It’s narrow-minded to say Bills haven’t succeeded without a Super Bowl

[Forward_Lateral]

Re: It’s narrow-minded to say Bills haven’t succeeded without a Super Bowl

No he didn't.

His POS car is still trying to get to the same destination. Will he be surprised when it breaks down? No. But he was still trying to get to the destination.

No.

If you were actually SERIOUS about getting to your destination, you'd buy a better car that gives you a high probability of making it to the destination without breaking down along the way.

You don't take a cheap piece of junk on a cross country road trip and actually expect to make it, unless you are a complete imbecile.

[Forward_Lateral]

Re: It’s narrow-minded to say Bills haven’t succeeded without a Super Bowl

Again.... Was Ralph's top priority winning it? Not particularly. His top interest was profits. But... he would have said "you should go out and win with these players" even on the cheap.

Were they handcuffed by his cheapness? Yes. Did they still try to win the SB despite it? Yes. Did they have any real hope? No. But the Coaches, Players and fans were all still trying.

It is the INHERENT goal of the NFL to win the SB.

They were trying to win GAMES. Not a superbowl. They were week to week teams, and they were coached that way. The roster was not built to win a superbowl at any point in time during that era.

I don't even know how I'm arguing this with anybody who lived through the drought.

[OpIv37]

Re: It’s narrow-minded to say Bills haven’t succeeded without a Super Bowl

How many dynasties who won 3 or more SBs in such a short time frame?

Again, I’m not saying they need 3. But these excuses need to just stop. They need to get one. They are wasting the prime of Josh’s career.

After Kelly, it took us 20 years to find Josh. If Josh doesn’t get one and it takes another 20 years to find a QB, most of us aren’t going to be around to see what happens.

[Historian]

Re: It’s narrow-minded to say Bills haven’t succeeded without a Super Bowl

We're seven years in now and the process has been stalled for about three.

I beginning to lean in this direction, Rat.

It's certainly been fun watching the Bills succeed, for the most part, but you're right, we have been stuck in neutral for about three seasons.

I guess I wouldn't mind so much, if every playoff season, we were ousted in a wild shootout that could have gone either way.

Instead, we have this mid-season lull, where we lose to clearly inferior teams, then they get their heads on straight, and win the division.

Cool.

Wild card win.

Divisional round, team barely shows up, they're emotionally drained from the long stretch run, and older players are all nursing injuries.

Then they lose a divisional game at home, looking like they would rather be elsewhere.

Is that good enough?

I dunno.

I have no money tied up in them anymore, so I'm ambivalent. I have much more important things going on in my life to waste summer and fall afternoons sitting in a stadium that is Too hot/cold/windy/wet/pick your natural disaster.

And now, they just assured me that they really don't even want my business, because they've priced themselves right out of the market.

(FYI, we knew the PSL thing was on the horizon, so we saved money for it, but instead opted to put the money down on a summer home, and dumped our seasons...unbeknownst to us that it would have been that ridiculously priced!)

Trust me, we're much happier.

I'll still root for them, and in fact, purchased a new Mitchell-Ness sweatshirt on clearance yesterday.

But as far as caring as much as I used to?

Meh.

Keep Opie....fire him...whatever.

If they go in the tank, it will be much more difficult to sell those PSLs, IMO.

Here's the new sweatshirt:

[Forward_Lateral]

Re: It’s narrow-minded to say Bills haven’t succeeded without a Super Bowl

That's a nice sweater!

[Oaf]

Re: It’s narrow-minded to say Bills haven’t succeeded without a Super Bowl

He’s not lowering the bar, he’s simply acknowledging where we’re at and how far we’ve come. If you don’t think he and every person at OBD is doing everything in their power to win a SB, you’re crazy. Only one team gets to win every year and it takes more than just talent and coaching to do so. It takes a LOT of luck too with injuries, scheduling, weather, other teams failures, etc. I know that sounds like a bunch of crappy excuses but it’s true. One team is able to rise above it all each year and 31 other teams fail.

This. McD very likely isn't good enough to be a SB coach as we've seen, but if anyone can work their way to it, it's him.

Who had a "successful" season last year? It's basically the SB winners (KC) plus a few plucky teams that outperformed (HOU, GB, maybe DET).

