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Thread: Oliver extended

  1. #21
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    Re: Oliver extended

    Quote Originally Posted by Novacane View Post
    Eh. They must like him better than I do.
    Hopefully they get this one right!


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    Re: Oliver extended

    Quote Originally Posted by sukie View Post
    Lower this years cap number and trade him with a deal in place?
    Do some of you even think before posting

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    Re: Oliver extended

    Well, he should be good from the pockets down now
    Not here to be right, just here to have interesting discussions about my impulsive opinions

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    Re: Oliver extended

    Quote Originally Posted by Cali512 View Post
    Well, he should be good from the pockets down now
    When do we get the heart?

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    Re: Oliver extended

    Quote Originally Posted by Lexwhat View Post
    Ed Oliver hasn't matched the production of any of those guys, but he is a top 15 DT in this league. I think Oliver will truly break out this year with Von Miller coming back and (hopefully) an improved Greg Rousseau. It's too bad Beane's other DLine picks (Epenesa, Basham) are looking like busts.
    Don’t forget Poona Ford to backup Daquan. IMO Ed is worth this kind of money when the offense can’t double team him. Cincy gobbled him up with Daquan out. Hopefully Poona means we always have a partner for Ed that demands double teams. He should produce.

    I think the difference between $17M and $30M is that Ed can produce when put in a position to succeed whereas guys like Donald and Von produce no matter what.
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    Re: Oliver extended

    Quote Originally Posted by All-state10 View Post
    Do some of you even think before posting
    Yes why? He’s playing this year for less today than yesterday. This deal lowers the 2023 cap. Trade after the season or before. Teams wouldn’t find the new numbers too high and he wouldn’t be viewed as a rental. Bills actually could get something for him… unlike edmunds.

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    Re: Oliver extended

    Quote Originally Posted by Saratoga Slim View Post
    Don’t forget Poona Ford to backup Daquan. IMO Ed is worth this kind of money when the offense can’t double team him. Cincy gobbled him up with Daquan out. Hopefully Poona means we always have a partner for Ed that demands double teams. He should produce.

    I think the difference between $17M and $30M is that Ed can produce when put in a position to succeed whereas guys like Donald and Von produce no matter what.
    You're right. Ed Oliver doesn't regularly beat the double teams like Aaron Donald can... Having Ford / DaQuan Jones next to him makes a big difference.

    I have high hopes for P.Ford - he signed for next to nothing (basically Vet minimum), and the value is fantastic. This year's top-4 DT rotation of Ford, Oliver, D.Jones, and Jordan Phillips is very good... The issue is (for now) - is only Ed Oliver is signed beyond 2023.

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    Re: Oliver extended

    We lose out on "Oliver in a contract year" performance since his contract is mostly guaranteed now.



    We lose out on "At least we get a comp pick when he signs big elsewhere."



    We lose out on "Let's start over with another talented player more in line with the physical norms and on a rookie contract" while we look ahead to another cap strapped year in 2024.




    How does this signing / timing make sense?


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    Re: Oliver extended

    Quote Originally Posted by sukie View Post
    Yes why? He’s playing this year for less today than yesterday. This deal lowers the 2023 cap. Trade after the season or before. Teams wouldn’t find the new numbers too high and he wouldn’t be viewed as a rental. Bills actually could get something for him… unlike edmunds.
    Dear god. Have you ever seen a team sign someone to exstension then trade them right after? Just stop.

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    Re: Oliver extended

    Quote Originally Posted by Oaf View Post
    We lose out on "Oliver in a contract year" performance since his contract is mostly guaranteed now.
    We lose out on "At least we get a comp pick when he signs big elsewhere."

    We lose out on "Let's start over with another talented player more in line with the physical norms and on a rookie contract" while we look ahead to another cap strapped year in 2024.

    How does this signing / timing make sense?


    Ed Oliver is only going to get more expensive as time goes on. The Bills believe in his ability, and I don't blame them. The results will speak for themselves.

    They got him for $17 million a year, which is well below the top tier price of premier DTs in this league. I think if Oliver hit the open market, he would have been paid a lot more by another team in free agency. Good DTs are very hard to find.

