According to Michael Lombardi, a former NFL general manager now with The Daily Coach, there were disagreements between McDermott and Frazier leading to the defensive coordinator’s departure from Buffalo. Specifically, McDermott wanted to call plays and Frazier did not want to give up that game-day responsibility… so he left.
Essentially what I said and you dismissed it…like usual.
You betcha I dismissed the fan theories at that time.
WHY?? Like I said, accurately, was that there was ZERO evidence of that at that time. That was then. Now we are seeing some “evidence” from (what seems to be) a credible source.
I base my opinions on evidence. At that time, what I said was 100% accurate...."the idea that Frazier was pushed out, or left because of the phantom idea that defensive play calling was being taken away...I doubt VERY MUCH and there is zero evidence of that....except in the musings on ill informed “fans” guessing.”
Interestingly, if one accepts what Mr. Lombardi says, it shoots down TWO, HUGE premises that have been bouncing around here by ignorant (as in they do not have first or even second hand knowledge) used to smear Leslie Frazier.
#1. That Frazier was “FIRED”. Clearly what Lombardi says is that Frazier's (his decision) to leave was based on McDermotts “wanting” to call plays.
#2...THIS is a MASSIVE one....that unlike the criticism that has been heaped on Frazier for blame for the “13 seconds”, because it was assumed that FRAZIER called the plays for that...is WRONG (according to Lombardi) McDermott took over play calling for the 13 seconds and HE ****ed it up?!?!?
Well...that kinda ruins so much of the vitriol thrown Frazier way. Maybe that did happen...maybe not. On top of what has been reported by Tyler Dunn, McDermott was the guy who big footed the special teams coach and forced the AWFUL decision to kick the ball into the end zone instead of doing what th Bills did several times during the season and at least once during that game....kick it short and force KC to field it which would have taken (about) 6-7 seconds off the clock. A whole other ball of wax then 13 seconds with the ball on their own 25.
If (and that is a BIG “if”) McDermott has been meddling in defensive plays calling from time to time, and so many “fans” here try to **** on the defense baling FRAZIER...well...that’s been shot to hell.
In any event, Lombardi’s theories (“evidence”, I guess) was almost immediately refuted (as was the theory of yours that I agreed with) that Digg’s drama was because of a rift with Dorsey) by a very well informed writer who is known for having a lot of ties within the Bills organization.
I never really heard (or more likely did not pay attention) of Michale Lombardi until this came out. His last job in the NFL was working for the New England Patriots so there is some reason to doubt anything he says about the Bills.
Tim Graham, on the Peter hand, is a writer I respect and trust.
Recent comments from Michael Lombardi about the Buffalo Billsappear to have dropped quite the bombshell. The short version is that it has to do with a couple of key allegations in recent Bills events. Have you been perturbed by “13 Seconds,” defensive play-calling, and/or the weird departure of assistant head coach/defensive coordinator Leslie Frazier? Lombardi asserted that the play-calling for “13 Seconds” was head coach Sean McDermott, not Leslie Frazier. Further, that this and other developments led to Frazier leaving (check the link below for the full story).
Well, every coin has two sides and Tim Graham, known for his deep connections to Buffalo sports, had a different perspective on the matter. Per Graham, “McDermott told me at the combine that the only time he ever called the plays was that brief time in 2018.” This is of course a reference to the time McDermott took over play calling mid-game against the Los Angeles Chargers. Frazier resumed his usual duties the following game.
In addition, Graham indicates that this was told to him after specifically being asked “how often he’d taken over” defensive play calling. That appears to be a preemptive attempt by Graham to get ahead of any skeptical tearing apart of the response he claimed to have gotten. That wasn’t the only drama that Graham dove into recently.
During a recent episode of “Talking Buffalo,” Tim Graham also discussed the little he knows about the issue that led to Stefon Diggs missing 50% of the team’s mandatory minicamp this season. While Graham couldn’t say what the reason was, he was able to say what one reason wasn’t.