[notacon]

Re: It’s narrow-minded to say Bills haven’t succeeded without a Super Bowl

Calling any Bills fan “spoiled” is outright laughable.

sounds like you feel entitled to gatekeep fandom on some seniority level.

arrogant as always.

Yep. SPOILED....the facts are undeniable.

Not "arrogant" just cognizant of history and the facts. I lived it.

1968 was a banner year....1-12-1 record.

The starting QB's that year were:

Dan Darragh (7) - one of the ****test QB's of all time...started 11 games in his three year debacle of a career with a 1-10 record.

Ed Rutkowski (3) - emergency "QB" - usually a HB/WR/DB/PR - and was mostly uninspiring at those. He had a more eventful political career as Erie County Executive.

Kay Stephenson (3) - had an awful two year career as NFL QB. After one year as a kinda sorta QB for San Diego went 0-3 for the Bills in his only 3 starts of his career. He was pretty bad Bills HC too. Replaced Chuck Knox in 1983, went 8-8 first year, then 2-14 in 1984 and was fired after four loses in 1985. Replaced by the equally crappy Hank Bullough...going 2-12 after replacing the inept Stephenson, went 2-7 to start 1986, fired and replaced by Marv Levy.

Tom Flores (1) -he was washed up by then after a few decent years in the AFL....for another team (Oak).


All of these slugs would make JP Losman look like a superstar. Most of the coaches from 1964 to 1986 (except for Lou Saban and Chuck Knox) were varying degrees of awful.....Harvey Johnson (twice), John Rauch, Jim Ringo, Kay Stephenson, Hank Bulloough.....crappy to the nth degree. MUCH worse than any HC after Levy.

Anyone who started watching the NFL Bills (AFL Bills different story) after 1986 don't know how good you have it compared to before that time.

[Historian]

Re: It’s narrow-minded to say Bills haven’t succeeded without a Super Bowl

We should have moved Kemp and kept Lamonica.

I could never understand why Saban could never beat Shula either. He was a pretty good coach, albeit a flake.

And even when Ralph made a good decision, ala hiring Knox, it was still the wrong one, as he passed on Bill Walsh to do it.

And old Jim Ringo, poor soul trying to coach with 17,000 people in the stands, lol

[Thurmal]

Re: It’s narrow-minded to say Bills haven’t succeeded without a Super Bowl

Many, many fans of this team are so traumatized by the drought that they're now perfectly content to just make the playoffs every year. They don't want to try any new strategy in regard to coaching or roster development because they're afraid of slipping back into mediocrity, even though the odds of that happening when you have the most physically gifted QB ever in his prime are very slim. It's a pretty pathetic ideology.

[jamze132]

Re: It’s narrow-minded to say Bills haven’t succeeded without a Super Bowl

Again, I’m not saying they need 3. But these excuses need to just stop. They need to get one. They are wasting the prime of Josh’s career.

After Kelly, it took us 20 years to find Josh. If Josh doesn’t get one and it takes another 20 years to find a QB, most of us aren’t going to be around to see what happens.

You don’t think they’re not trying? lol

And who’s to say we don’t go the route of Green Bay and get fortunate with our next couple of QBs? You’re too negative bro.

[Mad Max]

Re: It’s narrow-minded to say Bills haven’t succeeded without a Super Bowl

Many, many fans of this team are so traumatized by the drought that they're now perfectly content to just make the playoffs every year. They don't want to try any new strategy in regard to coaching or roster development because they're afraid of slipping back into mediocrity, even though the odds of that happening when you have the most physically gifted QB ever in his prime are very slim. It's a pretty pathetic ideology.

As evidenced by the annual coaching carousel good coaches are hard to find. This is why McD is still our coach. He has been good just not good enough.

That doesn’t mean that he has unlimited time. He doesn’t. The clocks ticking and I doubt he has more than 1-2 more failures left in his tenure as Bills HC.

[Typ0]

Re: It’s narrow-minded to say Bills haven’t succeeded without a Super Bowl

This. McD very likely isn't good enough to be a SB coach as we've seen, but if anyone can work their way to it, it's him.

Who had a "successful" season last year? It's basically the SB winners (KC) plus a few plucky teams that outperformed (HOU, GB, maybe DET).

