PSLs… Who is buying?

[notacon]

Pegula hasn't made anything on the team. He paid 1.4 billion in sep 2014....cash. 119 million a year would take 11 years and 7 months to recover initial investment...that would be in 2026.

I still feel bad for season ticket holders.

You obviously don't understand what "making money" or "return on investment" means. Sorry, but operating profit is only one part of "making money" with a NFL team. The idea that "119 million a year would take 11 years and 7 months to recover initial investment" is incorrect and would only be justified if the VALUE of the asset DID NOT INCREASE ONE PENNY during that time.

Pegula has ALREADY made a LOT on the team and recouped his original investment some time ago when the value of the team topped $2.8B....double the $1.4B he paid for it.

The VALUE of that team he bought with $1.4 Billion has already produced a $2.3 BILLION "profit" (or "return") of his original investment....with the value of the team increasing from $1.4B to $3.7B (some have the value pegged even higher)....that's is about a 10% rate of return, NOT EVEN CONSIDERING the yearly operating profit.

If one assumes a $100M operating profit per year for 10 years that pushes the rate of return up to 13%. While the increases in value for the team continues to rise ever higher.

Mr Pegula "recovered his initial investment" some time ago, as both increase in value (if he sold the team) and operating profit piles up and shows no end in sight (especially considering it's GUARANTEED income stream (that is ever increasing via TV contacts) and GUARANTEED LIMITED labor cost (due to CBA that limits payroll to per-determined percentage of sales....I know of no other business with this model)


As a small business owner in the past I would have LOVED to have this type of cushy, RISK FREE business model.

In FACT, the value of the Bills is expected to rise ANOTHER $2.3 BILLION in just four years, in 2028 to a whopping $6 BILLION!!!

I have no problem with Pegula raking in as much money as he can, nor do I have any issue with NFL teams ever increasing value. They deserve it for developing such a wildly popular entertainment venture that regularly enjoys about 95 of the top 100 rated TV programs every year.

BUT, he is getting hundreds of million in public tax money already.....again, I don't have a serious issue with that since the Bills and a gem of a stadium reflects and promotes the Buffalo area positively and gives the people of WNY, NYS and fans all across the nation and world something to enjoy and support.

BUT, basically CRAPPING on the loyal fans who have put up with mostly a **** product for the majority of the teams 64 year existence, who support this team no mater WHAT....and disrespecting them squeezing ANOTHER $200 MILLION out of them (because he can) when he is reaping MASSIVE RICHES (on top of the already obscene wealth) seems a bit repulsively repugnant and selfish to the nth degree.

[sukie]

It’s not a rate of return until sold. It’s unrealized gain when you speak of value.

[Mace]

You obviously don't understand what "making money" or "return on investment" means. Sorry, but operating profit is only one part of "making money" with a NFL team. The idea that "119 million a year would take 11 years and 7 months to recover initial investment" is incorrect and would only be justified if the VALUE of the asset DID NOT INCREASE ONE PENNY during that time.

Pegula has ALREADY made a LOT on the team and recouped his original investment some time ago when the value of the team topped $2.8B....double the $1.4B he paid for it.

The VALUE of that team he bought with $1.4 Billion has already produced a $2.3 BILLION "profit" (or "return") of his original investment....with the value of the team increasing from $1.4B to $3.7B (some have the value pegged even higher)....that's is about a 10% rate of return, NOT EVEN CONSIDERING the yearly operating profit.

If one assumes a $100M operating profit per year for 10 years that pushes the rate of return up to 13%. While the increases in value for the team continues to rise ever higher.

Mr Pegula "recovered his initial investment" some time ago, as both increase in value (if he sold the team) and operating profit piles up and shows no end in sight (especially considering it's GUARANTEED income stream (that is ever increasing via TV contacts) and GUARANTEED LIMITED labor cost (due to CBA that limits payroll to per-determined percentage of sales....I know of no other business with this model)


As a small business owner in the past I would have LOVED to have this type of cushy, RISK FREE business model.

In FACT, the value of the Bills is expected to rise ANOTHER $2.3 BILLION in just four years, in 2028 to a whopping $6 BILLION!!!

I have no problem with Pegula raking in as much money as he can, nor do I have any issue with NFL teams ever increasing value. They deserve it for developing such a wildly popular entertainment venture that regularly enjoys about 95 of the top 100 rated TV programs every year.

BUT, he is getting hundreds of million in public tax money already.....again, I don't have a serious issue with that since the Bills and a gem of a stadium reflects and promotes the Buffalo area positively and gives the people of WNY, NYS and fans all across the nation and world something to enjoy and support.

BUT, basically CRAPPING on the loyal fans who have put up with mostly a **** product for the majority of the teams 64 year existence, who support this team no mater WHAT....and disrespecting them squeezing ANOTHER $200 MILLION out of them (because he can) when he is reaping MASSIVE RICHES (on top of the already obscene wealth) seems a bit repulsively repugnant and selfish to the nth degree.

