I've scaled back into "prove how it all succeeds" mode. Not just Oliver...the whole process we've committed to and the way we've done it. Program should be in its' peak after this many years or it's a crapshoot if it can still work better.
Whatever...we'll see.
Last edited by Mace; 06-04-2023 at 05:55 PM.
YardRat (06-04-2023)
I'm glad I started this thread so you guys can work through your visceral hatred for one another.
justasportsfan (06-05-2023),Mace (06-05-2023),Mr. Pink (06-05-2023),Night Train (06-05-2023),The last buffalo fan (06-05-2023)
LOLOriginally Posted by THE END OF ALL DAYS
10/10
That's great, because nobody listens to the stupid ***** that you post. It's ALWAYS wrong. You don't know the first thing about football. Go away.
Well, this basically kills any chance of signing Hopkins. Whether we should or shouldn’t is no longer a relevant topic, because we can’t fit him under the cap.
This is yet another sign that Beane and McD are all in with what they’ve built. Maybe they’re confident that they have something, maybe they’re being stubborn and stupid, maybe they just already played their hand in terms of the cap, so it is what it is. Doesn’t matter- the real world outcome is the same regardless of the reason.
In 2020, the Bills overachieved a bit, mainly because of Allen. In 2021 and 2022, we had a chance but it didn’t come through. IMO the biggest reason is because this is a very good team, but it’s not an elite team. We hit a wall every time we have to face the elite.
And that’s why this move concerns me. If Oliver improves even a little- and that’s a big “if”- it could turn out to be a great deal. Even at his current level, it’s not a bad deal. But, with the cap implications, it means we’re all in. Either this team will get the Lombardi, or they won’t and we are starting over in a few years. And we already saw the results the last few years.
I just don’t see this team getting it done.
I'm not advocating signing Hopkins, but the extension freed up cap space so they have more room to do it now than they did last week. Also, there are still some re-structures they left on the table they can do if they want even more available cap.
YardRat Wall of Fame
#56 DARRYL TALLEY #29 DERRICK BURROUGHS#22 FRED JACKSON #95 KYLE WILLIAMS
Forward_Lateral (06-05-2023),The last buffalo fan (06-05-2023)
I don't know why people refuse to read or do any research before posting garbage like "they can't afford Hopkins now".
When did we start measuring defensive tackles success and ability by their sack numbers? If that was the case Phillips should've been re-signed to $30 million per a few years ago.
Not sure why you are so bent out of shape about this. The extension is relatively reasonable for a starting DT who's entering his prime. Is the the best DT in the league? Of course not, he's nowhere near Aaron Donald type, but he's also being paid 1/3rd of what Donald is.
John Doe (06-05-2023),Lexwhat (06-05-2023),Night Train (06-05-2023),notacon (06-05-2023),The last buffalo fan (06-05-2023),YardRat (06-05-2023)
Beane is gambling on Oliver breaking out before playing the final year of his rookie deal. The downside is Oliver now has his money and he may not have that fire that a lot of guys do in walk-years. The upside is they got Oliver much cheaper than we would have if he plays outstanding. Time will tell. But I’m glad they resigned Oliver instead of Edmunds.
Last edited by jamze132; 06-05-2023 at 08:36 AM.
Jeff1220 (06-05-2023),Mace (06-05-2023),Night Train (06-05-2023),The last buffalo fan (06-05-2023),YardRat (06-05-2023)
28**60**128**133**144**160**163**200**204**248
Well I stand corrected on the cap for this year.
However, moving forward, it’s going to cost cap in the out years. So, the problem remains the same. What are we doing to close the gap between us and the Bengals and Chiefs? We really aren’t, and in the meantime, teams like Miami are closing the gap between them and us.
It's a daily death march to the gallows for many. But on the way, some parting shots.
Anonymity is an abused privilege, abused most by people who mistake vitriol for wisdom and cynicism for wit
Lexwhat (06-05-2023),The last buffalo fan (06-05-2023)
If you don't like the extension, that is your opinion. Only time will tell whether the Extension pays off or not.