I would agree McDermott is a good coach but think he's going to need to sever from the Bills in order to learn and reflect on what being hungry and humble really means. Our players are not prepared properly then he throws their execution under the bus all the time. McDermott needs a real attitude adjustment then he might rise up because he's smart and disciplined and he understands the game he just doesn't understand as the head coach his team is doomed when he doesn't align things correctly and teach everyone what to do. He needs to take some steps back and reflect ....

[Mace]

Re: It’s narrow-minded to say Bills haven’t succeeded without a Super Bowl

I don't think McDermott publicly saying what his philosophy is anyway is all that terrible it is what it is. He claps to rally the boys on bad plays. That's McDermott. He has no fire. He's constructed a culture of consolation prizes, next game boys! We all know they're successful on a scale. My gripe would be that your hc isn't the guy for prepaid excuses unless he's feeling like he has to defend himself.

90"s Bills were on fire to get to super bowls and buzzsawed through opponents to get there before collapse.. this crew strives for getting to the playoffs, however,, and will flatline at home. 90's Bills heading to sb's, lost 5 total home games, never a playoff game at home. Horrible weather ? Welcome to our house, it's your last stop. Never came out complacent at home.

The cerebral Levy wasn't trying to cheer the boys, he was throwing his headset, screaming swearing to fire them up. 7 full seasons in to Levy, a woeful conservative coach unemployed for 4 years before we hired him, we had been to 4 super bowls.

Besides a couple players...it"s a complacent team. It"s not one step more, they're not getting to conference championships with home playoff games even, at least lose passionately.

They're coddled, not driven, McDermott is not stepping it up. They're a less successful version of the 90's Bills that will break their records but they're getting wobbly in terms of realistic contender. The real consolation prize is the gift to the fans for faith or you blow your window with a record setting elite qb and hope you find another one quick. I'm dubious.

No more happy consolation talk, take one home, we've been waiting all our lives.

[Typ0]

Re: It’s narrow-minded to say Bills haven’t succeeded without a Super Bowl

It is the way McDermott drives the organization with the growth mindset. It totally is what I should be doing in my classroom but there isn't time for it in the NFL. Why?

Because on a very fundamental level when you direct a team like this you show them where you want them to get but you let them figure out how to get there. That is what the growth does. More emerges. You get bigger and better input on everything. The entire team flourishes. It's like magic happening. Except there isn't time for **** to emerge and then incorporate it and make adjustments -- more organized and faster thinking leaves you in the dust.

It's great and all ... and it also is plagued with some big forms of paralysis if you aren't really careful and constantly hammering and aggressively teaching both the process and where you want to get.

Trust the process is really sound thinking until the process is driving you into a train wreck.

[Mad Max]

Re: It’s narrow-minded to say Bills haven’t succeeded without a Super Bowl

I don't think McDermott publicly saying what his philosophy is anyway is all that terrible it is what it is. He claps to rally the boys on bad plays. That's McDermott. He has no fire. He's constructed a culture of consolation prizes, next game boys! We all know they're successful on a scale. My gripe would be that your hc isn't the guy for prepaid excuses unless he's feeling like he has to defend himself.

90"s Bills were on fire to get to super bowls and buzzsawed through opponents to get there before collapse.. this crew strives for getting to the playoffs, however,, and will flatline at home. 90's Bills heading to sb's, lost 5 total home games, never a playoff game at home. Horrible weather ? Welcome to our house, it's your last stop. Never came out complacent at home.

The cerebral Levy wasn't trying to cheer the boys, he was throwing his headset, screaming swearing to fire them up. 7 full seasons in to Levy, a woeful conservative coach unemployed for 4 years before we hired him, we had been to 4 super bowls.

Besides a couple players...it"s a complacent team. It"s not one step more, they're not getting to conference championships with home playoff games even, at least lose passionately.

They're coddled, not driven, McDermott is not stepping it up. They're a less successful version of the 90's Bills that will break their records but they're getting wobbly in terms of realistic contender. The real consolation prize is the gift to the fans for faith or you blow your window with a record setting elite qb and hope you find another one quick. I'm dubious.

No more happy consolation talk, take one home, we've been waiting all our lives.

Amen brotha.

You got me thinking about the personalities of SB winning coaches and most of them are ball breakers at least as much as they are cheerleaders.

I still have a little hope that opie can bring Vince home to us but have at least as much expectation that he doesn’t have more than 1-2 more shots at him.