DIFFERENCE IN THE BILL'S AND CHEIFS .....very simple..

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Speaking of Pacheco, that brings me to another issue in Bills chasing the Chiefs for the glory. Both teams are paying QB big money so the cap is going to be an issue for both. Winning on draft days are going to be a key factor (injury of course is an unknown factor).

That 2022 draft, the Bills had Elam, Cook, Bernard, Shakir, Ariza, Benford, Tenuta, and Spector. A year later, I can say 4 starters (I count Shakir starting next year) and 1 ST contributer. Very good draft in its own right.

Now look at the Chiefs draft that year - 8 oout the 10 picks making significant contribution by the snaps they played. 1 star already (McDuffie), 2 other budding stars Karlaftis and Pacheco.
Chiefs 2022 Draft Class and grade ranks among rookies

Pick No.	Name	Pos.	Offensive/defensive Snaps	PFF Grade	Grade rank
21	Trent McDuffie	CB	809	73.5	3 of 26
30	George Karlaftis	EDGE	791	50.3	16 of 19
54	Skyy Moore	WR	371	67.7	8 of 11
62	Bryan Cook	S	387	60.6	6 of 9
103	Leo Chenal	LB	278	66.7	1 of 11
135	Joshua Williams	CB	499	63.2	15 of 26
145	Darian Kinnard	OT	0	—	—
243	Jaylen Watson	CB	719	59.6	17 of 26
251	Isiah Pacheco	HB	414	76.3	5 of 10
260	Nazeeh Johnson	CB	0	—	—

[Mad Max]

Speaking of Pacheco, that brings me to another issue in Bills chasing the Chiefs for the glory. Both teams are paying QB big money so the cap is going to be an issue for both. Winning on draft days are going to be a key factor (injury of course is an unknown factor).

That 2022 draft, the Bills had Elam, Cook, Bernard, Shakir, Ariza, Benford, Tenuta, and Spector. A year later, I can say 4 starters (I count Shakir starting next year) and 1 ST contributer. Very good draft in its own right.

Now look at the Chiefs draft that year - 8 oout the 10 picks making significant contribution by the snaps they played. 1 star already (McDuffie), 2 other budding stars Karlaftis and Pacheco.
Chiefs 2022 Draft Class and grade ranks among rookies

Pick No.	Name	Pos.	Offensive/defensive Snaps	PFF Grade	Grade rank
21	Trent McDuffie	CB	809	73.5	3 of 26
30	George Karlaftis	EDGE	791	50.3	16 of 19
54	Skyy Moore	WR	371	67.7	8 of 11
62	Bryan Cook	S	387	60.6	6 of 9
103	Leo Chenal	LB	278	66.7	1 of 11
135	Joshua Williams	CB	499	63.2	15 of 26
145	Darian Kinnard	OT	0	—	—
243	Jaylen Watson	CB	719	59.6	17 of 26
251	Isiah Pacheco	HB	414	76.3	5 of 10
260	Nazeeh Johnson	CB	0	—	—

Yep. We gotta cash in 3-4 draft picks including at least one game changer.

Beane’s a power hitter that likes to swing for the fences so he’s gonna strike out a fair amount …but he’s also gonna crush one out of the park on occasion along with some doubles and triples (like Shakir, Benford, and Cook).

im fine with that strategy. Beats a bunch of meh players like our previous regime used to always net us, or Jimmy Johnson’s picks with the fish or Belichicks picks.

[DraftBoy]

I don't buy that. These two guys are really excellent players OK ... but the recency bias is profound. Allen has more talent and capability than Mahomes he just doesn't apply his brain the same way so he ends up being inferior to a lot of folks.

No, Allen doesn’t. He’s tremendous and capable of one day winning a Super Bowl, but he’s not at the same level as Mahomes.

[Historian]

talent evaluation is the #1 difference, hear me out!

KC has 3 guys left on this years team vs there 1st SuperBowl victory with Mahomes, they are Mahomes ,Kelce and Chris Jones on defense, year in and year out they move on from players demanding big salary's or expiring contracts.

who doe's that sound like? New England when they had Brady.. we need to start drafting and quit worrying about guys that had decent play in years past, we have Allen Cook , Kincaid and Oliver on defense, do the same..

we are just the opposite as KC, we try and re-sign everyone... KC has went through 2 left tackles, we have Dawkins, we have resigned way to many guys like Hyde and Poyer and White and Milano and Diggs and Knox just for starter.

in order to win and keep the cap in check you have to get play out of young guys while they are under there 1st contract then move on, but you have to know talent and that just might be where The Bills are different from the KC's and NE's of the Brady years.