However, using sacks as your criteria for Oliver's value is superficial... No one is comparing Oliver to Aaron Donald, and Oliver isn't being paid like him either. It's also not like Jeffrey Simmons gets 15 sacks a year, but he is being paid almost $25 million a year.
Does Matt Milano get sacks like TJ Watt or Micah Parsons?? No. But no one can argue the value of Milano and what he brings to the table.
If you recall, Milano improved significantly after he signed his extension. There were people who thought he was overpaid when he re-signed with us, but in retrospect, it was an excellent signing by Beane.
I suspect Beane thinks the same of Oliver, and I also anticipate Oliver getting better in all aspects of his game.
Forward_Lateral (06-05-2023),notacon (06-05-2023),The last buffalo fan (06-05-2023),Woodman (09-11-2023)
Exactly.
The Mexican&
too!!
- Adriano & Emiliano, the next Villa & Zapata. Viva Mexico, cabrones!!! -
Looks like part of why we extended Ed was to close the gap this year by signing Leonard Floyd.
Note that the Fins traded a 1st rounder for Bradley Chubb and are paying him $110M over four years. He had the same number of sacks last season as Floyd.
Wake up, brush your teeth, and get ready for a day of hating the Dolphins. Or the Pats? How to choose?
Lexwhat (06-05-2023),notacon (06-05-2023),The last buffalo fan (06-07-2023)
It's a fair contract. Starting DT's aren't growing on trees. With Ed you're still hoping there's more there but it's not like he's a bum. And this contract isn't paying him like a star.
notacon (06-05-2023),The last buffalo fan (06-07-2023)
Nice try, but just more bullcrap.
Of COURSE the “numbers matter”, HUGELY, and especially what positions the Bills have decided to invest money in once their elite QB’s huge salary takes an ever increasing percentage of the cap.
In reality, your list confirms what is obviously true (to anyone who puts a little thought and football knowledge to use) and validates my opinion 100%.
This is all about investing in the premium positions. In today’s NFL, off-ball LB’ss are not nearly as highly valued as they were just a decade ago. Same with RB’s.
Look at your list on who was extended....
White - CB is a premium position
Allen - QB is ultra premium position (duh!!!)
Ed Oliver - DT is a premium position
Diggs - WR is a premium position
Rousseau - EDGE a premium position
Elam - CB a premium position
Off-Ball LB??? Not a premium position. That’s not me saying that...the NFL MARKET has said that LOUDLY and CLEARLY!!!! Money talks and bullcrap walks.
Top two paid (in AVG/Y) for each position....
Rank Pos/Player AVG/Y 1 QB Jackson $52,000,000 Hurts $51,000,000 2 WR Hill $30,000,000 Adam $28,000,000 3 IDL Donald $31,666,667 Simmons $23,500,000 4 EDGE Watt $28,002,750 Bosa $27,000,000 5 LT Tunsil $25,000,000 Williams $23,010,000 6 CB Alexander $21,000,000 Ward $20,100,000 7 RG Lindstrom $20,500,000 Schereff $16,500,000 8 RT Johnson $20,187,500 Taylor $20,000,000 9 LB Smith $20,000,000 Leonard $19,700,000 10 LG Nelson $20,000,000 Jenkins $17,000,000 11 S James $19,000,000 Fitzpatrick $18,247,000 12 TE Waller $17,000,000 Kittle $15,000,000 13 RB McCaffrey $16,015,853 Kamara $15,000,000 14 C Kelce $14,250,000 Ragnow $13,500,000 15 K Tucker $6,000,000 Gay $5,625,000 16 FB Juszczyk $5,400,000 Ricard $3,750,000 17 P Dickson $3,674,765 Fox $3,491,250 18 LS Cardona $1,575,000 Hennessy $1,492,500
And the Bills top six players and their positions….
