Oliver extended

[notacon]

Re: Oliver extended

Well, this basically kills any chance of signing Hopkins. Whether we should or shouldn’t is no longer a relevant topic, because we can’t fit him under the cap.

This is yet another sign that Beane and McD are all in with what they’ve built. Maybe they’re confident that they have something, maybe they’re being stubborn and stupid, maybe they just already played their hand in terms of the cap, so it is what it is. Doesn’t matter- the real world outcome is the same regardless of the reason.

In 2020, the Bills overachieved a bit, mainly because of Allen. In 2021 and 2022, we had a chance but it didn’t come through. IMO the biggest reason is because this is a very good team, but it’s not an elite team. We hit a wall every time we have to face the elite.

And that’s why this move concerns me. If Oliver improves even a little- and that’s a big “if”- it could turn out to be a great deal. Even at his current level, it’s not a bad deal. But, with the cap implications, it means we’re all in. Either this team will get the Lombardi, or they won’t and we are starting over in a few years. And we already saw the results the last few years.

I just don’t see this team getting it done.

THANKFULLY!!!!! The more I think about it, the more I think signing Hopkins would be a boneheaded move.


With more contending team coming out and saying they are not interested in Hopkins....Dallas is the latest....it’s becoming quite obvious that he’s just not worth what he wants.

Today it’s quite clear why the Bills decided to extend Oliver right now, probably reducing his cap number for 2023 by around half.

Signing EDGE Leonard Floyd. A proven rusher that has a ton of experience. It relieves so much pressure on Von Miller coming back too soon, and provides another quality rusher to rotate throughout the season.

We already know that whatever the Bills do, you "don’t see this team getting it done.”


So many so-called Bills “fans” who sound, act and and think like our opposition fans from Miami, NE and NYC.

[swiper]

Re: Oliver extended

I know you don’t (it’s a LIE that “nobody” listens to what I write) How silly. That’s your failing and why your opinions are so bad most of the time.

You just can't handle the fact that I am hardly ever wrong. It eats your insides like a cancer.

That’s YOUR problems, not mine.

Time and time and time again, it’s proven that posters like you know a LOT less about football than you think you do. It’s wise to not listen to anything your write....and I do that quite easily.

You are ALWAYS wrong. And so, have become the village jester of this board. No one ever takes your garbage seriously. Just go crawl back under your rock. LOL @ you.

[sukie]

Re: Oliver extended

This thread needs an appeal to authority.

(thinking to self… what does Joe B think of this move?)

[Lexwhat]

Re: Oliver extended

Well I stand corrected on the cap for this year.
However, moving forward, it’s going to cost cap in the out years. So, the problem remains the same. What are we doing to close the gap between us and the Bengals and Chiefs? We really aren’t, and in the meantime, teams like Miami are closing the gap between them and us.

I don't really know where you are going with this. In years past, you would point out specific things that you had issue with. I don't really see you making any suggestions now other than making a blanket statement that "we aren't closing the gap." I disagree. We are definitely closing the gap.

IMO, this is the best off-season the Bills have had in a long time. Compared to last season, we:
- Got Hyde and Poyer back together.
- Are getting a healthy Tre White back.
- Are getting Von Miller back. (I unfortunately don't know if he will be back to 100% though, so it wouldn't surprise me if his production dips).
- Signed Leonard Floyd and Poona Ford.
- Lost Leslie Frazier. I wanted Frazier gone, and it is my opinion he was basically fired, with a story "spun" to say he's taking a year off because they didn't want to publicly humiliate him.
- Made significant improvements on the O-Line. IMO, this was the biggest weakness last year.
- Improving the OLine will allow Dawson Knox to be more of a tight end than a 6th Offensive lineman.
- Made significant improvements to the RB room.
- Drafted Kincaid. I am a huge fan of this pick and think he's going to be great. I don't know if it will happen this year, or if he will need time to mature. He is a rookie of the year candidate to me.


My biggest concerns are:
- WR2 (which is why I am a huge proponent of signing Deandre Hopkins... but not at $15 million+ a year).
- Ken Dorsey
- Right Tackle (I don't think Spencer Brown is the long-term answer).
- Mildly concerned about LB, but not as much as others.


Despite the blowout loss to Cincy (who, by the way, I predicted would beat Buffalo in the playoff game) - the actual gap between Buffalo and KC/Cincy was not large to begin with. I will admit (and never denied), that the Chiefs and Bengals were a notch above Buffalo, but I can't fault Beane for anything he has done this off-season.

Instead of a generic negative statement, why don't you actually suggest something realistic that Beane could do / should have done?

[swiper]

Re: Oliver extended

This thread needs an appeal to authority.

(thinking to self… what does Joe B think of this move?)

[swiper]

Re: Oliver extended

My biggest concerns are:
- WR2 (which is why I am a huge proponent of signing Deandre Hopkins... but not at $15 million+ a year).
- Ken Dorsey
- Right Tackle (I don't think Spencer Brown is the long-term answer).
- Mildly concerned about LB, but not as much as others.

