to the Bills defensive schemes, which were done in unison by BOTH McD & Frazier.

It was a simple case a continuity, and the total lack of need to bring someone else in, which would, by it’s very definition of what a DC does, no one would take the job without the ability to impose their own philosophy.

The prudent way forward is exactly what McDermott and Beane have decided to do.

Take a breath. Give Frazier the room to contemplate his own future, do not close the door on him returning after one year off, and maintain continuity of the Frazier/McDermott defensive scheme that has worked extremely well for the past number of years.

I value the information from those that actually know and have every day access to the people involved over any amateur anonymous “fan” on an internet message board. I suspect that you did not even bother to read the articles quoted with any open mind.

I 100% do not buy your premise. And there are NO facts that support your effort to throw Frazer under the bus.

[Woodman]

Re: Bills Mafia prepared for life after Tremaine Edmunds

Josh’s Elbow also has to be 100%.

Gotta be or we are in trouble.

[DraftBoy]

Re: Bills Mafia prepared for life after Tremaine Edmunds

What do you mean it "make[s] no difference at all"? If they (McD and/or Beane and/or Pegula) perceived that the defense wasn't being called correctly then the right move was to make McD the play-caller, which is what got him the HC'ing job in the first place, turning-around a moribund franchise. I'm not sure where this idea that McD can't run the defense he built came from, and if anything, that's what's "completely off base." And to help him, Holcomb was brought aboard. The alternative is that Frazier left McD high-and-dry with a defense he couldn't run. Which sounds better/more plausible?

As for not making significant upgrades, they've shored-up a lot of areas from IOL to RBs to pass catchers. The major concerns are RT and MLB. Hopefully with Brown being healthy going into the off- and regular season, unlike last year, that will help him and ideally one of the younger guys will step up at MLB. Beyond that, Dorsey won't be a rookie OC, Tre White should be 100% and there won't be the pall around the team/city like last year with the Tops shooting, Kim's cardiac arrest and stroke and Knox's brother dying.

What I mean is that it makes no difference at all. What actual factor does it move whether Frazier left voluntarily or not? None.

That’s a lot of hope for a lot of players who haven’t made a name for themselves before to suddenly get it. Some of the additions, like Rapp, make a lot of sense and add valuable depth, but many of the other additions are the classic Beane trying to find a diamond or just running our own guys back.

We have the talent, but I don’t rate the team as highly going into this season as I felt last season.

[Mace]

Re: Bills Mafia prepared for life after Tremaine Edmunds

Wait, you think McD built a defense he doesn't feel comfortable coaching?



Why is it "completely off base" that McD was going to take over play-calling, thus prompting Frazier to leave?

McD is/was a Jim Johnson disciple. Frazier was Tampa 2....it's not pure Tampa 2...but more Tampa 2 atm than Jim Johnson. McD built a defense for Frazier. He has no background running similar. His effort during 13 seconds when he took the reins and said so...speaks for itself.

I don't know if they change it.

[Goobylal]

Re: Bills Mafia prepared for life after Tremaine Edmunds

Except there is zero (and I mean ZERO) evidence that the decision for McDermott to call defensive plays came before Frazier’s decision.
There is ZERO and I mean ZERO evidence that there was any shred of thinking to take away play calling duties from Frazier if he did not decide to take a year off.

Quite the contrary.

From the Tim Graham article lined to above…



Every indication is that Frazier came to his decision to take a break all on his own.

McDermott taking over play calling duties was not a “coincidence” but rather the logical progression of not wanting (or needing) “sweeping changes” to the Bills defensive schemes, which were done in unison by BOTH McD & Frazier.

It was a simple case a continuity, and the total lack of need to bring someone else in, which would, by it’s very definition of what a DC does, no one would take the job without the ability to impose their own philosophy.

The prudent way forward is exactly what McDermott and Beane have decided to do.

Take a breath. Give Frazier the room to contemplate his own future, do not close the door on him returning after one year off, and maintain continuity of the Frazier/McDermott defensive scheme that has worked extremely well for the past number of years.

I value the information from those that actually know and have every day access to the people involved over any amateur anonymous “fan” on an internet message board. I suspect that you did not even bother to read the articles quoted with any open mind.

I 100% do not buy your premise. And there are NO facts that support your effort to throw Frazer under the bus.

There is zero (and I mean ZERO) evidence that the decision for McDermott to call defensive plays didn't come before Frazier’s decision. The bolded is meaningless since it's a strawman. No one believed McD had no input into the defensive plan, the issue was game day play-calling. And if the plan wasn't for him to take over play-calling, he would have hired another DC to do it. So unless I hear otherwise, I'll continue to believe Frazier was relieved of play-calling duties and that's why he left.

[Goobylal]

Re: Bills Mafia prepared for life after Tremaine Edmunds

McD is/was a Jim Johnson disciple. Frazier was Tampa 2....it's not pure Tampa 2...but more Tampa 2 atm than Jim Johnson. McD built a defense for Frazier. He has no background running similar. His effort during 13 seconds when he took the reins and said so...speaks for itself.

I don't know if they change it.

In the Tampa-2 you have 3 LBs. The Bills play with 2 and a nickel as a base. They may actually move to more of a Jim Johnson 3 LB base defense given the departure of Edmunds. I guess we'll, but I have zero doubt McD can coach any 4 defensive lineman defense.

[k-oneputt]

Re: Bills Mafia prepared for life after Tremaine Edmunds

Spin it however you like, Frazier got fired and rightfully so. He was part of the problem. His defenses sucked in the playoffs and should have been gone two years ago.

[notacon]

Re: Bills Mafia prepared for life after Tremaine Edmunds

There is zero (and I mean ZERO) evidence that the decision for McDermott to call defensive plays didn't come before Frazier’s decision. The bolded is meaningless since it's a strawman. No one believed McD had no input into the defensive plan, the issue was game day play-calling. And if the plan wasn't for him to take over play-calling, he would have hired another DC to do it. So unless I hear otherwise, I'll continue to believe Frazier was relieved of play-calling duties and that's why he left.

I think you are wrong.


The bolded above is meaningless since it is pure conjecture. (BTW...what I wrote “I 100% do not buy your premise” its NOT a “strawman”....do you even understand what “strawman” means????)

We probably won’t ever know 100%.

But, I strongly suspect that IF there was any truth to your take ("Frazier was relieved of play-calling duties and that's why he left.”) it would have already come out. Just like the special teams call in the 13 second game was on McDermott’s shoulders.

Frazier being relieved of his play calling duties and THAT participated his stepping away from coaching for one year (instead of the much more believable and plausible scenario that he just needed a break and was frustrated by not even getting one interview for a HC positions after failing to get his shot two years in a row)...would NOT be able to kept secret and would have come out....almost without any doubt.


Jesus....just the decision to relieve a DC of play-calling duties in and of itself would be HUGE news and would NEVER be able to be contained.

Besides the fact that coaching in the NFL is a grueling job and a substantial health risk. The kind of stress and hours that none of here could even come close to imagining.

In fact, human nature points to IF that happened, and Frazier was that upset, he would have QUIT OUTRIGHT.

All the evidence that we DO have, does NOT point to your premise...but it does to mine. Common sense and human nature points to my premise.

Believe what you want....and I’ll believe what all the evidence points to.

[notacon]

Re: Bills Mafia prepared for life after Tremaine Edmunds

Spin it however you like, Frazier got fired and rightfully so. He was part of the problem. His defenses sucked in the playoffs and should have been gone two years ago.

Nonsense. He did a fantastic job and developed one of the best defenses in the NFL.