The widely speculated rift between Stefon Diggs and offensive coordinator Ken Dorsey can be considered nonexistent per Graham. With that being the leading theory in most circles, the answer is a double-edged sword. It seemingly clears Dorsey, but leaves us left to continue looking for other parties to point at.
Hmmmmmm….differing theories.
Is Mr. Lombardi expressing his opinion of what happened??? Or does it come from information from any of the principles.
He does not say.
There are some significant differences in the stories.
If you want to accept Lombardi 100% without question, then that means that two theories being thrown around here willy-nilly like there are “fact” have been shot to pieces.
At this point, the “evidence” is still very murky and certainly not nearly enough to declare exactly what happened as fact. Yet...I suspect some posters will anyway.
I can say this though.....with some of the information that has been coming out, it sure seems like McDermott has THIS season to show that he has what it takes to win a Super Bowl. If not...I’m not sure how much longer he will have support from the fans (me included), or should get from Pegula.
Upon further review, it is not clear at all if what Lombardi is saying is simply his own “speculation” and opinion, or gleaned from any “inside” information.
I went and watched the clip on the Pat McAfee show to get the full context. I did not realize his podcast is 3 hours long. This video should start when the Bills discussion starts (at 37:06)...
The whole segment and all the comments made by Lombardi are in context to the Diggs situation. He uses the speculation (since there is no indication that he got the information about McDermott taking over play calling for the 13 seconds, I can only assume that it is “speculation”) as the underlying noise of “a lot going on” as a precursor to the Digs minicamp drama.
Later, when going though the reason why the Diggs disagreement took place, he concentrates on disagreements on how he is going to be used (with the addition of Kincaid) and a possible disagreement with Dorsey.
He comes out and says that it’s “speculation” and he “doesn’t know”. Does that apply to what he said about defensive play calling??? Again, he does not say.
Contrast that with this direct refutation by Tim Graham a very astute Bills “insider” of what Lombardi had to say, importantly and critically citing the source....
Tim Graham is asked (on twitter) if he can confirm “any of this” as in the Lombardi comments. Tim’s response?....
A more detailed discussion about Diggs Drama is captured in this video with Graham joined by Tyler Dunn who is a another very astute Bills “insider”...
He specifically reject the idea that it had anything to do with a disagreement with Dorsey (Lombardi’s speculation) and again, importantly and critically cites that he got that specific information from a Bills organization source.
Tim Graham is extremely up-front in when asked…...
“What is going on with Stefon Diggs right now…..where do you think they are right now?”
Graham: “My take is, I don’t have one. I’ve been trying to find out what is the issue, and I don’t know.
And everybody has been tightly lipped about it….I’ve been told, that it is NOT Ken Dorsey if you want to strike that one off the list, because that is about all I could wriggle out of my sources.
And when I generally come up with a column, I’m not….I’ve said this on all kinds of different platforms….I would not make a good columnist like Jerry Sullivan or Bucky Gleason.
I can’t shoot from the hip. That is a skill to do especially on deadline. For me to have an opinion on something, I get as much information as I can before I have an opinion on something.
So the fact that I don’t know what the issue is….it could be something incredibly profound, it could be something really stupid, juvenile and silly.
More…watch the full 7 min video clip
Quite right.
Sure looks like Michael Lombardi is “shooting from the hip” with speculation that has no “source” except his own opinions and thoughts.
Which are extensive for sure. Which is why his opinion cannot be rejected out of hand.
We do know that his speculation (which is quite extensive) that the Diggs drama had to do with Ken Dorsey and play calling was shot down quite emphatically by Tim Graham. I believe Graham.
As was his “13 seconds” speculation (again, it has to be considered “speculation” without any indication of source)
Like I said….
There are some significant differences in the stories.
If you want to accept Lombardi 100% without question, then that means that two theories being thrown around here willy-nilly like there are “fact” have been shot to pieces.
On this too, Tim Graham is more believable about the 13 seconds play calling and Lombardi is not.