Don't disagree with any of this. But they signed Shell and resigned Quessenberry, so they don't believe in Brown either. Plus Tommy Doyle will be back.
I suspect you will see the return of Gabe Davis to 2021 form. Not too concerned there.
LB will wort itself out. They have bodies that will fill roles for them.
But you hit the nail on the head with Dorsey. If he doesn't turn the corner in his play calling they'll have problems.

[OpIv37]

Re: Oliver extended

THANKFULLY!!!!! The more I think about it, the more I think signing Hopkins would be a boneheaded move.


With more contending team coming out and saying they are not interested in Hopkins....Dallas is the latest....it’s becoming quite obvious that he’s just not worth what he wants.

Today it’s quite clear why the Bills decided to extend Oliver right now, probably reducing his cap number for 2023 by around half.

Signing EDGE Leonard Floyd. A proven rusher that has a ton of experience. It relieves so much pressure on Von Miller coming back too soon, and provides another quality rusher to rotate throughout the season.

We already know that whatever the Bills do, you "don’t see this team getting it done.”


So many so-called Bills “fans” who sound, act and and think like our opposition fans from Miami, NE and NYC.

Ok.

The results on the field show we aren’t good enough to handle KC or Cincy in the playoffs. You think Floyd covers that gap?

Spoiler alert: he doesn’t.

[Oaf]

Re: Oliver extended

I expect a breakout year for Oliver this year

Is that more likely or the same if he were in a contract year? And yes, if he kills it (win for us), let him walk for $22M/year and a 3rd rd pick. Use a 2024 2nd or 3rd on a player with similar traits on a cost-controlled contract.
Guy's best year might've been his rookie year.

[Woodman]

Re: Oliver extended

I don't really know where you are going with this. In years past, you would point out specific things that you had issue with. I don't really see you making any suggestions now other than making a blanket statement that "we aren't closing the gap." I disagree. We are definitely closing the gap.

IMO, this is the best off-season the Bills have had in a long time. Compared to last season, we:
- Got Hyde and Poyer back together.
- Are getting a healthy Tre White back.
- Are getting Von Miller back. (I unfortunately don't know if he will be back to 100% though, so it wouldn't surprise me if his production dips).
- Signed Leonard Floyd and Poona Ford.
- Lost Leslie Frazier. I wanted Frazier gone, and it is my opinion he was basically fired, with a story "spun" to say he's taking a year off because they didn't want to publicly humiliate him.
- Made significant improvements on the O-Line. IMO, this was the biggest weakness last year.
- Improving the OLine will allow Dawson Knox to be more of a tight end than a 6th Offensive lineman.
- Made significant improvements to the RB room.
- Drafted Kincaid. I am a huge fan of this pick and think he's going to be great. I don't know if it will happen this year, or if he will need time to mature. He is a rookie of the year candidate to me.


My biggest concerns are:
- WR2 (which is why I am a huge proponent of signing Deandre Hopkins... but not at $15 million+ a year).
- Ken Dorsey
- Right Tackle (I don't think Spencer Brown is the long-term answer).
- Mildly concerned about LB, but not as much as others.


Despite the blowout loss to Cincy (who, by the way, I predicted would beat Buffalo in the playoff game) - the actual gap between Buffalo and KC/Cincy was not large to begin with. I will admit (and never denied), that the Chiefs and Bengals were a notch above Buffalo, but I can't fault Beane for anything he has done this off-season.

Instead of a generic negative statement, why don't you actually suggest something realistic that Beane could do / should have done?

Another

[sukie]

Re: Oliver extended

Ok.

The results on the field show we aren’t good enough to handle KC or Cincy in the playoffs. You think Floyd covers that gap?

Spoiler alert: he doesn’t.

What gap? You worded the entire question wrong.

aren’t should be weren’t snd last season should be inserted after playoffs. It’s a past event and has nothing to do with now.

Now, Poonah, Rapp, Hyde, Tre full season, Poyer healthy, The Irishman and McGovern, Kincaid, The WR additions. The RB additions, Linebacker Room is fine without splash less Edmunds. Now too Floyd as a Starter til Von is back…

Bills did not stand Pat.

[sukie]

Re: Oliver extended

The remaining details can be found here, but in the end, the moral of this contract seems to be that Oliver could be cut after just one year and the Bills are out minimal money. It's a win for the Bills, and could potentially be a win for Oliver, as well.

https://buffalowdown.com/posts/buffa...f-01h28p8g89aj

do salary is 2 million for 2023 and there is a minimal money cut option to the Bills.

[notacon]

Re: Oliver extended

You are ALWAYS wrong. And so, have become the village jester of this board. No one ever takes your garbage seriously. Just go crawl back under your rock. LOL @ you.

Sorry, but I am hardly ever “wrong”.

You could, of course, back up your bombast and provide some semblance of proof that I’m "ALWAYS wrong” with links to what I wrote, in full context, and an explanation on what I was wrong about.

But even that would not have any credibility with the hyperbolic and silly declaration that I am “ALWAYS” wrong….like in every single post.

Funny, but in politics in the Spin Zone our attitudes and opinions mesh quite well…it’s only here in the Bills forum that we disagree…and where you try to bully me with your usual insufferable, immature middle school like routine.

