Frazier gone but not forgotten???

[notacon]

Re: Frazier gone but not forgotten???

LOL! What do you mean it has no logic? If your DC leaves, you replace him with another. Unless your plan was to call the plays yourself. There is nothing else to discuss here.

Huh?!?!?

Uhhhhh….no.

If your DC leaves, and you are not even thinking about changing defensive strategy, and and play calling strategy….which Frazier was carrying out BOTH McDermott’s AND Frazier’s shared defensive strategy….you do not even CONSIDER “replacing him with another”.

Any DC coming in would want to implement his own defensive ideas and philosophy.


The proper and intellectually honest statement is ‘If your DC leaves, you replace him with another. ONLY IF your plan was to NOT call the plays yourself or were unhappy with the whole defensive philosophy’


Once again, Tim Graham has to school you with true logic….

Sweeping changes aren’t coming to Buffalo’s defensive schemes, which have thrived for several years despite consecutive postseason collapses.

The Bills this week expressed little concern about making a smooth transition because there won’t be much of one.


Though fans acted as though Frazier locked McDermott out of closed-door defensive meetings and unilaterally called blitzes and coverages without input, the Bills always have, in fact, deployed McDermott’s defensive desires.


That’s why the Bills still might not have staged a search for Frazier’s replacement even if he’d informed them of his plans immediately after the season. Maybe they would have interviewed Vic Fangio and Steve Wilks, but my sense is there would not have been a hot pursuit of anybody outside the organization.

It is very clear that Frazier leaving was unexpected. It is very obvious that the Bills did not were considering what to do until AFTER Frazier left. As Beane said and reported….

By now, all of Buffalo knows defensive coordinator Leslie Frazier will not be the Bills defensive coordinator in 2023. This full takeaway here will be everything Beane said about it:

• Frazier came to the team and discussed his feelings on “stepping away” last week. (the week before Frazier’s annountment)
• Had Frazier wanted to be, he would still be Buffalo’s defensive coordinator.
• Beane did not rule out an outside hire, however, he made it sound like the team would aim more toward an in-house replacement, whether that be a team effort or a singular promotion to DC.
• There is a chance head coach Sean McDermott calls plays on defense.
• Frazier wants to return in 2024 but there’s no guarantee that will be with the Bills.

None of that supports the idea that “If your DC leaves, you replace him with another. Unless your plan was to call the plays yourself.” It’s VERY obvious that it is NOT accurate to say the “plan was to call the plays yourself (McDermott)” before Frazier decided to leave.

There is “nothing to discuss” insomuch that the evidence (and logic) does not come close to supporting your narrative. None of the facts (known at this time) do so.

[sukie]

Re: Frazier gone but not forgotten???

No....you are. Unless you can't understand simple English.

He stated I had a good career. Where am I the one with an issue with this? The “had” part? Is this somehow no longer past tense?

[Goobylal]

Re: Frazier gone but not forgotten???

Huh?!?!?

Uhhhhh….no.

If your DC leaves, and you are not even thinking about changing defensive strategy, and and play calling strategy….which Frazier was carrying out BOTH McDermott’s AND Frazier’s shared defensive strategy….you do not even CONSIDER “replacing him with another”.

Any DC coming in would want to implement his own defensive ideas and philosophy.


The proper and intellectually honest statement is ‘If your DC leaves, you replace him with another. ONLY IF your plan was to NOT call the plays yourself or were unhappy with the whole defensive philosophy’


Once again, Tim Graham has to school you with true logic….



It is very clear that Frazier leaving was unexpected. It is very obvious that the Bills did not were considering what to do until AFTER Frazier left. As Beane said and reported….



None of that supports the idea that “If your DC leaves, you replace him with another. Unless your plan was to call the plays yourself.” It’s VERY obvious that it is NOT accurate to say the “plan was to call the plays yourself (McDermott)” before Frazier decided to leave.

There is “nothing to discuss” insomuch that the evidence (and logic) does not come close to supporting your narrative. None of the facts (known at this time) do so.

