So where do we stand after today's bloodletting?

[notacon]

Tired of endless arguments, entirely agree with where Gooby is coming from. 7 years in this jusnt happy happy joy joy and it needs a critical look, which doesn't make you less a fan.

Another poster that feels the need to misrepresent what I actually write.

No, I did not say that Gooby is "less a fan.".

I HAVE said that about Opi's constant sourpuss negativity and clear anti-Bills bias.

[Goobylal]

So, when players or coaches say something you don't like, the reaction form a LOT of posters is "they're just saying that'.

Whatever.

The fact is that Josh had the ball in his hands and he ultimately decides where it goes. I suspect with the encouragement for McD to 'let Josh be Josh', we will never know exactly who was not thinking about milking the clock at that point. We do not know what play was called.


Besides the point that it is IRREVERENT "milking the clock wasn't what they were thinking at that point"....the OBVIUS smart decison (no mater what play was called) was to THROW TO THE WIDE OPEN GUY TO GET THE FIRTS DOWN. That is simple, plain reality.

In any event, great QB's affect what the "thinking" is at any given moment. Kurt is spot on when he said that


“Sometimes,” Warner said, “you talk yourself into a play and say, ‘I’m gonna make this play, and this is the throw that’ll send us to the championship game,’ instead of saying, ‘I’m gonna let the defense dictate where I throw the ball.’ As a quarterback, you have to have the ability to balance those things.”

I'll listen to Kurt Warner who's been there. I'll believe my own eyes, that when that play happened, I remember (yelling to the TV) "DON'T THROW THE BALL TO THE END ZONE"!!!

Until Josh learns those lessons that Kurt plainly expressed, the Bills have less a chance to win a SB than they should. When he does, the chances increase.

Anyway, your repeated misrepresentation of what I (and others) have written should how vapid your observations are. Strawmen baloney reveals the lack of reason. I'm not surprised from our history of political discussions. That's the way people on your side "debate'...they can't engage in good faith arguments based on the merits, so they construct strawman garbage

Again as Josh said, they weren't trying to milk the clock and were trying to get the TD when the opportunity presented itself, which was the throw to Shakir, who was open. Again Dawkins was pushed-into Josh by Jones which altered the throw, which goes back to the "other players made mistakes as well" thing I was talking about. And the thing about that is that if it affected the throw to Shakir, it would also have done the same to a throw to Diggs. But that's the great thing about Monday morning quarterbacking: you can never be wrong.

[notacon]

Not only that, but Josh didn't lead the league in INTs, fumbles/lost or total turnovers.

Funny (but not surprising) you present constipated observation that is rather meaningless without full context. It's lame cherry picking.

Yes, it is true that "Josh didn't lead the league in INTs, fumbles/lost or total turnovers."...but upon further review, this is rather meaningless.

Josh was tied for #4 in fumbles lost with 4. The most of 7 was held by Lawrence, Ridder, Zach Wilson and Joshua Dobbs. Big whoop.

But the real negative stats are these....

Josh was #2 in INT's and #2 in total turnovers, behind ONLY Sam Howell.

Yep....Sam (probable bust) Howell led the NFL last year with 21 INTS....and Josh was #2 with 18.

Sam led the NFL in total turnovers with 25....Josh was #2 with 22.

If you want to celebrate Josh Allen not leading the league in INTs and Total Turnovers because the ONE guy ahead of him was one of the crappiest QB's in the league...well...that's pretty silly.

Homerism gone wild.

[notacon]

Again as Josh said, they weren't trying to milk the clock and were trying to get the TD when the opportunity presented itself, which was the throw to Shakir, who was open. Again Dawkins was pushed-into Josh by Jones which altered the throw, which goes back to the "other players made mistakes as well" thing I was talking about. And the thing about that is that if it affected the throw to Shakir, it would also have done the same to a throw to Diggs. But that's the great thing about Monday morning quarterbacking: you can never be wrong.

We are going to agree to disagree on this too.

You keep those blinders one. I value what Kurt Warner said and my own eyes.

BTW...Shakir was NOT "open" when Josh threw the ball. I even gave you a picture that proves it. ****...Shakir was DOUBLE TEAMED.