Most important here is that there has been some satisfaction that Frazier is gone and that McDermott has taken over play calling.
That’s quite a leap to take when considering (if you take Lombardi’s speculation as accurate) and value Tyler Dunn’s reporting (based on talking to players about the 13 second kickoff debacle) as accurate…
The TWO BIGGEST decisions that contributed a massive amount to the Bills most consequential LOSS in years (in a game they should have won) are squarely on the shoulders of McDermott who BIG FOOTED his coaches and royally ****ed it up.
Be careful what you wish for and what you think is true and accurate.
Maybe it would have been better if MCDERMOTT took a leave after the 13 second loss and Brain Daboll hired as Bills HC???
Either way, McDermott had something to do with the defensive strategy for the 13 seconds. If he big footed Frazier 100% and HE was calling the exact plays....that is NOT a very good look. It’s bad enough that he (apparently) ****ed up the kickoff.
Upon further review, it is not clear at all if what Lombardi is saying is simply his own “speculation” and opinion, or gleaned from any “inside” information.
I went and watched the clip on the Pat McAfee show to get the full context. I did not realize his podcast is 3 hours long. This video should start when the Bills discussion starts (at 37:06)...
The whole segment and all the comments made by Lombardi are in context to the Diggs situation. He uses the speculation (since there is no indication that he got the information about McDermott taking over play calling for the 13 seconds, I can only assume that it is “speculation”) as the underlying noise of “a lot going on” as a precursor to the Digs minicamp drama.
Later, when going though the reason why the Diggs disagreement took place, he concentrates on disagreements on how he is going to be used (with the addition of Kincaid) and a possible disagreement with Dorsey.
He comes out and says that it’s “speculation” and he “doesn’t know”. Does that apply to what he said about defensive play calling??? Again, he does not say.
Contrast that with this direct refutation by Tim Graham a very astute Bills “insider” of what Lombardi had to say, importantly and critically citing the source....
Tim Graham is asked (on twitter) if he can confirm “any of this” as in the Lombardi comments. Tim’s response?....
A more detailed discussion about Diggs Drama is captured in this video with Graham joined by Tyler Dunn who is a another very astute Bills “insider”...
He specifically reject the idea that it had anything to do with a disagreement with Dorsey (Lombardi’s speculation) and again, importantly and critically cites that he got that specific information from a Bills organization source.
Tim Graham is extremely up-front in when asked…...
Quite right.
Sure looks like Michael Lombardi is “shooting from the hip” with speculation that has no “source” except his own opinions and thoughts.
Which are extensive for sure. Which is why his opinion cannot be rejected out of hand.
We do know that his speculation (which is quite extensive) that the Diggs drama had to do with Ken Dorsey and play calling was shot down quite emphatically by Tim Graham. I believe Graham.
As was his “13 seconds” speculation (again, it has to be considered “speculation” without any indication of source)
Like I said….
There are some significant differences in the stories.
If you want to accept Lombardi 100% without question, then that means that two theories being thrown around here willy-nilly like there are “fact” have been shot to pieces.
On this too, Tim Graham is more believable about the 13 seconds play calling and Lombardi is not.
Most important here is that there has been some satisfaction that Frazier is gone and that McDermott has taken over play calling.
That’s quite a leap to take when considering (if you take Lombardi’s speculation as accurate) and value Tyler Dunn’s reporting (based on talking to players about the 13 second kickoff debacle) as accurate…
The TWO BIGGEST decisions that contributed a massive amount to the Bills most consequential LOSS in years (in a game they should have won) are squarely on the shoulders of McDermott who BIG FOOTED his coaches and royally ****ed it up.
Be careful what you wish for and what you think is true and accurate.
Maybe it would have been better if MCDERMOTT took a leave after the 13 second loss and Brain Daboll hired as Bills HC???
Either way, McDermott had something to do with the defensive strategy for the 13 seconds. If he big footed Frazier 100% and HE was calling the exact plays....that is NOT a very good look. It’s bad enough that he (apparently) ****ed up the kickoff.