Name all the teams with no DC. There are no others. Again if Frazier left and McD wasn't planning on calling the plays himself, he would have promoted someone so as to prevent "sweeping changes."

As for Beane, he's not going to come out and say "Sean was going to call the plays so Les decided to leave." Nothing he said is incongruous with that scenario and even hinted at it with the "in-house replacement" statement.

[Novacane]

Re: Frazier gone but not forgotten???

Why does this stupid thread have 8 pages? Frasier was deservedly fired. For cause. Move on.

Because it the boring offseason and one person insists he wasn't

[notacon]

Re: Frazier gone but not forgotten???

Name all the teams with no DC. There are no others. Again if Frazier left and McD wasn't planning on calling the plays himself, he would have promoted someone so as to prevent "sweeping changes."

As for Beane, he's not going to come out and say "Sean was going to call the plays so Les decided to leave." Nothing he said is incongruous with that scenario and even hinted at it with the "in-house replacement" statement.

Huh?? Sorry, but that makes no sense in light of what actually happened and what I posted that Beane said.

There are a lot of ways to avoid talking about what a GM does not want to talk about. This was not one of those times. Beane is NOT known as a GM that is dishonest or misleading. He was very forthright with the situation, and would have to be a bald faced liar if what he said was not accurate.

When he says "There is a chance head coach Sean McDermott calls plays on defense.” that means that it was not decided (McD calling plays) before Frazier left, and was still undetermined in the days following Frazier telling the team he was taking a leave.


It’s really easy to understand.

Those are the facts based on all the evidence. I guess you can conure up any conspiracy theory you like....does not make it credible, like most conspiracy that are not.

[notacon]

Re: Frazier gone but not forgotten???

Because it the boring offseason and one person insists he wasn't

No....the better and more accurate premise is....

'Because it the boring offseason and one person actually follows the facts and evidence and shoots down a false narrative that is conjured up as a way to crap on an extremely good DC.’

Make no mistake...the whole idea that Frazier was “fired” and did not do exactly what he (and the team) said he did and why, is an effort to smear and denigrate Frazier.

When he did, in fact, take a leave from coaching for one year, that ruins the false narrative of the cynics (that he sucked and deserved to be fired)...so they fight back with even more false narratives that are not based on any facts or evidence but conjured up in their own minds to rationalize their inaccurate narrative.

We see this kind of mindset in a segment of today’s society when conspiracy theorists (although to a larger degree than this subject) put out a wacky theory not supported by any evidence or facts...and that lack of evidence or facts just fuels the conspiracy further as the lack of such proves the conspiracy theory, as in ’the nefarious bad people that are part of the conspiracy are very effective of covering up the facts and evidence.’

It’s a never ending cycle....

Conspiracy theories are essentially irrefutable: logical contradictions, evidence showing the opposite, even the complete absence of proof have no bearing on the conspiratorial explanation because they can always be accounted for in terms of the conspiracy. The lack of proof about a plot, or any positive proof against its existence, is turned around and taken as evidence of the craftiness of the secret cabal behind the conspiracy. It is seen as confirmation of the conspirators’ ability to conceal their machinations.

[swiper]

Re: Frazier gone but not forgotten???

[Goobylal]

Re: Frazier gone but not forgotten???

Huh?? Sorry, but that makes no sense in light of what actually happened and what I posted that Beane said.

There are a lot of ways to avoid talking about what a GM does not want to talk about. This was not one of those times. Beane is NOT known as a GM that is dishonest or misleading. He was very forthright with the situation, and would have to be a bald faced liar if what he said was not accurate.

When he says "There is a chance head coach Sean McDermott calls plays on defense.” that means that it was not decided (McD calling plays) before Frazier left, and was still undetermined in the days following Frazier telling the team he was taking a leave.


It’s really easy to understand.

Those are the facts based on all the evidence. I guess you can conure up any conspiracy theory you like....does not make it credible, like most conspiracy that are not.

