DIFFERENCE IN THE BILL'S AND CHEIFS .....very simple..

[Goobylal]

Not only do I believe that Josh CAN learn from his mistakes but he ABSOLUTELY WILL and is DESTINED to win MULTIPLE SUPER BOWLS WITH THE BUFFALO BILLS!!!

So what you're saying is that Josh can't win a SB at this time and that he is the sole reason the Bills haven't gone to, much less won, a SB yet. Because the Bills' coaching staff is as good as KCs and they've been just as healthy in the playoffs.

[sahlensguy]

So what you're saying is that Josh can't win a SB at this time and that he is the sole reason the Bills haven't gone to, much less won, a SB yet. Because the Bills' coaching staff is as good as KCs and they've been just as healthy in the playoffs.

Wow, man. Talk about putting words in the mouth of someone who disagrees with you.

[notacon]

So what you're saying is that Josh can't win a SB at this time and that he is the sole reason the Bills haven't gone to, much less won, a SB yet. Because the Bills' coaching staff is as good as KCs and they've been just as healthy in the playoffs.

What I am saying is that Josh Allen has NOT shown he can get to, much less win a SB at this time. That is a FACT.

I am NOT saying that he is the "sole reason the Bills haven't gone to, much less won, a SB yet".

What I AM saying is that THIS YEAR, Josh had the opportunity in the palm of his capable hands to step up and win the game vs KC. He has already shown that he can do that....as he did in 2021.


THIS YEAR, Josh FAILED to rise to the occasion, like Mahomes almost always seems to.

The other undeniable fact is that Patrick Mahomes is THE difference between the Bills and KC and why KC has won three SB's.

Mahomes is simply a better QB than Josh, and has been since 2018 when they both began their stating careers in the NFL. I REJECT the idea that coaching staffs have much to do with the the FACT that Mahomes is the best QB in the NFL and has been either the best or second best since 2018.

Every year since 2014, Mike Sando (first with ESPN and then with The Athletic) has brought together between 26 (2014), 35 (2015), 42 (2016) 50 (2017, 2018) 54 (2019), 50 (2020, 2021, 2022 & 2023) "NFL insiders" including current NFL coaches, GM's, coordinators, talent evaluators and QB coaches that are "granted anonymity to share unvarnished evaluations" to place each starting QB into "Tiers".

These evaluations are done PURELY on the traits each QB shows. These are published in the summer or each year so 2023 Tiers was based on 2022 observations, 2022 is based on 2021 etc.

The QB's placed into four or five Tiers (depending on year, most had four Tiers some had five....most years there were not any starting QB's bad enough to be in Tier 5). Each NFL professional votes fore each QB into a Tier.

Quarterbacks were then ranked by average vote and placed into tiers based on vote distribution. They are ranked from #1, #2, etc based on this average.

Each Tier is defined as:

Tier 1 - A Tier 1 quarterback can carry his team each week. The team wins because of him. He expertly handles pure passing situations. He has no real holes in his game.

Tier 2 - A Tier 2 quarterback can carry his team sometimes but not as consistently. He can handle pure passing situations in doses and/or possesses other dimensions that are special enough to elevate him above Tier 3. He has a hole or two in his game.

Tier 3 - A Tier 3 quarterback is a legitimate starter but needs a heavier running game and/or defensive component to win. A lower-volume dropback passing offense suits him best.

Tier 4 - A Tier 4 quarterback could be an unproven player (not enough information for voters to classify) or a veteran who ideally would not start all 17 games.

Tier 5 (when there is any) - A Tier 5 quarterback is best suited as a backup.

There have been only two QB’s that have been in Tier 1 since 2019 (based on 2018 performance….the year that both Mahomes and Allen became starters for each team)

Patrick Mahomes
Aaron Rodgers

Rodgers is the ONLY QB voted into Tier 1 in every of the 10 years this has been done. No, Tom Brady was NOT in Tier 1 every year he was playing while this has been published.

Brady was relegated to Tier 2 in 2020 (based on 2019 season) when he got more Tier 2 votes (28( than Tier 1 (22). So these evaluations are not based on reputation.

The 2023 had Mahomes getting ALL 50 votes placing him in Tier 1.
2022 he got 49 Tier 1 votes and one Tier 2.
2021 he got ALL 50 votes for Tier 1.
2020 he got ALL 50 votes for Tier 1.
2019 he got 48 votes for Tier 1 and 7 votes for Tier 2.

