Interesting take - Is it 2017 all over again for the Bills?

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Eric Wood podcast with Capaccio. Capaccio said the 2024 Bills reminds him of the 2017 Bills, and Wood added it would still be a bigger surprise that the 2017 Bills made playoff than the 2024 Bills winning the Superbowl.

2017, Beane traded away Cardale Jones, Sammy Watkins, Ronald Darby, Reggie Ragland, Keyon Seymore, Marcel Dareus. Everyone thought we were tanking for a QB (most people here were scouting Darnold, Rosen that year).

2024, we traded Diggs, released White, Poyer, Hyde, Morse. Not much expectation and everyone expect to see Josh's output to dip without Diggs.

We shall see.

Another point Eric made but was on my mind about CJ Strout. We'll see the true color of Strout year 2. There are many QBs have instant success year 1 but being figured out in subsequent years. Personally though, I feel his number looked so good that more than likely he's real.

[Woodman]

Stroud is that who you meant?

[POTLAND PSILBYLO]

No

[Novacane]

Not much expectation? Speak for yourself! I expect them to win the east again and get knocked out of the playoffs by KC again. More of the same. I don't see a step back.

[Chet]

It would be a better comparison if we had a new coach, just like 2017.

Alas, we’re stuck with the clapper

[notacon]

That's a pretty tenuous observation.

The Bills needed a complete overhaul of the roster in 2017. They had so little talent, especially at QB. McD had a dumpster fire left by crappy HC Rex Ryan to clean up.

McD did a spectacular clean-up job.

The other huge difference is that McD is a very good coach, while he was just trying to impress a new culture in 2017.

The culture on the Bills today is stellar.

Today, the Bills have a very strong core and foundation both in the roster, coaching staff and GM office and the culture is 180 degrees different and more positive than what it was in 2017 when McD and Beane were just getting started.

McD is a strength. I don't buy the crapping over him like some posters.

[Chet]

He’s Marvin Lewis with a software upgrade.

And again, he’s a defensive HC in a league that has left them in the dust for awhile now

[Woodman]

No

did to.

[Woodman]

He’s Marvin Lewis with a software upgrade.

And again, he’s a defensive HC in a league that has left them in the dust for awhile now

Marvin ****in Lewis where is he now?

[Chet]

Marvin ****in Lewis where is he now?

Running a Jiffy Lube and keeping a vacancy open for McD

[YardRat]

Of course it's a re-boot similar to 2017, that's glaringly obvious.

The only difference is we have QB and coach in place.

[Goobylal]

It's not even close to 2017. For starters, they have an absolute stud at QB, who gives them a chance to win every game. And even without Diggs I'd take the current receivers over the pathetic bunch of stiffs (admittedly self-inflicted) they fielded in 2017, while they have a chance to draft a good one later this month. The OL was probably better at LG and C with Incognito and Wood but they are better at the other spots and Josh hides a lot of deficiencies. RBs are better now. And I'd also take Brady over Dennison at OC.

The big question is defense. They need a DE like Hughes or Floyd. Hopefully Von returns to form over a year-and-a-half removed from his ACL injury and surgery. And they need more depth at CB and S, although there are some players available in FA like Steven Nelson, Justin Simmons and Jamal Adams, while Micah Hyde is still out there.

[Mace]

Difference to me is that McDermott came in fresh with a motivational theme for a band of Gypsies. He's got no defense guru bag of tricks and his core vets have tuned out his clapping. It's an apathetic bunch now that figures it will be ok next week, if not the week after, or maybe next year clap clap clap....all good boys.

[notacon]

It's not even close to 2017. For starters, they have an absolute stud at QB, who gives them a chance to win every game. And even without Diggs I'd take the current receivers over the pathetic bunch of stiffs (admittedly self-inflicted) they fielded in 2017, while they have a chance to draft a good one later this month. The OL was probably better at LG and C with Incognito and Wood but they are better at the other spots and Josh hides a lot of deficiencies. RBs are better now. And I'd also take Brady over Dennison at OC.