Rank Pos/Player AVG/Y 1 QB Allen $ 43,000,000 2 WR Diggs $ 24,000,000 3 EDGE Miller $ 20,000,000 4 CB White $ 17,250,000 5 IDL Oliver $ 15,750,000 6 LT Dawkins $ 14,575,000
Yep. The facts are undeniable. The Bills are smartly prioritizing premium positions and follow the NFL market almost to a T.
LB is NOT a “premium position” in the NFL anymore. Not even close. The NFL market has spoken.
The Bills would have been irresponsible to devote so much money to one player in a non-premium position, and even worse to pay TWO LB’s within the top 10 within that positions which I have intelligently and accurately pointed out many times.
The Edmunds Haters just don’t want to hear the facts or use a shred of logic or football acumen (which they have a LOT less of than they think they do.
Of course, after I wrote my astute, reasonable, logical and accurate opinion, it’s being echoed in today’s SI by Albert Breer….
Why Ed Oliver Is One of the Bills’ Six Highest-Paid Players
Like a lot of teams, the Bills have prioritized premium positions as they’ve adjusted to the bulge atop their salary cap.
Sorry, but every time your Edmunds Hating rears its ugly head with illogic and lack of any thought beyond the superficial, my premise rings true and accurate….that so many posters here know a LOT less about football than they think they do.The Bills’ four-year, $68 million deal with DT Ed Oliver provides all of us with a great lesson on positional value in today’s NFL. The contract itself isn’t dissimilar from the one that Oliver’s fellow former Buffalo first-rounder Tremaine Edmunds just did in Chicago (he signed for $72 million over four years) and that, on Saturday, raised obvious questions, since Edmunds has been the splashier, more visible player over the past few years.
The answer is sitting on the Bills’ cap table. Their six highest-paid players, in order and by APY, are as follows: a quarterback, a receiver, an edge rusher, a corner, (now) a pass-rushing 3-technique defensive tackle and a left tackle. After that, you get an off-ball linebacker, in Matt Milano, who came in at a more affordable price than Edmunds; a tight end; a safety; and a center.
The bottom line in all of it is that this is how teams that have tough choices to make do it now.
Four of the six aforementioned millionaires were drafted and developed in Buffalo; another was traded for and extended; another was a big-ticket free-agent signing. As those players’ financial numbers have grown or have been added to the books, cap space has gotten tighter and decisions have had to be made. And like a lot of teams have, the Bills have prioritized premium positions as they’ve adjusted to the bulge atop their cap.
So how did Oliver wind up making the cut despite having just 14.5 career sacks and never more than five in a season? This is how …
• When the Bills looked at the advanced statistics, they found their defense, and specifically their pass rush, was significantly more effective with Oliver on the field than it was without him. Part of Oliver’s lack of sack production is because he isn’t tall and long, so it’s hard for him to finish on the quarterback—but he’s moving the passer off his spot, and in doing so helping others get him on the ground.
• Buffalo thought Oliver was on the verge of having a breakthrough year after the camp he had last summer. But he suffered a high-ankle sprain in the first half of the kickoff game against the Rams and really wasn’t the same the rest of the year, even though he was back in the lineup for Week 5. He’s told people he didn’t feel like himself again until March.
• The contract itself is more reasonable than you think. He’s making $17 million per year, which puts him 13th among defensive tackles. He’ll probably be 15th by the time the season starts, with two other 3-techniques (the Jets’ Quinnen Williams and the Dolphins’ Christian Wilkins) likely to get blockbuster extensions soon.
More….
All in the service to promote knuckle-headed Edmunds Hatred...just like I predicted.
And that goes for the multiple sheep that mindlessly thank your obtuse post.
I know you don’t (it’s a LIE that “nobody” listens to what I write) How silly. That’s your failing and why your opinions are so bad most of the time.
You just can't handle the fact that I am hardly ever wrong. It eats your insides like a cancer.
That’s YOUR problems, not mine.
Time and time and time again, it’s proven that posters like you know a LOT less about football than you think you do. It’s wise to not listen to anything your write....and I do that quite easily.
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