So, in all the FIVE season Patrick Mahomes was the starting QB for KC, he got 247 votes out of a possible 255 for Tier 1. A whopping 96.8%.

Josh Allen on the other hand, took three years to climb into Tier 1 territory.

2023 – JA got 44 Tier 1 votes and 6 Tier 2.
2022 – JA’s first year obtaining Tier 1 status his voting average was 1.22 for Tier 1 (they do not give vote totals every year)
2021 – JA got 20 Tier 1 votes and 30 Tier 2. He was deemed a “Tier 2” that year.
2020 – JA got 4 Tier 2 votes, 40 Tier 3 and 6 Tier 4. He was deemed a “Tier 3” QB.
2019 – JA received 18 Tier 3 votes, 36 Tier 4 and 1 Tier 5. He was deemed a “Tier 4” QB.

So, NFL professionals with all their expertise and experience, have made it crystal clear that Mahomes has been an ELITE TIER 1 QB since the day he became starter.

Josh Allen has steadily improved and now is consider a Tier 1 QB, but STILL behind Mahomes.

THAT REALITY IS WHAT is what I am saying. It is undeniable and indisputable.

[Goobylal]

What I am saying is that Josh Allen has NOT shown he can get to, much less win a SB at this time. That is a FACT.

I am NOT saying that he is the "sole reason the Bills haven't gone to, much less won, a SB yet".

What I AM saying is that THIS YEAR, Josh had the opportunity in the palm of his capable hands to step up and win the game vs KC. He has already shown that he can do that....as he did in 2021.


THIS YEAR, Josh FAILED to rise to the occasion, like Mahomes almost always seems to.

The other undeniable fact is that Patrick Mahomes is THE difference between the Bills and KC and why KC has won three SB's.

Mahomes is simply a better QB than Josh, and has been since 2018 when they both began their stating careers in the NFL. I REJECT the idea that coaching staffs have much to do with the the FACT that Mahomes is the best QB in the NFL and has been either the best or second best since 2018.

Every year since 2014, Mike Sando (first with ESPN and then with The Athletic) has brought together between 26 (2014), 35 (2015), 42 (2016) 50 (2017, 2018) 54 (2019), 50 (2020, 2021, 2022 & 2023) "NFL insiders" including current NFL coaches, GM's, coordinators, talent evaluators and QB coaches that are "granted anonymity to share unvarnished evaluations" to place each starting QB into "Tiers".

These evaluations are done PURELY on the traits each QB shows. These are published in the summer or each year so 2023 Tiers was based on 2022 observations, 2022 is based on 2021 etc.

The QB's placed into four or five Tiers (depending on year, most had four Tiers some had five....most years there were not any starting QB's bad enough to be in Tier 5). Each NFL professional votes fore each QB into a Tier.

Quarterbacks were then ranked by average vote and placed into tiers based on vote distribution. They are ranked from #1, #2, etc based on this average.

Each Tier is defined as:

Tier 1 - A Tier 1 quarterback can carry his team each week. The team wins because of him. He expertly handles pure passing situations. He has no real holes in his game.

Tier 2 - A Tier 2 quarterback can carry his team sometimes but not as consistently. He can handle pure passing situations in doses and/or possesses other dimensions that are special enough to elevate him above Tier 3. He has a hole or two in his game.

Tier 3 - A Tier 3 quarterback is a legitimate starter but needs a heavier running game and/or defensive component to win. A lower-volume dropback passing offense suits him best.

Tier 4 - A Tier 4 quarterback could be an unproven player (not enough information for voters to classify) or a veteran who ideally would not start all 17 games.

Tier 5 (when there is any) - A Tier 5 quarterback is best suited as a backup.

There have been only two QB’s that have been in Tier 1 since 2019 (based on 2018 performance….the year that both Mahomes and Allen became starters for each team)

Patrick Mahomes
Aaron Rodgers

Rodgers is the ONLY QB voted into Tier 1 in every of the 10 years this has been done. No, Tom Brady was NOT in Tier 1 every year he was playing while this has been published.

Brady was relegated to Tier 2 in 2020 (based on 2019 season) when he got more Tier 2 votes (28( than Tier 1 (22). So these evaluations are not based on reputation.