The big question is defense. They need a DE like Hughes or Floyd. Hopefully Von returns to form over a year-and-a-half removed from his ACL injury and surgery. And they need more depth at CB and S, although there are some players available in FA like Steven Nelson, Justin Simmons and Jamal Adams, while Micah Hyde is still out there.

SPOT ON!!!!

Wikipedia publishes a yearly break down of every roster and coaching changes from year to year along with a full roster.

Take a look at the abysmal, crappy roster the Bills had in 2016. The Bills 2023 roster was exponentially better.

2017 had them turning over a substantial portion of the 2016 roster. Complete 100% coaching change. Complete 100% front office change.

Here is the full list of the final 53 man roster of 2016 that were also on the final 53 man roster for 2017...

QB	Tyrod Taylor
RB	LeSean McCoy
WR	Brandon Tate
TE	Charles Clay
TE	Logan Thomas
TE	Nick O'Leary
G	Richie Incognito
C	Ryan Groy
G	John Miller
T	Jordan Mills
DE	Adolphus Washington
DE	Kyle Williams
LB	Lorenzo Alexander
LB	Preston Brown
OLB	Ramon Humber
P	Colton Schmidt

That is a SEVENTY PERCENT CHANGE.

No, 2024 (even before the draft and even close to final roster item) is not even close to 2017.

2017 was the first year of taking a broken, ****ty franchise that had missed the playoffs for SEVENTEEN YEARS (the longest non-playoff streak at that time and the second longest streak of ****tiness in post SB era history (New Orleans 20 years from 1967-1986) , and starting to turn it into a professional, well run, well coached team and a model franchise.

2024 is taking a very well run, very well coached (despite the cynics and whiners...the whole knowledgeable professional NFL knows that the Bills are a "very well coached team")....


...that has the second longest current consecutive playoff appearances (five, KC is #1 with nine) and the second longest consecutive division titles (four, KC is #1 with eight), and tweak it a little bit, get rid of the old, expensive vets and give elite Josh Allen better weapons around him than the under-performing Gabe Davis and the cancerous, whiny diva, crappy playoff NON-performing Diggs.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

I think what they are talking about is in reference to different goal posts.

The 2017 goal is playoff. The roster should be considered under that context. Prior to 2017, we had better rosters; we had seasons that came so close to a playoff birth. BUT they never got over that hump. And in 2017, it appeared that they gutted it down to take a step backwards in order to take a leap forward (like gathering ammo towards getting a legit shot at a QB). But that team over-achieved - how many of you thought we were definitely going to have a top 10 pick in 2018, likely top 5 in 2018 at the beginning of that season (and they also have Chiefs 1st rounder to go wherever they want in 2018 draft)?

Today at where we are roster wise, we have been challenging to go to the Superbowl. We had better teams in recent years, we have been very close (like 13 seconds). BUT never got over the hump. It appears we give up this year, releasing big contributors during this run; taking hits from cap perspective so we can recharge in 2025.

The miracle of 2017 can happen again. We still have Allen. We may need some luck like in 2017. We may need veterans on their last legs, Von Miller - like Kyle Williams and McCoy of 2017, to play like they are capable to play. We may need the unsplash FA signings, Curtis Samuel, Mike Edwards etc., to pan out big time like Hyde and Poyer of 2017. We need at least a couple of significant contributors from the draft, like White, Dawkins, and Millano in 2017. It is possible, but I have to admit the odds are low. Just see what I listed for 2017. We needed all of them to happen in one season.

[Goobylal]

I think what they are talking about is in reference to different goal posts.