You are incorrect despite another wall of text. That's all I feel I have to say because you didn't even comprehend that the value of the franchise is not realized until sold and don,t comprehend that paying money means you pay it back before realizing profit on basic expenditure.

This is basic accounting and I still feel bad for season ticketholders.

You also still don't grasp the public money by terms is repaid by the end of agreement. It"s not free public money, it's a long term loan. Try to look past the end of your nose.

[TheConsigliere]

Pegula hasn't made anything on the team. He paid 1.4 billion in sep 2014....cash. 119 million a year would take 11 years and 7 months to recover initial investment...that would be in 2026.

I still feel bad for season ticket holders.

Good Evening Mr. Mace:

You are aware that American tax rules enable the Owner of a NFL franchise to write off the purchase price of the acquired NFL team over 10 years as Goodwill?

In other words, Terry Pegula wrote off $140M per year for the past 9 years against business profit he made elsewhere.

I feel it has been a pretty good deal for this Mother Fracter.

[Clumpy]

My wife and I are not likely to renew. We have 2 seats in Sec 230 and it's looking like 15-20K per seat PSL plus tickets at around 7.5K per seat (est.) and parking. We live a little over 2 miles from the stadium so we could just walk but that's a limited savings. If we win Mega Millions or Powerball - full speed ahead

[notacon]

You are incorrect despite another wall of text. That's all I feel I have to say because you didn't even comprehend that the value of the franchise is not realized until sold and don,t comprehend that paying money means you pay it back before realizing profit on basic expenditure.

This is basic accounting and I still feel bad for season ticketholders.

You also still don't grasp the public money by terms is repaid by the end of agreement. It"s not free public money, it's a long term loan. Try to look past the end of your nose.

There is NOTHING "incorrect" in my post. Nothing.

Of course the "value of the franchise is not realized until sold" but that IS THE ONLY POINT OF HOW TO CALCULATE "return on investment". That does not belie the FACT that Pegula's are set to make BILLIONS and BILLIONS from the value of the team that is increased every year.

Obviously, you have never owned a business nor ever had management profit/loss responsibility. I have. In several businesses.


I already said..."I have no problem with Pegula raking in as much money as he can, nor do I have any issue with NFL teams ever increasing value. They deserve it for developing such a wildly popular entertainment venture that regularly enjoys about 95 of the top 100 rated TV programs every year."

Like many posters that cannot refute my posts on the merits you feel the need to misrepresent what I wrote. I NEVER SAID that Pegula got "free public money".


I stated a FACT...and even expressed support for that tax payer dollars when I wrote...."BUT, he is getting hundreds of million in public tax money already.....again, I don't have a serious issue with that since the Bills and a gem of a stadium reflects and promotes the Buffalo area positively and gives the people of WNY, NYS and fans all across the nation and world something to enjoy and support."

Pegula IS, in FACT, getting hundreds of millions in public tax money".

Of course, though the lease, the public money eventually gets kinda, sorta paid back (without every detail of that lease on who pays what and when, it's still a substantial benefit to the Bills, for example the "state is on the hook for $100 million over 15 years to cover stadium maintenance and repairs....the country and the state authority created to oversee the stadium would be obligated to kick in $180 million over the 30-year lease for capital improvement") . Which is one of the reasons I do not have any problem with public money going into a project like this.

There is a LOT of opposition for any public money going into projects like this for billionaires playpens Especially when some stadium projects, like LA SoFi and NJ's MetLife stadiums have been built entirely with private money.


Anyway, I'm not one of them.

BUT, I also think that rich as **** billionaires like Mr. Pegula, who has a CASH MAKING MACHINE in the Bills, with the value of the team increasing exponentially seems a little greedy to, as I said already, basically CRAPPING on the loyal fans by squeezing them for every ****ing penny he can.


It is YOU that should "try to look past the end of your nose". If you truly "feel bad for season ticketholders." you would not whine about what I wrote.

[sukie]

The state owns the stadium. Of course they need to maintain it. Does Pegula need to pay to have the stadium cleaned when Taylor Swift leaves town?

[Historian]

You are incorrect despite another wall of text.

[jamze132]

When I read these posts in these forums I picture a bunch of folks sitting at the bar having a conversation and drinks. Not everything someone says has to be the length of an essay.

Sometimes someone says some stupid **** and you just want to slap them. Other times you want to pat em on the back and buy em a round. I dunno, this is how I read these forums.

[notacon]

When I read these posts in these forums I picture a bunch of folks sitting at the bar having a conversation and drinks. Not everything someone says has to be the length of an essay.

Sometimes someone says some stupid **** and you just want to slap them. Other times you want to pat em on the back and buy em a round. I dunno, this is how I read these forums.