The 2023 had Mahomes getting ALL 50 votes placing him in Tier 1.
2022 he got 49 Tier 1 votes and one Tier 2.
2021 he got ALL 50 votes for Tier 1.
2020 he got ALL 50 votes for Tier 1.
2019 he got 48 votes for Tier 1 and 7 votes for Tier 2.

So, in all the FIVE season Patrick Mahomes was the starting QB for KC, he got 247 votes out of a possible 255 for Tier 1. A whopping 96.8%.

Josh Allen on the other hand, took three years to climb into Tier 1 territory.

2023 – JA got 44 Tier 1 votes and 6 Tier 2.
2022 – JA’s first year obtaining Tier 1 status his voting average was 1.22 for Tier 1 (they do not give vote totals every year)
2021 – JA got 20 Tier 1 votes and 30 Tier 2. He was deemed a “Tier 2” that year.
2020 – JA got 4 Tier 2 votes, 40 Tier 3 and 6 Tier 4. He was deemed a “Tier 3” QB.
2019 – JA received 18 Tier 3 votes, 36 Tier 4 and 1 Tier 5. He was deemed a “Tier 4” QB.

So, NFL professionals with all their expertise and experience, have made it crystal clear that Mahomes has been an ELITE TIER 1 QB since the day he became starter.

Josh Allen has steadily improved and now is consider a Tier 1 QB, but STILL behind Mahomes.

THAT REALITY IS WHAT is what I am saying. It is undeniable and indisputable.

You're so far removed from reality it's not even funny. Mahomes isn't the reason they win SBs. Reid took the Eagles to a SB with a good but not great (like Mahomes or Allen) Donovan McNabb and would have won it if McNabb didn't keep inexplicably throwing long passes that kept getting INT'd. And Reid never had a SB-winning DC like he has in Spagnuolo. And now that Brady and Belicheat are gone, their path is clear.

Again, no one will say that they'd take McD and Brady over Reid and Spags (never mind the STCs). That means they're a better coaching staff and coaching is obviously a huge part of winning.

[notacon]

You're so far removed from reality it's not even funny. Mahomes isn't the reason they win SBs. Reid took the Eagles to a SB with a good but not great (like Mahomes or Allen) Donovan McNabb and would have won it if McNabb didn't keep inexplicably throwing long passes that kept getting INT'd. And Reid never had a SB-winning DC like he has in Spagnuolo. And now that Brady and Belicheat are gone, their path is clear.

Again, no one will say that they'd take McD and Brady over Reid and Spags (never mind the STCs). That means they're a better coaching staff and coaching is obviously a huge part of winning.

So, you are ignoring all the facts, and instead of refuting what I actually write, you put up false straw-man misrepresentations (read: lie) and argue against what I did not say or even think.

Ignore reality if you like. Saying that "Mahomes isn't the reason they win SBs." has got to be one of stupidest, ridiculous things I have heard in quite a while.

YOU are the one that is "so far removed from reality it's not even funny.". Hope you enjoy yourself in La-La Fantasy Land.

[Goobylal]

So, you are ignoring all the facts, and instead of refuting what I actually write, you put up false straw-man misrepresentations (read: lie) and argue against what I did not say or even think.

Ignore reality if you like. Saying that "Mahomes isn't the reason they win SBs." has got to be one of stupidest, ridiculous things I have heard in quite a while.

YOU are the one that is "so far removed from reality it's not even funny.". Hope you enjoy yourself in La-La Fantasy Land.

No I've pretty much nailed that you are (conveniently) ignoring the large discrepancy in coaching talent and experience between the two teams, and in doing so putting all the blame on Josh and all the success on Mahomes. Again the Bills have barely lost to the Chefs in the playoffs while they've beaten them in the regular season, since 2020.

[notacon]

No I've pretty much nailed that you are (conveniently) ignoring the large discrepancy in coaching talent and experience between the two teams, and in doing so putting all the blame on Josh and all the success on Mahomes. Again the Bills have barely lost to the Chefs in the playoffs while they've beaten them in the regular season, since 2020.

I almost missed this….

“Reid took the Eagles to a SB with a good but not great (like Mahomes or Allen) Donovan McNabb and would have won it if McNabb didn't keep inexplicably throwing long passes that kept getting INT'd.”

Uhhhhh…..the “…keep inexplicably throwing long passes that kept getting INT'd” is describing much of Josh Allen’s negative's, not McNabb’s.

The fact is that both McNabb and Alex Smith threw a LOT less INT’s than Josh.