Diggs WAS WIDE open....no defender within 6 to 7 yards from him. Watch the film. I have over two dozens times. The film does not lie. Josh could have made a much better decision. Unfortunately he was infected with as Kurt explains (his being there) “Sometimes,” Warner said, “you talk yourself into a play and say, ‘I’m gonna make this play, and this is the throw that’ll send us to the championship game,’ instead of saying, ‘I’m gonna let the defense dictate where I throw the ball.’

Additionally, what logic, common sense and the reality of the game situation tells anyone with a shred of intellectual honesty, getting that TD would not even come close to ensuring a win.

You give Mahomes close to 2 min and two time outs and a chance to win a big playoff game, you'd be a fool to think he's not going to get it done.

[Goobylal]

Funny (but not surprising) you present constipated observation that is rather meaningless without full context. It's lame cherry picking.

Yes, it is true that "Josh didn't lead the league in INTs, fumbles/lost or total turnovers."...but upon further review, this is rather meaningless.

Josh was tied for #4 in fumbles lost with 4. The most of 7 was held by Lawrence, Ridder, Zach Wilson and Joshua Dobbs. Big whoop.

But the real negative stats are these....

Josh was #2 in INT's and #2 in total turnovers, behind ONLY Sam Howell.

Yep....Sam (probable bust) Howell led the NFL last year with 21 INTS....and Josh was #2 with 18.

Sam led the NFL in total turnovers with 25....Josh was #2 with 22.

If you want to celebrate Josh Allen not leading the league in INTs and Total Turnovers because the ONE guy ahead of him was one of the crappiest QB's in the league...well...that's pretty silly.

Homerism gone wild.

Talk about meaningless and full context. You're laughably hiding behind "#2..." when your boyfriend Mahomes had 17. That's just 5 more but in reality 4 (extrapolating) since Mahomes sat out the last game of the season.

It's even more meaningless when you see that he had 17 more TDs than Mahomes did and, unlike with turnovers, TDs are definite scoring plays. Talk about "Big whoop."

[Goobylal]

We are going to agree to disagree on this too.

You keep those blinders one. I value what Kurt Warner said and my own eyes.

BTW...Shakir was NOT "open" when Josh threw the ball. I even gave you a picture that proves it. ****...Shakir was DOUBLE TEAMED.

Diggs WAS WIDE open....no defender within 6 to 7 yards from him. Watch the film. I have over two dozens times. The film does not lie. Josh could have made a much better decision. Unfortunately he was infected with as Kurt explains (his being there) “Sometimes,” Warner said, “you talk yourself into a play and say, ‘I’m gonna make this play, and this is the throw that’ll send us to the championship game,’ instead of saying, ‘I’m gonna let the defense dictate where I throw the ball.’

Additionally, what logic, common sense and the reality of the game situation tells anyone with a shred of intellectual honesty, getting that TD would not even come close to ensuring a win.

You give Mahomes close to 2 min and two time outs and a chance to win a big playoff game, you'd be a fool to think he's not going to get it done.

The picture you provided showed his at around the 10-yard line. He got separation and was open in the endzone. Jones hit Josh and threw his pass off.

But again this goes back to coaching and the coaching disparity that exists. And why McD is on the hot seat this year.

[notacon]

The picture you provided showed his at around the 10-yard line. He got separation and was open in the endzone. Jones hit Josh and threw his pass off.

But again this goes back to coaching and the coaching disparity that exists. And why McD is on the hot seat this year.

The picture I provided was a millisecond before Josh let the ball go. Shakir was NOT open.....Diggs was....WIDE OPEN, no defender within 6 or 7 yards (I can supply a pic of the millisecond after Josh let the ball go....the image is identical) ....probably an easy critical first down. To blame a coach for every bad decision (or less than optimal) of a QB is lame to the nth degree.

It's irreverent that "Jones hit Josh and threw his pass off." he should have never even threw it...as Kurt said (which you inexplicably refuse to hear)...

"you talk yourself into a play and say, ‘I’m gonna make this play, and this is the throw that’ll send us to the championship game,’ instead of saying, ‘I’m gonna let the defense dictate where I throw the ball.’

The superstar, franchise QB's mindset is ALL that matters. HE makes the decisions in the heat of battle.

It's extremely interesting that you already expressed EXACTLY what I have been saying (except you bungle the outcome...I DID NOT SAY that Diggs could of or should have scored if Josh made the smart throw to him to get a FIRST DOWN, which would have been smart situational football) when you wrote this...