With Lombardi having no source, I'll believe McD WRT who called "13 seconds." But I've been saying that McD wanted to take over play-calling duties and that's why Frazier left, so Lombardi agrees with me. Just because one of his opinions is wrong it doesn't mean the other is as well.
As for Farwell, the initial call was TB and then it was changed. Farwell never got the change in to Bass. That's why he's gone and rightfully so.
And Daboll will need to get the Giants to the playoffs again this year at least. He was a lousy OC prior to joining the Bills and the offense only became great in his 3rd season, which corresponded with Josh becoming a far better passer.
Graham and Dunne imo...are the best.That said...McD has previously stated he called the timeouts during 13 seconds so he could see what KC was doing and respond to it. Now he tells Graham he only called D in 2018.Both statements cannot be true.
Lombardi pulled the 13s thing out of his ass. The whole thing smacked of him trying to say something provocative so he’d get attention. I’ll take Grahams word for it over Lombardi.
we saw Fraziers D collapse when pressured repeatedly. I firmly believe he was not going to be retained McD and Beane still respect him, so they let him “walk away” instead of firing or informing him he’s not be renewed so he could maintain it was his call for future interviews.
that said, I DO think McD needs to have a very good year and AT LEAST get the the AFC Championship if not the Super Bowl or be might Not be retained
Lombardi pulled the 13s thing out of his ass. The whole thing smacked of him trying to say something provocative so he’d get attention. I’ll take Grahams word for it over Lombardi.
we saw Fraziers D collapse when pressured repeatedly. I firmly believe he was not going to be retained McD and Beane still respect him, so they let him “walk away” instead of firing or informing him he’s not be renewed so he could maintain it was his call for future interviews.
that said, I DO think McD needs to have a very good year and AT LEAST get the the AFC Championship if not the Super Bowl or be might Not be retained
I think they would have kept Frazier around, but in the role that Al Holcomb is now in ("Senior Defensive Assistant"). However it's a demotion and Frazier IMHO chose to leave and I don't blame him even though I wanted McD to take over play-calling.
I think they would have kept Frazier around, but in the role that Al Holcomb is now in ("Senior Defensive Assistant"). However it's a demotion and Frazier IMHO chose to leave and I don't blame him even though I wanted McD to take over play-calling.
That is a fair assessment....but not necessarily reality.
We never will really know exactly what the delineation of responsibility was for Holcomb vs Frazier. Possibly never will. If anyone can dig it out, it will be writers like Tyler Dunn and Tim Graham.
Frazier did have the official title of “Assistant head coach” besides defensive coordinator from 2020 to 2022.
“Senior Defensive Assistant” does not sound like it was “demotion” of Frazier.
Frazier had the official title of only defensive coordinator from 2017 to 2019. When he was named “Assistant Head Coach” before the 2020 season....that did not mean that McDermott was “demoted”.
Although, without knowing the politics inside the organization, and how that hiring came about....it’s all speculation.
Graham and Dunne imo...are the best.That said...McD has previously stated he called the timeouts during 13 seconds so he could see what KC was doing and respond to it. Now he tells Graham he only called D in 2018.Both statements cannot be true.
Calling time out, which is very much in the purview (sometimes the exclusive purview) of head coaches is NOT, in any way, shape of form, the same as taking over the defensive play calling.
Not even close!!!
Yes, both (McD called the time outs during the 13 seconds....AND he “only called D in the 2018 season) can absolutely be true. In fact, it makes 100% sense.
I think (actually, I hope) that they ARE both true.
IF McD took over play calling during the 13 seconds AFTER he big footed the ST coach and ****ed up the strategy of the kickoff before it then THAT means that McDermott is the problem. Not Frazier.
Tim Grahm is much more credible than Lombardi on this one. As explained in detail above.