Josh Allen:

Career INT% - 2.5%
# of season with 10+ INT – 5
Percentage of seasons with 10+ INT’s – 83.3%
# of season with less than 10 INT’s – 1 – 2019 when he had nine.
Percentage of seasons with Less than 10 INT’s – 16.6%
Highest number of INT’s in one season – 18 – THIS YEAR, 2023

Donovan McNabb:

Career INT% - 2.2%
# of season with 10+ INT – 6
Percentage of seasons with 10+ INT’s – 46.1%
# of season with less than 10 INT’s – 7
Percentage of seasons with Less than 10 INT’s – 53.8%
Highest number of INT’s in one season – 15

Alex Smith:
Career INT% - 2.1%
# of season with 10+ INT – 4
Percentage of seasons with 10+ INT’s – 28.5%%
# of season with less than 10 INT’s – TEN - ONE in the last TEN seasons of his career
Percentage of seasons with Less than 10 INT’s – 71.4%
Highest number of INT’s in one season – 16

You are bolstering my premise that Andy Reid, although he is a great HC, did not see Super Bowl success until he had Patrick Mahomes. An undeniable FACT.

McNabb was a “GREAT” QB, no matter how mcuh you want to crap on him.

BTW…I am NOT “putting all the blame on Josh and all the success on Mahomes”

Why do you feel the need to continually misrepresent (read:lie) what I write????

What I AM saying is that Josh Allen does not rise to the occasion at the most critical times in the most critical games nearly as much as Mahomes has ABSOLUTELY DONE. Over and over and over and over again.

That REALITY was particularly evident in the Bills last loss.

That is NOT “putting all the blame of Josh” for the loss…simply that it is a FACT that he did NOT rise to the occasion and win the game like Mahomes has done time and time and time again.

This is a simple concept. The facts and reality support my premise.

Patrick Mahomes has been a better QB than Josh Allen every year since he became starter. NFL professionals agree.

He is ONE of THE main reasons (I opine the most important factor, but not the "only" (declaring absolutes are dumb)) Reid and KC has seen instant higher-level success (than any other team Reid has coached) and an oversized most critical reason why KC has been in the AFCC game EVERY ****ING YEAR MAHOMES HAS BEEN QB….SIX years in a row…ALL at home.

Winning FOUR of those. And Wining THREE Super Bowls.

[Goobylal]

I almost missed this….

“Reid took the Eagles to a SB with a good but not great (like Mahomes or Allen) Donovan McNabb and would have won it if McNabb didn't keep inexplicably throwing long passes that kept getting INT'd.”

Uhhhhh…..the “…keep inexplicably throwing long passes that kept getting INT'd” is describing much of Josh Allen’s negative's, not McNabb’s.

The fact is that both McNabb and Alex Smith threw a LOT less INT’s than Josh.

Josh Allen:

Career INT% - 2.5%
# of season with 10+ INT – 5
Percentage of seasons with 10+ INT’s – 83.3%
# of season with less than 10 INT’s – 1 – 2019 when he had nine.
Percentage of seasons with Less than 10 INT’s – 16.6%
Highest number of INT’s in one season – 18 – THIS YEAR, 2023

Donovan McNabb:

Career INT% - 2.2%
# of season with 10+ INT – 6
Percentage of seasons with 10+ INT’s – 46.1%
# of season with less than 10 INT’s – 7
Percentage of seasons with Less than 10 INT’s – 53.8%
Highest number of INT’s in one season – 15

Alex Smith:
Career INT% - 2.1%
# of season with 10+ INT – 4
Percentage of seasons with 10+ INT’s – 28.5%%
# of season with less than 10 INT’s – TEN - ONE in the last TEN seasons of his career
Percentage of seasons with Less than 10 INT’s – 71.4%
Highest number of INT’s in one season – 16

You are bolstering my premise that Andy Reid, although he is a great HC, did not see Super Bowl success until he had Patrick Mahomes. An undeniable FACT.

McNabb was a “GREAT” QB, no matter how mcuh you want to crap on him.

BTW…I am NOT “putting all the blame on Josh and all the success on Mahomes”

Why do you feel the need to continually misrepresent (read:lie) what I write????

What I AM saying is that Josh Allen does not rise to the occasion at the most critical times in the most critical games nearly as much as Mahomes has ABSOLUTELY DONE. Over and over and over and over again.

That REALITY was particularly evident in the Bills last loss.

