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Thread: Josh Allen Has a New DETERMINATION

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    Asst to Dean Vernon Wormer POTLAND PSILBYLO's Avatar
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    Re: Josh Allen Has a New DETERMINATION

    Quote Originally Posted by Chet View Post
    Mahomes would be great on Buffalo too. Allen would have a ring already if Reid was his HC. Both things can be true. Just watch KC’s games and 95% of the time their offensive game plan bamboozles the opponent. Alex Smith is a nice guy who was way over drafted due to athleticism. He did not have a lot of arm talent and was timid in some big moments.

    But he had his best years with either Harbaugh or Reid at the helm, which just goes to show how important coaching is.

    Chiefs have a genius, we have a clapper
    Coach Jack Ramsey was a clapper too.
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    Re: Josh Allen Has a New DETERMINATION

    Quote Originally Posted by sukie View Post
    So Josh = Alex Smith? Man you are so lost in your own argument.
    Please. You "you are so lost in your own argument” when you fail to recognize the facts that are unequivocal and undeniable.

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    Re: Josh Allen Has a New DETERMINATION

    Alex smith has zero to do with this discussion. Everyone here but you knows it. But carry on with five plus paragraphs. We collectively need the giggles.

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    Re: Josh Allen Has a New DETERMINATION

    NEW DETERMINATION


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    Allenhu Joshbar Chet's Avatar
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    Re: Josh Allen Has a New DETERMINATION

    Quote Originally Posted by Russia Go BOOM! View Post
    Coach Jack Ramsey was a clapper too.
    And that worked in the 70s with a prime Bill Walton.

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    Well, lookie here... YardRat's Avatar
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    Re: Josh Allen Has a New DETERMINATION

    Quote Originally Posted by Russia Go BOOM! View Post
    Coach Jack Ramsey was a clapper too.

    He never won a championship for Buffalo either.
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    Re: Josh Allen Has a New DETERMINATION

    Quote Originally Posted by Russia Go BOOM! View Post
    Coach Jack Ramsey was a clapper too.
    Boy could he rock the '70's or what???

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    Re: Josh Allen Has a New DETERMINATION


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    Re: Josh Allen Has a New DETERMINATION


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    Re: Josh Allen Has a New DETERMINATION

    Quote Originally Posted by ghz in pittsburgh View Post
    https://nypost.com/2023/05/26/bills-...mored-breakup/

    [FONT="] [/FONT]
    LOL my girlfriend saw this picture and was like Josh bro you gotta fix your hair. This look isn't working.
    Disclaimer: The sentiment expressed in this post is strictly for entertainment purposes only.

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    Re: Josh Allen Has a New DETERMINATION

    Quote Originally Posted by sukie View Post
    Alex smith has zero to do with this discussion. Everyone here but you knows it. But carry on with five plus paragraphs. We collectively need the giggles.
    Jesus. Of COUSE Alex Smith has a a LOT to do with this discussion. The FACT that Andy Reid only became the “genius” he is and a SB wining coach when Patrick Mahomes becomes starting QB and did not close close with Alex Smith at QB.

    Alex Smith was an extremely good QB in KC, which brings the begs the whole question of coaching being the difference between KC’s and Buffalo’s success....same with Bill Belichick and his ONLY success with Tom Brady as QB.

    The QB is the ALL CRITICAL COMPONENT. Josh Allen is a better QB than Alex Smith (at least potentially) but to dismiss the job that Smith did in KC is silly.

    Your lame arguments made me curious, how exactly do the three QB’s compare with measurable stats???? Very conveniently, each of the QB’s started almost identical number of regular season games, Smith and Allen exactly the same 76 games, and Mahomes just four more with 80 starts.

    The stats tell the factual story that my premise is based on. Patrick Mahomes is clearly a better QB than Allen, and is THE reason why KC has enjoyed such recent success.

    Josh Allen, amazing as he is, and with much untapped potential, is just not on the level of Mahomes. The stats reveal that he is more on the level of Alex Smith....their stats almost mirror each other (except for the CRITICAL turnover stat, which Allen sucks at).