Either way, McDermott is ultimately responsible for everything that happens. There is no doubt that the Bills have underachieved. He has this season to finally prove himself.
The patients with McDermott is wearing extremely thin.
Lombardi pulled the 13s thing out of his ass. The whole thing smacked of him trying to say something provocative so he’d get attention. I’ll take Grahams word for it over Lombardi.
we saw Fraziers D collapse when pressured repeatedly. I firmly believe he was not going to be retained McD and Beane still respect him, so they let him “walk away” instead of firing or informing him he’s not be renewed so he could maintain it was his call for future interviews.
that said, I DO think McD needs to have a very good year and AT LEAST get the the AFC Championship if not the Super Bowl or be might Not be retained
I agree both most of this. More accurately is to say "we saw Fraziers and McDermott’s D collapse when pressured repeatedly.”
As Tim Graham said after the Frazier announced year off.....
Sweeping changes aren’t coming to Buffalo’s defensive schemes, which have thrived for several years despite consecutive postseason collapses. The Bills this week expressed little concern about making a smooth transition because there won’t be much of one.
Though fans acted as though Frazier locked McDermott out of closed-door defensive meetings and unilaterally called blitzes and coverages without input, the Bills always have, in fact, deployed McDermott’s defensive desires.
That’s why the Bills still might not have staged a search for Frazier’s replacement even if he’d informed them of his plans immediately after the season. Maybe they would have interviewed Vic Fangio and Steve Wilks, but my sense is there would not have been a hot pursuit of anybody outside the organization.
I believe you are spot on when you write....”Lombardi pulled the 13s thing out of his ass. The whole thing smacked of him trying to say something provocative so he’d get attention. I’ll take Grahams word for it over Lombardi.”
If it was a real “scoop” that was gleaned from sources within the Bills organization, he would have brought it up a LONG time ago.
If it was recent information he got from sources within the Bills organization, ANY even half way decent sports media person would preface with....
“I have heard....” or “Sources within the Bills told me....” or any myriad of qualifiers that make any statement by an analyst more credible and additionally illustrates “insider” status of the analyst.
The end of Lombardi’s interview on the McAffe show (that concerned the Bills) has him saying, without doubt, that it’s “speculation” and he “doesn’t know”....all in the context of what the Diggs drama was all about.
Since the whole 13 seconds (I’m going to call it speculation) was what started the Digs drama discussion, as in an underlying issue within the team....there is every reason the believe that the 13 seconds was part and parcel of “speculation” and he “doesn’t know”.
Tim Grahm comes out and says what he “doesn’t know”...and when he does say soemthing based on sources within the Bills he says so as in...
”My take is, I don’t have one. I’ve been trying to find out what is the issue, and I don’t know.
And everybody has been tightly lipped about it….I’ve been told, that it is NOT Ken Dorsey if you want to strike that one off the list, because that is about all I could wriggle out of my sources.”
I especially agree with your final statement...."I DO think McD needs to have a very good year and AT LEAST get the the AFC Championship if not the Super Bowl or be might Not be retained”
I‘m thinking that getting to the AFCC may not be enough. Getting to the Super Bowl is critical. I could live with (another) loss there....depending on how the loss comes about. But failing to get there is not going to cut it.
I stayed out of this but my $.02 is Frazier got fired, they just made it look like it was his choice to leave it on a positive note. We had a player die on the field last season, it’s simply difficult for people to overcome some things that quickly. Let’s hope we have a better run this year with less crap, hoping nothing odd pops up like last season’s rape accusations (debunked later).
I stayed out of this but my $.02 is Frazier got fired, they just made it look like it was his choice to leave it on a positive note. We had a player die on the field last season, it’s simply difficult for people to overcome some things that quickly. Let’s hope we have a better run this year with less crap, hoping nothing odd pops up like last season’s rape accusations (debunked later).
Again, there is no evidence to support this, at all.
If that were even close to the case, it would have happened earlier after the season ended. Almost ALL of the coaching hiring (head coach and coordinators) are done before Frazier announced his leave on Feb 28....more than five weeks after the Bills exit from the playoffs.