This is a really good point.

And it's the reason the Patriots were never in "cap hell" during their 20 year run.

Once a guy got too expensive, he was jettisoned out for draft picks....draft picks who pretty much had immediate impact.

The only X factor is injuries, and NE, as well as the current Chiefs have gotten very lucky in avoiding them, probably since the teams were younger....and they played on real grass.

[jamze132]

Anyone crapping on Josh Allen is a complete fool. He is plenty good enough to win multiple Super Bowls but it’s a TEAM game. He’s not out kicking FGs or covering TEs.

I stand behind this…if we had Milano or Bernard playing instead of Klein, we’d have beat KC and they wouldn’t look like the team they appear to be. Any one of four teams were good enough to win the SB this year. It takes a bit of luck sometimes too. One thing KC does have a distinct advantage though is their coaching. They don’t make stupid decisions.

[sahlensguy]

Anyone crapping on Josh Allen is a complete fool. He is plenty good enough to win multiple Super Bowls but it’s a TEAM game. He’s not out kicking FGs or covering TEs.

I stand behind this…if we had Milano or Bernard playing instead of Klein, we’d have beat KC and they wouldn’t look like the team they appear to be. Any one of four teams were good enough to win the SB this year. It takes a bit of luck sometimes too. One thing KC does have a distinct advantage though is their coaching. They don’t make stupid decisions.

Anyone not crapping on Josh's two minute performances a complete idiot.

[Canadian'eh!]

Andy Reid is an offensive genius.

Nobody on the Bills can sniff his undies.

Combine that with the best QB to ever breath (yes, I said it), and the best TE to ever breath (yes, I said it again), and it's an unstoppable force.

Not to mention their Defense was lights out this year.

Reid/Spags having Mahomes, Kelce and Jones.

[DraftBoy]

Reid/Spags having Mahomes, Kelce and Jones.

A key difference though would be that both Reid and Spags have a long history of winning before Mahomes, Kelce, and Jones. I don’t think it’s quite fair to assume their current success is because they have those three now.

[Canadian'eh!]

A key difference though would be that both Reid and Spags have a long history of winning before Mahomes, Kelce, and Jones. I don’t think it’s quite fair to assume their current success is because they have those three now.

I’m saying it’s the combination of great coaches with great players. You can be a great coach but you need those key guys.

Spags coached a great D, but several times in the playoffs Jones gave them that extra special play they needed.

Reid makes life easy for Mahomes and vice versa.

[jamze132]

Anyone not crapping on Josh's two minute performances a complete idiot.

You’re ignoring the other good things he did to put his team in a position to win. No other team scored more points against the Chiefs in the playoffs than Josh Allen. To pin the entire loss on him is plain stupid.

[imbondz]

Mahomes has been in the league 6 years and has been to 6 AFC Championship games, won 3 SBs, 3 SB MVPs. He’s the reason. Reid is one of the greatest coaches ever but never won a SB until Mahomes. It’s Mahomes. Our only hope is that Allen can get one like Manning did against Brady.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

This is a really good point.

And it's the reason the Patriots were never in "cap hell" during their 20 year run.

Once a guy got too expensive, he was jettisoned out for draft picks....draft picks who pretty much had immediate impact.

The only X factor is injuries, and NE, as well as the current Chiefs have gotten very lucky in avoiding them, probably since the teams were younger....and they played on real grass.

Two factors for the Bills. 1) McDermott and Beane are still chasing the 1st one, as such they tend to hold-on to said expansive players and hope next year is the year ... NE of the past and KC would never do a Von kind of deal bringing an aging vet to wreck your cap for a few years because they had won without him. 2) the culture is a big thing for McDermott in a 2nd or 3rd level market of Buffalo. There is a ruthless side of the business we saw time again in NE and KC but will be hard for McDermott/Beane. Let's see what they do with White.

[sahlensguy]

You’re ignoring the other good things he did to put his team in a position to win. No other team scored more points against the Chiefs in the playoffs than Josh Allen. To pin the entire loss on him is plain stupid.

How am I ignoring the previous 58 minutes?

He played well. The team played good enough to have a great chance of exorcising some demons. They/Josh crapped the bed after the time out

[Historian]

Mahomes has been in the league 6 years and has been to 6 AFC Championship games, won 3 SBs, 3 SB MVPs. He’s the reason. Reid is one of the greatest coaches ever but never won a SB until Mahomes. It’s Mahomes. Our only hope is that Allen can get one like Manning did against Brady.