    Alex Smtih Josh Allen Mahomes
    GS 76 76 80
    W/L 50-26 52-24 64-16
    W/L % .658 .684 .800
    ATT 2,436 2,566 2,993
    COMP 1,587 1,604 1,985
    CMP% 65.10% 62.50% 66.30%
    YDS 17,608 18,397 24,241
    YDS/C 11.1 11.9 12.2
    YDS GAIN P/ATT 7.2 7.2 8.1
    YDS/G 231.7 238.9 303
    TD 102 138 192
    TD% 4.20% 5.40% 6.40%
    INT 33 60 49
    INT% 1.4% 2.3% 1.6%
    FUMBLES LOST 9 20 10
    TL TURNOVER 42 80 59
    QB RATE 94.8 92.2 105.7
    4QC 9 11 13
    GWD 11 15 14


    Mahomes clearly is better in almost every measurable stat (highlighted in red). Allen, only ONE. “game winning drives” with one more than Mahomes and four more than Smith.

    The most CRITICAL STAT, that I have been talking about for months and THE reason that the Bills have been a disappointment (in getting to and winning a SB....they have been one of the best teams in the NFL otherwise) is Josh’s TURNOVERS!!!

    Especially as compared to Alex Smith. Josh has almost DOUBLE the INT’s....and almost DOUBLE in total turnovers.

    Josh Allen has 25% MORE turnovers than Mahomes. No matter who is head coach, turnover are on the PLAYER.

    Certainly, your speculation that Allen would be winning SB’s if he was on KC with Reid as the HC, and Mahomes would not if he was on the Bills, is not supported by the facts.

    My speculation IS. MAHOMES is the difference. If he was on the Bills, they would have won one or two SB’s. Allen on KC they probably would not have won any.

    Mahomes has two SB wins, two SB MVP’s and two NFL MVP’s. Even with Reid as HC, Alex Smith had none of those. It was not until Reid had Mahomes at QB that he became the genius winning HC that he is now. The deny this is to deny reality.

    Period.


    None of this is to say that Josh Allen will not get his head out of his turnover butt and fulfill all the potential that he undoubtably has. I still contend that he has all the tools to become one of the greatest QB’s of all time, and a shoo-in HOFer.

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    Buckle me in on the highway of sin mightysimi's Avatar
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    Re: Josh Allen Has a New DETERMINATION

    The FACT that Andy Reid only became the “genius” he is and a SB wining coach when Patrick Mahomes becomes starting QB and did not close close with Alex Smith at QB.
    You might want to look up what Andy Reid did with Donovan Mcnabb. 5 Championship games in a row with 1 appearance in the SB (loss). Would you put Donovan McNabb in the same category as Patrick Mahomes? I would not.

    I think it also shows that Reid is a great coach that Smith's numbers are even close to Allen's. Throw in a back up QB going in cold and walking 98 yards for a TD in the playoffs. If that isn't the coaching, I don't know what is.

  20. #53
    Registered User notacon's Avatar
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    Re: Josh Allen Has a New DETERMINATION

    Quote Originally Posted by mightysimi View Post
    You might want to look up what Andy Reid did with Donovan Mcnabb. 5 Championship games in a row with 1 appearance in the SB (loss). Would you put Donovan McNabb in the same category as Patrick Mahomes? I would not.

    I think it also shows that Reid is a great coach that Smith's numbers are even close to Allen's. Throw in a back up QB going in cold and walking 98 yards for a TD in the playoffs. If that isn't the coaching, I don't know what is.
    Point well taken


    I never said that Andy Reid was not a very good HC. OF course he is.

    McNabb was on the level of Alex Smith (McNabb’s stats in Phil are not as good as Smith’s were in KC). So, similar situations. No QB on the level of Mahomes, no SB wins. One SB loss, and FOUR lost conference championships.

    On second thought, you are bolstering my argument. Thanks.

    The point is that THE reason the Chiefs and Reid have found such success recently IS Patrick Mahomes. And the main reason that Belichick is now considered the best HC of all times is because he had the GOAT at QB for every one of his best years in NE. Brady goes away and so did the success.

    Too many posters want to **** on the Bills coaches because the team has not been as stellar as KC.