But, you won’t do that. Because you can’t. Bullies like you are all bulster and no substance.

[Forward_Lateral]

Re: Oliver extended

The remaining details can be found here, but in the end, the moral of this contract seems to be that Oliver could be cut after just one year and the Bills are out minimal money. It's a win for the Bills, and could potentially be a win for Oliver, as well.

https://buffalowdown.com/posts/buffa...f-01h28p8g89aj

Makes it an even better contract.

Right now 24.5 million is fully guaranteed. That's it.

[notacon]

Re: Oliver extended

Ok.

The results on the field show we aren’t good enough to handle KC or Cincy in the playoffs. You think Floyd covers that gap?

Spoiler alert: he doesn’t.

Although the recent "results on the field” show a failure to "handle KC or Cincy in the playoffs”...SO WHAT???? Teams lose games in the playoffs. Teams win games in the playoffs.

Cincy showed by "results on the field” at they could “handle” KC in the playoffs....until they didn’t.

KC showed by "results on the field” that they were “not good enough to handle Cincy” in the playoffs (or in the regular season either losing to them twice in a row)...until they were.

The narrow mindedness and defeatist attitude infects your posts like a cancer. That’s your burden (ours is to have to read them )

Buffalo DID show by "results on the field” that they were very much "good enough to handle KC” in the playoffs, but just came up a little short with some bad decisions (kicking the ball into the end zone) and bad luck with a coin flip.


They have shown by "results on the field” that they were very much "good enough to handle KC” in two consecutive regular season wins on the road at KC. The step to doing so in the playoffs is not as much as you want to parse it to be.

The “gap” you speak about is fungible and not measurable by any single player (besides QB). The addition of Hopkins is no more the one player that “fills that gap” than Floyd.

But every little piece that contributes to the whole DO matter, and CAN and WILL (eventually) “fill that gap”. In a team game, THAT is the reality.

What “fills the gap” is a multitude of factors, that includes luck. Luck in both the injury standpoint and the minuscule differences in spilt second unforeseen bounces of an oddly shaped ball that can go either way at any moment. The Bills have had profoundly BAD luck for the past two years. To deny that is to deny reality.


There is no doubt whatsoever that this Bills team is better than last year’s. Injuries decimated the team last season, and the improvements made in almost every position group has the smart Bills fan ecstatic. Leonard Floyd is one of the improvements who has a very good chance of being that one player that does in fact “fill the gap” in some measurable fashion.


An experienced and effective pass rusher is always welcome going against the best QB’s in the NFL in the AFC. He has had more sacks in the past three years (9, 9.5 & 10) than any Bills rusher since 2019 when Jordan Phillips had 9.5. That is not something to dismiss.

You go on being your Negative Nancy self...channeling your inner bitterness and sounding exactly like a Pats, Fins and Jets fan when talking about the Bills, desperately trying to crap on them and minimize their profound achievements and unquestioned quality and contender status. EONS better than the past two+ decades of sad sack awfulness.


Again, that is your burden, certainly not mine.

What goes around, comes around. I’m very much enjoying the ride and will enjoy it even more when the Bills finally do break through.

[notacon]

Re: Oliver extended

The remaining details can be found here, but in the end, the moral of this contract seems to be that Oliver could be cut after just one year and the Bills are out minimal money. It's a win for the Bills, and could potentially be a win for Oliver, as well.

https://buffalowdown.com/posts/buffa...f-01h28p8g89aj

do salary is 2 million for 2023 and there is a minimal money cut option to the Bills.

Spot on.

A contract extension that is good for both the team and the player.

What a concept!!!


The details are worth quoting in full....

1. Signing bonus: $14.75 million.

2. 2023 base salary: $2.028 million, fully guaranteed.

3. 2024 base salary: $14.75 million, $7.75 million of which is fully guaranteed at signing and $7 million of which is guaranteed for injury but becomes fully guaranteed on the first day of the 2024 waiver period.

4. 2024 option bonus: $12.5 million, which on exercise reduces the 2024 base salary to $2.25 million.

5. 2025 base salary: $13.75 million, $8.25 million of which becomes fully guaranteed on the fifth day of the 2024 league year and $5.5 million of which becomes fully guaranteed on the fifth day of the 2025 league year.

6. 2026 base salary: $14.125 million.

7. 2025 offseason roster bonus: $1.25 million.

8. 2027 base salary: $14.4 million.

9. 2024-27 workout bonuses: $500,000 per year.

10. 2024-27 per-game roster bonuses: $425,000 per year.

11. 2023 incentives: $500,000.

12. 2024-27 incentives: $750,000 per year.

The four-year, $68 million extension has $24.528 million fully guaranteed at signing. Another $7 million becomes fully guaranteed in February 2024. Another $8.25 million becomes fully guaranteed in March 2024. The final $5.5 million becomes fully guaranteed in March 2025.

The Bills could dump Oliver after one year and $16.778 million, with $7 million in guarantees for 2024 that would be subject to offset based on earnings elsewhere. They can dump him after two years and $32.453 million, with $8.25 million for 2025 subject to offset.

This sure looks like a very good deal for a quality and young DT that still has room to grow.