And I'm sorry, but a big part of that is the lame AFC West, which has essentially been a one-horse pony since the merger.

I'll die on that hill, because that's a big advantage when it comes to playoff seeding and tiebreakers.

[Forward_Lateral]

This is a really good point.

And it's the reason the Patriots were never in "cap hell" during their 20 year run.

Once a guy got too expensive, he was jettisoned out for draft picks....draft picks who pretty much had immediate impact.

The only X factor is injuries, and NE, as well as the current Chiefs have gotten very lucky in avoiding them, probably since the teams were younger....and they played on real grass.

One of the main reasons they were never in cap hell was Brady never demanded to be the highest paid at his position. If I remember correctly, his pay was always modest compared to other guys like Manning, Favre, etc

- - - Updated - - -

A key difference though would be that both Reid and Spags have a long history of winning before Mahomes, Kelce, and Jones. I don’t think it’s quite fair to assume their current success is because they have those three now.

What did Reid win before he had those 3?

I thought the only thing that mattered was superbowls?

[cas22]

Speaking of Pacheco, that brings me to another issue in Bills chasing the Chiefs for the glory. Both teams are paying QB big money so the cap is going to be an issue for both. Winning on draft days are going to be a key factor (injury of course is an unknown factor).

That 2022 draft, the Bills had Elam, Cook, Bernard, Shakir, Ariza, Benford, Tenuta, and Spector. A year later, I can say 4 starters (I count Shakir starting next year) and 1 ST contributer. Very good draft in its own right.

Now look at the Chiefs draft that year - 8 oout the 10 picks making significant contribution by the snaps they played. 1 star already (McDuffie), 2 other budding stars Karlaftis and Pacheco.
Chiefs 2022 Draft Class and grade ranks among rookies

Pick No.	Name	Pos.	Offensive/defensive Snaps	PFF Grade	Grade rank
21	Trent McDuffie	CB	809	73.5	3 of 26
30	George Karlaftis	EDGE	791	50.3	16 of 19
54	Skyy Moore	WR	371	67.7	8 of 11
62	Bryan Cook	S	387	60.6	6 of 9
103	Leo Chenal	LB	278	66.7	1 of 11
135	Joshua Williams	CB	499	63.2	15 of 26
145	Darian Kinnard	OT	0	—	—
243	Jaylen Watson	CB	719	59.6	17 of 26
251	Isiah Pacheco	HB	414	76.3	5 of 10
260	Nazeeh Johnson	CB	0	—	—

this is my point i'm not sure our scouting dept is all that, take Allen out of the equation and Mcd and Bean probably would have been fired already.. no other Bean draft pick is what I call a great pick, he has had some good ones in later rounds but there not steals.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

this is my point i'm not sure our scouting dept is all that, take Allen out of the equation and Mcd and Bean probably would have been fired already.. no other Bean draft pick is what I call a great pick, he has had some good ones in later rounds but there not steals.

You can't take Allen out of the equation, just like you cannot say for KC to take Mahomes out of the equation. It's a gamble we both won, but teams like 49ers lost.

My point is that we need to do better drafting in order to chase KC, not compared to the rest of the league. We both draft near the bottom every year and we have to gain on them. As it is now, KC has all those rookies for cheap in the next 2 years after winning 2 Superbowl in a row. There should be high urgency on Beane. It is hard because you have not won but you have to stick to your principle: cultivate draft and not making irrational decisions going for it all by going after expensive yesterday's heros. Evaluate your own player objectively. Let go non super star players. If you have Mahomes, Kelce, Jones type of guys, hold onto to them. Everyone else is replaceable from the draft.

I'm also surprised no one has raided the KC front office the last 2 years. Usually these things even out when one front office does outstanding work. NE in its run, GM, Coaches were picked apart by other teams completely and left BB himself standing, and you see the result in his last few years.

[Forward_Lateral]

You can't take Allen out of the equation, just like you cannot say for KC to take Mahomes out of the equation. It's a gamble we both won, but teams like 49ers lost.

My point is that we need to do better drafting in order to chase KC, not compared to the rest of the league. We both draft near the bottom every year and we have to gain on them. As it is now, KC has all those rookies for cheap in the next 2 years after winning 2 Superbowl in a row. There should be high urgency on Beane. It is hard because you have not won but you have to stick to your principle: cultivate draft and not making irrational decisions going for it all by going after expensive yesterday's heros. Evaluate your own player objectively. Let go non super star players. If you have Mahomes, Kelce, Jones type of guys, hold onto to them. Everyone else is replaceable from the draft.