    My premise is as stated in this post (and what sukie dismissed as “crap”) was refuting the idea that TacklingDummy bought up....

    Quote Originally Posted by TacklingDummy View Post
    Different teams. Josh would have 3 rings right now if he played for KC and Mahomes would be run out of Buffalo.

    Is that...."I don’t buy that for a second. It’s more likely that if the QB’s were reversed the Bills would have one or two SB rings with Mahomes and KC would not with Josh Allen.

    MAHOMES is the difference, not Andy Reid. Same with NE....TOM BRADY was the difference, NOT Bill Belichick.


    As I accurately pointed out the undeniable facts....

    Why were KC and NE the only AFC teams to get multiple trips to the AFC Championship game (the past seven years)???

    The knee jerk reaction is "coaching and scheme”. But that’s not really that accurate at ALL.

    The MAIN factor is the combination of coaching and QB!!!!! And, in fact, the QB is themain reason.

    My premise stands. The observation that I made after the debacle against the Vikings stands un-refuted....


    "Josh Allen is THE reason the Bills are considered a legitimate Super Bowl contender, and Josh Allen will be THE reason they don’t even get there, much less win it."

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    Re: Josh Allen Has a New DETERMINATION

    Synergy, boys, not reductionism.

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    Re: Josh Allen Has a New DETERMINATION

    Nottie, the discussion was swapping Allen and Mahomes all other things the same. You contend Josh still has no rings and I don’t buy it. You brought up Smith in some silly attempt to discredit Reid. It has no bearing on the Allen Mahomes discussion.

    Start your response with “Suffering Succotash” instead of “Jesus”…. Just for more entertainment value.
    Last edited by sukie; 05-30-2023 at 02:46 PM.

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    Re: Josh Allen Has a New DETERMINATION

    Quote Originally Posted by sukie View Post

    Start your response with “Suffering Succotash” instead of “Jesus”…. Just for more entertainment value.
    Last edited by Woodman; 05-30-2023 at 08:32 PM.
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    Re: Josh Allen Has a New DETERMINATION

    I haven't gone back into the 90's to the point of the start of the salary cap, but the more relative point of fact is since 1998 is there has been only one QB that won his first Super Bowl for the team he was drafted by after getting a second contract based on performance. Peyton Manning is it, all others won their first on their rookie contract. Rodgers did technically, but his extension came prior to having more than one season starting, and maybe Foles, but his second contract was a free agent 'return' not an extension.

    Josh is on the wrong side of that history, and yes that should be considered a window closed.

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    Re: Josh Allen Has a New DETERMINATION


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    Re: Josh Allen Has a New DETERMINATION

    Quote Originally Posted by YardRat View Post
    I haven't gone back into the 90's to the point of the start of the salary cap, but the more relative point of fact is since 1998 is there has been only one QB that won his first Super Bowl for the team he was drafted by after getting a second contract based on performance. Peyton Manning is it, all others won their first on their rookie contract. Rodgers did technically, but his extension came prior to having more than one season starting, and maybe Foles, but his second contract was a free agent 'return' not an extension.

    Josh is on the wrong side of that history, and yes that should be considered a window closed.
    13 seconds could be an asterisk.

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    Re: Josh Allen Has a New DETERMINATION

    Quote Originally Posted by sukie View Post
    Nottie, the discussion was swapping Allen and Mahomes all other things the same. You contend Josh still has no rings and I don’t buy it. You brought up Smith in some silly attempt to discredit Reid. It has no bearing on the Allen Mahomes discussion.

    Start your response with “Suffering Succotash” instead of “Jesus”…. Just for more entertainment value.
    Huh??? No, I did not bring up "Smith in some silly attempt to discredit Reid.” That is simply not accurate.

    Do you know how to read and comprehend plain English???


    And yes, the fact that Reid was only able to win multiple SB’s after Mahomes was on the team and not even close with Alex Smith is extremely pertinent on the Alien vs Mahomes discussion.

    I explained, in detail why. I certainly don't need you to comprehend the obvious to make it valid.
    Last edited by notacon; 05-31-2023 at 12:57 PM.

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