    Comp pick? Aside from Oliver, we have no starting DTs signed beyond the 2023 season (Ford, Jordan Phillips, and DaQuan Jones are all FAs after this year). I don't expect a rookie DT or a bargain FA to step in and match Oliver's production. When Oliver is on his game, he's a huge asset. He just needs to be more consistent. I expect a breakout year for Oliver this year, even though he wasn't a slouch the last 2 years.

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    Re: Oliver extended

    Quote Originally Posted by Lexwhat View Post
    Ed Oliver is only going to get more expensive as time goes on. The Bills believe in his ability, and I don't blame them. The results will speak for themselves.
    Please just stop. They do. 2.5 sacks last season. Beane just upped for $17 million a year for 2.5 sacks a season. THAT looks stupid.

    And don't hand me he was injured. If he was injured in 2023, he'll probably be injured in 2024.

    And what does Beane say to Jones when he puts in 5 or 6 sacks? "I doubled Oliver in production, I want twice his money." What, exactly makes Ed Oliver so special? Answer: nothing. He's a failed draft pick. The ONLY thing that got him this deal was that he was one of Beane's picks. A failed one at that. Ed Oliver has been impressive all of about 1/2 dozen plays in his entire career. The rest is forgettable.

    He's merely a hair better than that dreadlocked MLB they jettisoned.
    Last edited by swiper; 06-04-2023 at 07:26 AM.

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    Re: Oliver extended

    Quote Originally Posted by sukie View Post
    Yes why? He’s playing this year for less today than yesterday. This deal lowers the 2023 cap. Trade after the season or before. Teams wouldn’t find the new numbers too high and he wouldn’t be viewed as a rental. Bills actually could get something for him… unlike edmunds.
    Depends on how the bonuses are structured, but any upfront signing bonus would all drop from being pro-rated and moved up into this year's cap for Buffalo which most likely is impossible.
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    Re: Oliver extended

    Oliver, 25, Has appeared in 62 games with 53 starts for Buffalo over the last four years. He has recorded 14.5 sacks, 30 tackles for loss, and 42 quarterback hits.

    Last season, Oliver had 2.5 sacks, nine tackles for loss, 14 QB hits, and three passes defensed in 13 games for the Bills.

    LOL @ $68 million for that.


    Bruce Smith and Kyle Williams are cringing somewhere.
    Last edited by swiper; 06-04-2023 at 07:50 AM.

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  21. #34
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    Re: Oliver extended

    Bruce smith and Kyle Williams played more downs per season.

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    Re: Oliver extended

    15th highest paid DT is fine I guess. Not a lot of splash plays though. I am surprised he signed for that little.

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  23. #36
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    Re: Oliver extended

    Quote Originally Posted by YardRat View Post
    Depends on the structure, but not something I would have necessarily hopped on.

    On a slightly related note, just more evidence they didn't value Edmunds nearly as much as 'the experts' said they did.
    I was sure I was going to see this kind of crap when I opened this thread. A dedicated Edmunds Hater did not disappoint.

    Your premise is the usual Edmunds Hating baloney.

    I’ve addressed this knuckle headed little variation of Edmunds Derangement Syndrome form the usual suspects....dedicated Edmunds Haters....like YOU.

    The uneducated assumption is that the Bills did not even try to extend Edmunds before his fifth year option. No one here knows for sure exactly what happen, but it is much more likely that EDMUNDS rebuffed any talk of extension.

    The FACT is that it takes agreement from both sides, Bills and the player, to make any deal. The Bills have said time and time and time aging that they valued Edmunds in a big way and wanted him to return. To opine opposite is just plain false.

    A smart agent would have told him to sit tight, keep his mouth shut, and wait until he could hit the open market to cash in....which he did BIG TIME. Besides the fact that EDMUNDS may not have wanted to stay in Buffalo considering the unending insufferable **** thrown his way by too many “fans”....like we see here.

    Yeah....players know what fans (and other players and the sports media) are saying about them. The “experts” in sports media were all saying the same thing...that Edmunds was going to find a very lucrative market for his services...which he did.

    He got that huge contract that made him the highest paid off-ball LB in NFL history. Which means the ‘experts’ were SPOT ON in the value of Edmunds in the NFL market. Your premise is silly and rather dumb as we always get from Edmunds Haters.