The way what actually happened? And again, Beane's not going to say "McD was going to take over play-calling anyway" because it reveals that Frazier was demoted and that's why he left. So he throws out the "maybe McD will call plays..."

[sukie]

Re: Frazier gone but not forgotten???

Thread title test. Frasier. He was the Psychiatrist on Cheers who moved to Seattle. Had a radio show and a brother named Niles?

yup Not forgotten.

[notacon]

Re: Frazier gone but not forgotten???

The way what actually happened? And again, Beane's not going to say "McD was going to take over play-calling anyway" because it reveals that Frazier was demoted and that's why he left. So he throws out the "maybe McD will call plays..."

So, you are calling Beane a liar.

How pathetic.

[Goobylal]

Re: Frazier gone but not forgotten???

So, you are calling Beane a liar.

How pathetic.

It was a white lie so who cares? It gives the impression that Frazier left on his own, which looks better for him than leaving after being demoted.

[notacon]

Re: Frazier gone but not forgotten???

It was a white lie so who cares? It gives the impression that Frazier left on his own, which looks better for him than leaving after being demoted.

Except there is zero evidence it was a “white lie” or any other kind of lie.


Frazier DID “leave on his own”. There is NO evidence that it was anything other than that.

The purposes of promoting that Beane DID lie or that Frazier did not leave on his own is to denigrate Frazier. That too is pathetic.

[Goobylal]

Re: Frazier gone but not forgotten???

Except there is zero evidence it was a “white lie” or any other kind of lie.


Frazier DID “leave on his own”. There is NO evidence that it was anything other than that.

The purposes of promoting that Beane DID lie or that Frazier did not leave on his own is to denigrate Frazier. That too is pathetic.

Yes he left on his own. I never said he was fired, just that he was demoted and decided to leave.

And sorry if many of us are denigrating his defensive coaching in the playoffs. I suspect you're trying to make this about something other than that. So now we'll see what McD can do and whether it was right or wrong.

[swiper]

Re: Frazier gone but not forgotten???

Yes he left on his own. I never said he was fired, just that he was demoted and decided to leave.

And sorry if many of us are denigrating his defensive coaching in the playoffs. I suspect you're trying to make this about something other than that. So now we'll see what McD can do and whether it was right or wrong.

You mean like not letting the CBs play ten yards off the line of scrimmage? LOL.

[notacon]

Re: Frazier gone but not forgotten???

Yes he left on his own. I never said he was fired, just that he was demoted and decided to leave.

And sorry if many of us are denigrating his defensive coaching in the playoffs. I suspect you're trying to make this about something other than that. So now we'll see what McD can do and whether it was right or wrong.

Except there is also no evidence that he was "demoted and decided to leave”. That too is an attempt to denigrate Frazier when he does not deserve it.

The defense was not at the root of any loss last year. Every loss was mostly on the offense. The “something else” is the unjustified denigration of the defense and Frazier. Losing him is bad for the team.

The chances of the defense being better in 2023 over 2022 is almost a no brainer and will not reflect if the phantom idea that Frazier was “demoted” was “right or wrong". Unless the injury bug is close to what it was last.

If Von Miller is healthy for most of the season and especially late in the season and playoffs....if Micah Hyde plays all year and is healthy for most of the season and especially late in the season and playoffs....and if Tre’ White is 100% recovered....and if Poyer is healthy (healthier than last year where he was struggling with injuries all season) for most of the season and especially late in the season and playoffs....if Elam starts to lay up to the expectation of a first round pick....if the first safety backup, Hamlin, plays and does not die on the field....if Poona Ford and especially Leo Floyd contribute as expected....it would be a massive surprise if the defense took a step backwards.

What we DO know is that the loss of Brain Daboll DID have a negative effect on the offense, and the offense underperforming (despite very, very few injuries) contributed much more to every single lass last season, NOT the defense.

Yeah...the “other thing” is just how obtuse some of the opinions are concentring on denigrating Frazier instead of observing where the real problems and weak spots on the team were.

Frazier was not one of the weak spots. His loss is not good for the Bills.