You just can't stand that I'm right and that it takes a few more words than a bumper sticker (which is all you seem to be able to understand or sit through...like a toddler) to fully explain complex issues with intelligent detail, logic, facts and thoroughness.


I suspect you shunned reading books assigned in high school and instead relied on Cliff notes to learn and help write a book report.

[jamze132]

You just can't stand that I'm right and that it takes a few more words than a bumper sticker (which is all you seem to be able to understand or sit through...like a toddler) to fully explain complex issues with intelligent detail, logic, facts and thoroughness.


I suspect you shunned reading books assigned in high school and instead relied on Cliff notes to learn and help write a book report.

It’s a Bills “message” board, not an essay board. If you can’t say what you have to in a couple of sentences, you’re wasting everyone’s time. But it’s not like anyone actually reads your drivel anyways.

And yeah I used Cliff notes because I was too busy with girls and sports, nerd.

[notacon]

It’s a Bills “message” board, not an essay board. If you can’t say what you have to in a couple of sentences, you’re wasting everyone’s time. But it’s not like anyone actually reads your drivel anyways.

And yeah I used Cliff notes because I was too busy with girls and sports, nerd.

There you go trying to DICTATE how everyone should post on this board!!! Who made you the posting Nazi???


What's "wasting everyone's time" is your constant childish whining and bellyaching...NOT about the substance of the subject at hand, nor the substance of what I write, but your ludicrous and shrill attempt for YOU to control the tone...or how many words it takes to write an intelligent, detailed post.

Of course you were a Cliff notes guy. I suspect NOT because you were "too busy with girls and sports" but more because you simply do not have the intellectual chops or desire to learn and advance knowledge to comprehend anything longer than a "couple of sentences".

That defect shows up in your posts. THAT is where the "drivel" is.

Hey, if you do not have anything more than the patience of a toddler, nor (apparently) the intelligence of a high school drop out, you don't have to read my posts. Hell, there is even a "ignore" function that you can enable at any time.

[sukie]

That’s correct. No one should dictate how others post OR how much real estate one should have to read through in any given post.

[Woodman]

Bills criticized for high costs, lack of transparency on PSL prices- "It's wrong" - NBC Sports

Erie County Executive Mark Poloncarz blasted the Bills for both the high prices and for a lack of transparency. He said New York Governor Kathy Hochul — who has been praised by the NFL and the Bills for her leadership in getting the taxpayer funding necessary to get the stadium built — agrees with him.

“I actually let representatives of the Bills and Legends – which is the sub-agent that’s actually selling the PSLs – know, in no unconditional terms, that I found it, first off, very upsetting that they would not announce what the PSL prices were for all the seats,” Poloncarz said, via WIVB. “I’ve talked to the Governor about this, she’s very concerned as well. Whatever they sell it at, they have a right to do that, but they should at least publicize what the planned PSLs are for all of the seats. So if someone who wants to still attend games but can’t afford a $25,000 PSL, but maybe could afford a $5,000 PSL, could buy those tickets. But right now, they have no idea. And it’s wrong.”

The Bills have more than 60,000 season ticket holders and are banking on most of them paying up — and banking on those who can’t pay up to be replaced by plenty of other fans waiting in line.

[sukie]

Wait till the parking lot PPLs are released.

[Skooby]

Wait till the parking lot PPLs are released.

Hammer’s lot is going to get hammered with fees, it’s going to be a fortune to park there.

[Historian]

I'm surprised they haven't made him an offer for the property yet.

[YardRat]

Good Evening Mr. Mace:

You are aware that American tax rules enable the Owner of a NFL franchise to write off the purchase price of the acquired NFL team over 10 years as Goodwill?

In other words, Terry Pegula wrote off $140M per year for the past 9 years against business profit he made elsewhere.

I feel it has been a pretty good deal for this Mother Fracter.

That's not how the amortization of the purchase price of a sports team or corporate taxation works.

[jamze132]

There you go trying to DICTATE how everyone should post on this board!!! Who made you the posting Nazi???


What's "wasting everyone's time" is your constant childish whining and bellyaching...NOT about the substance of the subject at hand, nor the substance of what I write, but your ludicrous and shrill attempt for YOU to control the tone...or how many words it takes to write an intelligent, detailed post.

Of course you were a Cliff notes guy. I suspect NOT because you were "too busy with girls and sports" but more because you simply do not have the intellectual chops or desire to learn and advance knowledge to comprehend anything longer than a "couple of sentences".

That defect shows up in your posts. THAT is where the "drivel" is.

Hey, if you do not have anything more than the patience of a toddler, nor (apparently) the intelligence of a high school drop out, you don't have to read my posts. Hell, there is even a "ignore" function that you can enable at any time.

So as I was saying…there we are sitting around the bar… ouch, nitty fell off his stool!

[TheConsigliere]

That's not how the amortization of the purchase price of a sports team or corporate taxation works.

NFL has a special tax treatment.

Look it up.