    As anyone who knows anything about NFL football should know (not just the “experts”) the value for IDL is higher than for off-ball LB’s. Just like the value for tackles is higher than guards. Or QB’s (#1 highest AVG/Y) as compared to WR’s (#2 highest AVG/Y)


    The facts are plain as day. Here are the top 10 IDL’s and LB’s (all LB’s not just off-ball LB’s).

    Rank Player Team AVG/Y
    IDL
    1 Aaron Donald Rams $31,666,667
    2 Jeffery Simmons Titans $23,500,000
    3 Daron Payne Commanders $22,500,000
    4 Dexter Lawrence Giants $22,500,000
    5 Leonard Williams Giants $21,000,000
    6 Javon Hargrave 49ers $21,000,000
    7 DeForest Buckner Colts $21,000,000
    8 Chris Jones Chiefs $20,000,000
    9 Jonathan Allen Commanders $18,000,000
    10 Vita Vea Buccaneers $17,750,000
    Average $21,891,667
    LB
    1 Roquan Smith Ravens $20,000,000
    2 Shaquille Leonard Colts $19,700,000
    3 Fred Warner 49ers $19,045,000
    4 Tremaine Edmunds Bears $18,000,000
    5 C.J. Mosley Jets $17,000,000
    6 Foyesade Oluokun Jaguars $15,000,000
    7 Matt Milano Bills $14,165,000
    8 Jerome Baker Dolphins $12,500,000
    9 Bobby Okereke Giants $10,000,000
    10 De'Vondre Campbell Packers $10,000,000
    Average $15,541,000

    The fact is that the top paid LB does not even crack the top 7 of IDL. The average oil the AVG/Y of the top 10 for IDL is FORTY PERCENT higher than LB’s.


    Ed Oliver’s extension, coupled with his fifth year option, has his five year AVG/Y of $15.75M....ranked #16 for IDL. Right where it should be.


    So, your snarky Edmunds hating bullcrap is just that....bullcrap.

  24. #37
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    Re: Oliver extended

    This is a very smart extension by the Bills. A fair price for Oliver’s performance and the expectation of his future growth....he has an untapped ceiling.

    Too many so-called “fans” here, who are quick to throw quality players away like used tissues, have been shown once again that they know a lot less about football than they think they do. Especially when it comes to what the Bills do and should value.

    So many were saying that Oliver should be traded (even here after it is obvious that the Bills want him long term....we have one poster saying it’s time to trade him ) or not even considered for an extension.

    Another poster actually proposed trading Oliver to Arizona for Hopkins?!?!? Uhhhhhh....that would have been one the dumbest things to do, especially in hindsight when he was released outright shortly after that absurd prediction.

    I actually stared listening some of the crap thrown Oliver’s way. I knew better but was trying to have an open mind....maybe this time the majority opinion here was more realistic???

    Man was I a sucker.

    I should know by now to take the majority opinion here (especially when ****ting on players) with a grain of salt. Arm chair coaches and GM’s that don’t have any credible instinct or as much football knowledge than they think they do, certainly much less than enough to credibly second guess anyone, much less the Bills organization.

    This was my instinct back in January about a week after the disappointing end to the season....responding to the kind of knuckle-headed majority opinion ****ting on Oliver....


    Quote Originally Posted by notacon View Post

    Quote Originally Posted by don137 View Post
    I just dont see how the Bills can justify extending Oliver based on his inconsistent play and the Bills salary cap situation. I would trade him now and get a 2nd and a 5th round pick for him. Draft his replacement. Use the money on Edmunds if enough cap space after restructuring.
    If some Buffalo Bills fans don’t think there is a justification to extend Oliver, what makes you think that they would be able to get a 2nd and 5th round pick for him??? Or is it the case that he IS worth a 2nd & 5th round pick....and it would not make much sense to trade him.

    For the record, I lean YES on extending him. He certainly performed at very high level when Von Miller was playing and had many exceptional games, virtually unstoppable. And it’s a decision that does not have to be made this off season and the $10M 5th year option number is more than reasonable.

    What we do know is that when the decision to pick up his 5th year option came around, it was seen as a no-brainer almost everywhere.


    This was the observation from Joe B. in his last All-22 analysis, and it rings very accurate....