None of this supports the idea that "Frazier got fired, they just made it look like it was his choice to leave it on a positive note”. It just doesn’t. Simple common sense and the history of coaching hires.
Even the hiring of Holcomb as “senior defensive assistant) was done almost three weeks before Frazier’s leave. **** happens quickly in the NFL coaching carousel as evidenced by ALL five HC positions being filled in less than 3 weeks after the regular season ended.
The idea that he decided to “take a year off” in order to hopefully get a 2024 head coaching position is what ALL the evidence points to.
What is amazing...but not surprising in today’s society....is the extreme cynicism doubting what high profile people say whenever it goes against a preconceived (and almost totally ignorant....as in not having any direct or even indirect knowledge) notion in order to support that unknowable perception.
We see this all over politics that was present for some time but when into OVERDRIVE right around June 2015 and has gotten worse and worse since Nov 2020 and especially since Jan 2021.
It’s a weird mindset of attacking and smearing the INTEGRITY of almost every one involved in almost every news event.
It’s a sad state of affairs for our society.
I have zero reason to question the integrity of Leslie Frazier or Brandon Beane or any of the sports writers that have “inside” access to the Bills organization on the situation of the one year leave of Leslie Frazier.
Holcomb’s hiring 3 weeks prior to LFs exit is what is considered evidence. Leslie was DC and assistant head coach. They made up an opening for Holcomb.
At 64 years old, Leslie Frazier is older than many current suits in the NFL. However, with the years of coaching experience he has behind him (24 of them in the NFL), he certainly has a wealth of knowledge to bring to his next opportunity. However, Frazier added that if he doesn’t get an offer to coach again, he’ll still be okay.
“If that doesn’t happen, I’m good. I’ve had a good career. I’m good.”
We’ll be keeping our eyes open to see if and where Leslie Frazier ends up in 2024, even though it most likely won’t be back in Western New York with Buffalo.
That is a fair assessment....but not necessarily reality.
We never will really know exactly what the delineation of responsibility was for Holcomb vs Frazier. Possibly never will. If anyone can dig it out, it will be writers like Tyler Dunn and Tim Graham.
Frazier did have the official title of “Assistant head coach” besides defensive coordinator from 2020 to 2022.
“Senior Defensive Assistant” does not sound like it was “demotion” of Frazier.
Frazier had the official title of only defensive coordinator from 2017 to 2019. When he was named “Assistant Head Coach” before the 2020 season....that did not mean that McDermott was “demoted”.
Although, without knowing the politics inside the organization, and how that hiring came about....it’s all speculation.
Holcomb was (just) hired after Frazier left. He was his replacement. He won't be calling plays, like Frazier wasn't going to be doing anymore. If McD intended for Frazier to continue calling plays, he would have hired another DC.
At 64 years old, Leslie Frazier is older than many current suits in the NFL. However, with the years of coaching experience he has behind him (24 of them in the NFL), he certainly has a wealth of knowledge to bring to his next opportunity. However, Frazier added that if he doesn’t get an offer to coach again, he’ll still be okay.
“If that doesn’t happen, I’m good. I’ve had a good career. I’m good.”
We’ll be keeping our eyes open to see if and where Leslie Frazier ends up in 2024, even though it most likely won’t be back in Western New York with Buffalo.
doesn’t sound like he’s gonna be DC in 2024 . So much for a sabbatical.
He's old and he failed his first chance at HC. I think his chances are slim to none at a 2nd chance but wish him well. Nice guy but I'm glad he's not calling our defenses anymore.
Holcomb was (just) hired after Frazier left. He was his replacement. He won't be calling plays, like Frazier wasn't going to be doing anymore. If McD intended for Frazier to continue calling plays, he would have hired another DC.
That is not accurate. Al Holcomb was hired on Feb 9. Frazier announced his leave on Feb 28.
Originally Posted by jamze132
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