The 2017 goal is playoff. The roster should be considered under that context. Prior to 2017, we had better rosters; we had seasons that came so close to a playoff birth. BUT they never got over that hump. And in 2017, it appeared that they gutted it down to take a step backwards in order to take a leap forward (like gathering ammo towards getting a legit shot at a QB). But that team over-achieved - how many of you thought we were definitely going to have a top 10 pick in 2018, likely top 5 in 2018 at the beginning of that season (and they also have Chiefs 1st rounder to go wherever they want in 2018 draft)?

Today at where we are roster wise, we have been challenging to go to the Superbowl. We had better teams in recent years, we have been very close (like 13 seconds). BUT never got over the hump. It appears we give up this year, releasing big contributors during this run; taking hits from cap perspective so we can recharge in 2025.

The miracle of 2017 can happen again. We still have Allen. We may need some luck like in 2017. We may need veterans on their last legs, Von Miller - like Kyle Williams and McCoy of 2017, to play like they are capable to play. We may need the unsplash FA signings, Curtis Samuel, Mike Edwards etc., to pan out big time like Hyde and Poyer of 2017. We need at least a couple of significant contributors from the draft, like White, Dawkins, and Millano in 2017. It is possible, but I have to admit the odds are low. Just see what I listed for 2017. We needed all of them to happen in one season.

No, the comparison was in terms of getting rid of talent. The difference is that most of the talent the Bills got rid of in 2017 was mostly players in their primes, whereas this past off-season it was mostly players past their primes. There's really no comparison.

[notacon]

No, the comparison was in terms of getting rid of talent. The difference is that most of the talent the Bills got rid of in 2017 was mostly players in their primes, whereas this past off-season it was mostly players past their primes. There's really no comparison.

The two biggest stars, that were in their prime, the Bills cut loose were Robert Woods (going into his 5th season) and of course, Stephon Gilmore (going into his 6th).

Gilmore signed a huge deal (for that time) with NE for 5 years $65M. Average of $13M per year. Although this was not his cap number, that amount equaled 7.78% of 2017 $167M cap.

Robert Woods deal was not as huge, 5 years/#39M....but it made him one of the highest paid players of the LA Rams.

Interestingly, in 2017, NE also signed Bills RB Mike Gillislee for 2 years/$6.4M (pretty hefty) after both teams made him an offer. Buffalo declined to match NE's contract.

To sign him, NE gave up a 5th round draft pick, which the Bills used to draft Matt Milano.

[Goobylal]

The two biggest stars, that were in their prime, the Bills cut loose were Robert Woods (going into his 5th season) and of course, Stephon Gilmore (going into his 6th).

Gilmore signed a huge deal (for that time) with NE for 5 years $65M. Average of $13M per year. Although this was not his cap number, that amount equaled 7.78% of 2017 $167M cap.

Robert Woods deal was not as huge, 5 years/#39M....but it made him one of the highest paid players of the LA Rams.

Interestingly, in 2017, NE also signed Bills RB Mike Gillislee for 2 years/$6.4M (pretty hefty) after both teams made him an offer. Buffalo declined to match NE's contract.

To sign him, NE gave up a 5th round draft pick, which the Bills used to draft Matt Milano.

Gilmore and Woods were UFAs. Neither wanted to be back (Gilmore never wanted to be there in the first place). And Woods was a good WR but I never imagined he'd put up the numbers he did.

The other guys in their prime were Watkins, and arguably Dareus and Darby.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Correct. Both Woods and Gilmore were UFAs. I bet if Beane were the Bills GM at the time, he'd find a way to get a pick for Gilmore, like franchise tag then work out a trade. Plenty of suitors, probably not to the tune of a 1st round pick, but would be a high pick.

[Goobylal]

Correct. Both Woods and Gilmore were UFAs. I bet if Beane were the Bills GM at the time, he'd find a way to get a pick for Gilmore, like franchise tag then work out a trade. Plenty of suitors, probably not to the tune of a 1st round pick, but would be a high pick.

I doubt it. Look at what Sneed went for and he's won 3 SBs with the Chefs.