Right. Let's say Diggs scores on that play (not even close to a sure thing). That leaves the Chefs with ~1:50 and 2 TOs. You remember what happened in 2021 with 13 seconds and 2 TOs, right?

THAT'S ESSENTIALLY MY POINT. Thank you for agreeing with me.

Anyway, we are going to have to agree to disagree on a couple of issues here. My eyes are wide open...I do not believe yours are.

No, McD is not anywhere close to the "hot seat" (with Terry Pegula....the ONLY opinion that means anything besides hot air) this year. The chances of him getting fired is practicality nil baring a total melt down of a 5-12 season even with Josh healthy. I'm not sure if even missing the playoffs (depending on how they miss it) will necessarily shake Pegula's confidence in his HC.

That (total melt down of a 5-12 season) is NOT going to happen.

Instead of beating each other up on what we DO NOT agree on, why not concentrate on what we CAN agree on these points.

We agree that Opi's over-the-top absurd predictions of DOOM AND GLOOM (that he pimps seemingly every year) are rather hyperbolic silliness. Your posts here, here, here, here, here, here, here, and here, that I wholeheartedly agree with and thanked.

We also agree that Josh Allen is a special, once (or twice with the reality of Mahomes) in a generation QB, that is a superstar, elite franchise QB, who is absolutely one of only a handful of Tier One QB's in the NFL today.


I suspect we agree that there is NO OTHER QB we want for our team (including Mahomes...yes, I believe than Mahomes is a slightly better QB than Josh (so far in their careers), but like you, I believe that Josh has not reached his ceiling YET.

Which produces an enormous confidence that the Bills, as long as he is behind center and healthy, will be a Super Bowl contender.


I have ZERO doubt.


Today serendipity had Cody Benjamin of CBS Sports publish "Regrading every first-round QB pick of the last 15 years"

The grades are...

1. Home run: A bona fide star with championship-caliber talent, production and/or potential
2. Solid result: A good, maybe even great, QB who's still got sizable hurdles to clear
3. Mixed result: A QB who flashed but, for whatever reason, did not or is not panning out
4. Incomplete: A QB who's yet to fully prove himself
5. Miss: A clear flop as a short- and/or long-term starter

...snip...

Final tally
Over the last 15 years, there have been 46 QBs selected in the first round. Here's the final tally:

Grade	Total	Percent
Home run	7	15%
Solid result	3	6%
Mixed result	9	19%
Incomplete	4	8%
Miss	23	50%

Josh Allen is one of only SEVEN "home runs" in the past FIFTEEN YEARS. Two of those (Newton and Luck) are not in the NFL anymore.

Only FIVE of the 46 QB's drafted in the first round the past 15 years are considered a "Home Run...A bona fide star with championship-caliber talent, production and/or potential"

I would rank the golden five (today) like this...


1. Patrick Mahomes
2. Josh Allen
3. Joe Burrow
4. Lamar Jackson
5. Matthew Stafford


The criteria can even include ALL the active QB's today and there might be a sixth added to that list...Rodgers. (we really don't know if he's still got it or not)
That undeniable reality is why Opi's (and some others) THE SKY IS FALLING cynicism is wrongheaded as it is silly.

We can agree on that for sure!

[notacon]

BTW...this is what Cody wrote about the 2018 draft class where he accurately regraded...

Baker Mayfield - Mixed result
Sam Darnold - Miss
Josh Allen - Home Run
Josh Rosen - Miss
Lamar Jackson - Home Run

Mayfield reintroduced the Browns to quarterback moxie and reinvented himself as a figurehead for a run-first offense, but ultimately left after four battered and turnover-prone seasons, resurfacing as a decent starter with the Buccaneers in 2023. Darnold endured a steeper dip into skittish tendencies for a porous Jets team. Allen, meanwhile, has gone the opposite direction, starting as a wayward gunslinger and evolving into a big-armed, big-bodied MVP type, though his style is inherently riskier than most. Rosen never stood a chance, flopping as a lean, limited pocket passer before Arizona dumped him after a single season. Jackson is one of the NFL's defining talents; he's had durability questions, but his world-class speed and arm zip has kept Baltimore afloat, even as the team struggled to surround him with steady pass catchers.

Pretty sound, fair assessment.