I'm also surprised no one has raided the KC front office the last 2 years. Usually these things even out when one front office does outstanding work. NE in its run, GM, Coaches were picked apart by other teams completely and left BB himself standing, and you see the result in his last few years.

This. You can't afford to pay a franchise QB and then pay a WR 30 million a year. The formula of both the Patriots and Chiefs has been this. Get your QB. Built through the draft and free agents that fit your team and won't break the bank.

[imbondz]

And I'm sorry, but a big part of that is the lame AFC West, which has essentially been a one-horse pony since the merger.

I'll die on that hill, because that's a big advantage when it comes to playoff seeding and tiebreakers.

Can’t argue with that. If Chiefs were in our division we definitely would have one 1-2 division titles over the past 6 years with them in our division. Doesn’t mean we would have beaten them in the playoffs tho. Cuz we’ve proven we can yet.

[notacon]

thats strictly your opinion.. I disagree right along with 100 experts, if mahomes would have been in this offense he might be on the shelf, they are 2 entirely different schemes, something Allen would thrive in, Mahomes isn't a bruising runner like Allen nor could he take the pounding Allen has endured so far, take Kelce off KC and they don't even make the playoffs .. Mahomes has never been on a none playoff caliber team in his career, Allen was thrown to the fire with no talrnt around him..

Yes, Josh Allen did not have a "playoff caliber" team around him his rookie year. He did every other year of his career, and especially starting 2020 when the traded for Diggs.

A lot of people around the league were saying the Chiefs were a diminished team when Treek Hill left. Baloney. They have now won two SB's without him, and today have a sad sack group of below average WR's around him. BTW, Kelce was on the team for FIVE YEARS when Smith was QB....not even close to a SB.


No Mahomes...no SB. Mahomes...multiple SB's.

In any event, I presented FACTS about Reid and Mahomes.

The same facts exist for multiple Super Bowl winning coaches. They almost all (Joe Gibbs is the anomaly) won when they had elite QB's, and did not win then they did not have one.

There are only 14 NFL head coaches that have one more than one SB....

	Years HC	# of Teams	# SB Wins	QB
Bill Belichick	24	2	6	All with Tom Brady
Chuck Noll	23	1	4	All with Terry Bradshw
Bill Walsh	10	1	3	All with Joe Montana
Joe Gibbs	16	1	3	Joe Theisman	Doug Williams	Mark Rypien
Andy Reid	26	2	3	All with Patrick Mahomes
Vince Lombardi	9	2	2	Both with Bart Starr
Tom Flores	12	2	2	Both with Jim Plunkett
Jimmy Johnson	9	2	2	Both with Troy Aikman
George Seifert	14	2	2	Joe Montana	Steve Young
Mike Shanahan	20	3	2	Both with John Elway
Tom Coughlin	21	2	2	Both with Eli Manning
Bill Parcells	19	4	2	Phil Simms	Phil Simms/Jeff Hostetler*
Don Shula	33	2	2	Both with Bob Griese
Tom Landry	29	1	2	Both with Roger Staubach

*Phil Simms was the QB that got the 1990 NY Giants to the Super Bowl. He was injured in week #15.

NO NFL HC has ever won a Super Bowl with two different teams.

TWO QB's HAVE. Peyton Manning and Tom Brady. Two other QB's started a Super Bowls for two different teams...Kurt Warner (won one) and Craig Morton (did not win any as starter).

The anomaly of a HC winning SB's with multiple QB's (two of which were not elite and journeymen) is Joe Gibbs. Notably, those SB wins were before the salary cap era and especially the myriad of rules changes to protect the QB, and exponentially increase the importance of the passing game.

Great QB"s MAKE great coaches.

The most stunning example of that is Bill Belichick. No Brady, not even close to a SB. Brady goes to another team, and he makes long time coach Bruce Arians (FORTY SIX YEARS in coaching at all levels including NINE different NFL franchises for 28 years, including eight years as HC for two different NFL teams) look like a great HC by winning a Super Bowl...the only SB title he ever got.

No Brady....NO SB for Belichick
No Brady...NO SB for Arians.
No Patrick Mahomes....NO SB for Reid.

I am not saying that a good head coach is not necessary to win a SB. But if I were to dole out the degree of importance, my opinion for SB success is 75% QB...25% coach.

Josh Allen has at least 10 more years to prove that he is one of those QB's and I predict he WILL win multiple Super Bowls with the Bills and McD as HC. And JOSH will be the reason why.