    DT Ed Oliver

    In a game in which the Bills needed a huge performance from fourth-year defensive tackle Ed Oliver, he had one of the worst games of his career. Bengals quarterback Joe Burrow is one of the best at getting the ball out quickly, so instant pressure would have been the best route to slowing down their passing game. Defensive tackle is the quickest path to the quarterback in the pocket, which is why he was so important to the game plan. Oliver also worked against a trio of interior offensive linemen, including a rookie and a backup, but failed to make noise from his pivotal three-technique defensive tackle position. He provided little as a pass rusher and got pushed around on rushing attempts out of shotgun. Oliver will be in his fifth-year option in 2023, so what should we make of his disappointing performance?

    It was no doubt one of the most significant contributions to the Bills’ defeat Sunday, but it likely wasn’t a sign of things to come for Oliver. He has been one of the most consistent weekly performers throughout his career, and in the two months leading up to the Bengals game, Oliver was on the short list of the best players on the roster. The surrounding talent at defensive tackle against the Bengals was well below the norm, which is notable to Oliver’s performance. DaQuan Jones was injured, a torn rotator cuff severely restricted Jordan Phillips, and Oliver spent most of his snaps next to the underwhelming Tim Settle. Oliver received a lot of attention from the Bengals because of it. Part of the trouble with the Oliver debate is a lot of the positive things he does goes unnoticed, and he isn’t the flashy three-technique some were expecting. The discussion is similar to the one that followed linebacker Tremaine Edmunds for years. Those flash plays are likely the “more meat on the bone” general manager Brandon Beane referred to Tuesday. But Oliver still makes impact plays almost every week and should remain a core starter.

    A LOT of players had really a really bad game last week for the Bills. That does not mean it’s time to move on from them.

    THANK GOD Brandon Beane does not listen to most of the arm-chair GM’s here.
    Last edited by notacon; 06-04-2023 at 12:41 PM.

  25. #38
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    Re: Oliver extended

    Quote Originally Posted by notacon View Post

    THANK GOD Brandon Beane does not listen to most of the arm-chair GM’s here.
    You're so right!

    He does such a great job at drafting, other than Allen he's been completely atrocious.

    He does such a good job at finding veteran talent to fill out the roster, we have an awful o-line that's a turnstile half the time leading to our best player taking unnecessary hits.

    He does such a good job making trades, we brought in Hines who outside of kick returns didn't even see the field.

    Oliver isn't a bad player but he's not a difference maker. He's just another replaceable guy who we paid like he's a top DT in the game.

    Donahoe was an expert too. Brandon was an expert. Just because they have the title, doesn't mean they're any better than "arm-chair GMs" or your hero that you go to constantly to give you your opinion, Joe B.

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  27. #39
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    Re: Oliver extended

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Pink View Post
    You're so right!

    He does such a great job at drafting, other than Allen he's been completely atrocious.

    He does such a good job at finding veteran talent to fill out the roster, we have an awful o-line that's a turnstile half the time leading to our best player taking unnecessary hits.

    He does such a good job making trades, we brought in Hines who outside of kick returns didn't even see the field.

    Oliver isn't a bad player but he's not a difference maker. He's just another replaceable guy who we paid like he's a top DT in the game.

    Donahoe was an expert too. Brandon was an expert. Just because they have the title, doesn't mean they're any better than "arm-chair GMs" or your hero that you go to constantly to give you your opinion, Joe B.
    What baloney.

    From one of the king of Edmunds Haters, the same negative **** is expected out of you most of the time about almost everything about the team. Your opinions are the epitome of one who knows a lot less about football than he thinks he does.

    I’ve learned to not listen to hardly anything your write.

  28. #40
    Well, lookie here... YardRat's Avatar
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    Re: Oliver extended

    Numbers don't really matter in a case like this.

    White---extended.
    Allen---extended.
    Edmunds---not extended.
    Oliver...extended.
    Diggs**...extended.
    Rousseau 2 yrs, Elam 1 year, Kincaid rookie....TBD and too early.

    Every single one of the players McD/Beane have used a first round asset on has been extended at least one year (roughly) before their contract expires.

    Except one.

    They've given very good extensions to other draft picks (Milano, Knox, TJohnson, Bass) and free agents (Hyde, Poyer).

    Rhetoric and smoke-up-your-ass coachspeak aside the team's perception is obvious.

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