That is NOT “putting all the blame of Josh” for the loss…simply that it is a FACT that he did NOT rise to the occasion and win the game like Mahomes has done time and time and time again.

This is a simple concept. The facts and reality support my premise.

Patrick Mahomes has been a better QB than Josh Allen every year since he became starter. NFL professionals agree.

He is ONE of THE main reasons (I opine the most important factor, but not the "only" (declaring absolutes are dumb)) Reid and KC has seen instant higher-level success (than any other team Reid has coached) and an oversized most critical reason why KC has been in the AFCC game EVERY ****ING YEAR MAHOMES HAS BEEN QB….SIX years in a row…ALL at home.

Winning FOUR of those. And Wining THREE Super Bowls.

The facts and reality are that superior coaching will almost always win when the talent level is equal. Not that it was equal in that game seeing as how the Bills' defense was decimated in the back 7.

Did you think that Joe Brady, a guy who was an OC for just 2 seasons in the NFL and who took over someone else's offense mid-season was going to be able to compete with a guy who has been a DC for decades and shut down the greatest offense in NFL history in the SB? Did you think that the fake punt was a smart coaching decision?

And Josh rose to the occasion in 2021. Only to see bad coaching and defensive play lose it for him. See a trend? So spare me.

[notacon]

The facts and reality are that superior coaching will almost always win when the talent level is equal. Not that it was equal in that game seeing as how the Bills' defense was decimated in the back 7.

Did you think that Joe Brady, a guy who was an OC for just 2 seasons in the NFL and who took over someone else's offense mid-season was going to be able to compete with a guy who has been a DC for decades and shut down the greatest offense in NFL history in the SB? Did you think that the fake punt was a smart coaching decision?

And Josh rose to the occasion in 2021. Only to see bad coaching and defensive play lose it for him. See a trend? So spare me.

Actually, you are offering up the reason why I think that McD did a fantastic coaching job (equal to Reid's....KC had one of the lowest number of games lost to starters, much, MUCH less than the Bills and the Bills still were the higher seed), and DESPITE THE FACT that "Bills' defense was decimated in the back 7" they were in PRIME POSITION to WIN THAT GAME.

Earlier in this thread you whined that "And the Bills for all their "ball control" offense scored just 7 points in the 2nd half."....uhhhhh.....KC only scored 7 points less...14.

BUT, the Bills were in a PERFECT SITUATION to equal KC's 2nd half scoring and WIN THE ****ING GAME, IF Josh made better decisions. It was LESS of KC's defense that prevented the Bills to do so, over JOSH'S BAD DECISIONS after the 2 min mark, and poor game awareness.


The FACT is that the Bills and KC DO have "talent level that is equal" EXCEPT at QB.

The more you post, the more you bolster my arguments. Spare me me your blind spot.

[notacon]

BTW...in 2021. After the OT win vs the Bills (that the rules were so unfair that it caused a CHANGE to playoff rules) KC LOST to Cincy in the AFCC game at home.

The lost because of VERY RARE TERRIBLE decision making by Mahomes both at the end of the first half and especially in OT, when he threw three AWFUL passes in a row....the last one a extremely POOR boneheaded INT that allowed Cincy to win and go to the SB.

Was that Reid's fault or Mahomes????

[notacon]

It's been fun bantering with you Gooby, but we are both dug into our positions and the evidence, facts and plain common sense favor mine (which is why I embraced it in the first place) your continuing misrepresentation of what I have actually written which describes the basis my position is annoying and tiresome.

Especially the dishonest canard that I am "blaming" Josh Allen for the latest loss and why the Bills have not gotten to a Super Bowl during his young career.

I am not "blaming" Josh Allen as much as I am accurately observing that he has failed to rise to the level (and frequency) of Mahomes in clutch play at the most critical times. Does not mean that he won't in the future....in fact I not only believe that Josh will do so, but he will bring more than one Lombardi to Buffalo once he learns the lessons that Kurt Warner so aptly observed.

Since you brought up INT's in your lame effort to downplay Donovan McNabb's stellar career, here is one last stat that I'll leave you with.

Career INT % from BEST to WORST for the four QB's that have been mentioned....


1. Patrick Mahomes - 1.8%
2. Alex Smith - 2.1%
3. Donovan McNabb - 2.2%
4. Josh Allen - 2.5%

With that final fact that supports my arguments, I rest my case.