Nicely stated tfj!!
Nicely stated tfj!!
Replace Donahoe with Modrak and fire the entire coaching staff!
Then let's go to Disneyworld!
GO BILLS!!!
What ever happened after all any updates?
We wanna see you spit now!!!
lets face it we suck.
Thurm If You Need a Lawyer...
...please let me know.
I got to this thread late in the game, but if I can help, please let me know.
I've read the post and I think some clarification is needed. First of all, I have worked loss prevention (store security) before I became a police officer. A private citizen CAN stop and DETAIN you and USE PHYSICAL FORCE to effect a CITIZENS ARREST if they have PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE that a crime occurred IN THEIR PRESENCE. The key here is "in their presence" and personal knowledge. (NYS CPL Section 140.30 and 140.35). The use of force to effect the arrest is covered in NYS Penal Law Article 35. Once the citizen's arrest has been made, a private citizen must turn that person over to the police. Even if criminally the citizen effecting the arrest is within the law, they are still subject to civil litigation. No one involved in this so far has the authority to impose a fine, only a judge after trial or plea.
It sounds to me that a citizens arrest was made on you. I think any attorney could easily argue that. You were stopped and detained. When security guards get in trouble is when they "think" someone committed a crime and act as police officers. Only police officers may can arrest someone based on probable cause. This is when the civil lawsuits come into play. Most companies don't want their personel making arrest (and getting into physical confrontations) so they can avoid any civil litigation if the security guards make a mistake or over step their bounds. According to what you said, it sounds like they did.
What the guard would have to prove is that you intentionally stole property. As previously posted, "intentionally depriving someone of property without paying for same." This can usually be proven with CONCEALMENT and NON-PAYMENT (going past the last point of payment with out paying). Kinda hard to conceal a keg. Not to say that some people haven't attempted to steal things underneath the cart, but it places the burden on the guard to prove that the person was actually stealing the item and not that a mistake was made. As a guard in this circumstance, as you described it, I wouldn't have detained you. (taken into a back room). I would have stopped you and mentioned the non-payment of the keg and then if you refused to pay, I could make a citizen's arrest. That would be the prudent move;
1) Avoid arresting someone and getting into a fight or in a situation to get sued.
2) If you were stealing and I wasn't definitely sure, I gave you an out, you could save face and pay for the product and the store gets their money, avoids civil litigation and everyone's happy.
As a police officer, if I was told of the situation as you explained it, I don't think I would have accepted the citizen's arrest.
Some guards get over zealous and in their desire to become police officers, think they will increase their chances by making numerous arrest. Word to those in Loss Prevention, numerous citizen's arrests will not increase your chances in becoming a police officer, it may actually decrease your chances depending on the circumstances around those arrest. I think that the courts have realized this and the case law has been written to curb the activities of security guards so they don't act like the police. In some circumstances security will attempt to get payment for the items in lieu off an arrest. Personally, I think $250.00 is a lot of money to pay for a keg of beer. $250.00 does sound like an amount that would be imposed by a judge as a fine, but only a judge can do that. This is what really bothers me. It doesn't sound right and unless I can get any other information, it sounds criminal.
According to what you posted, you made a mistake. They may or may not of made a mistake. I don't know what they observed or what the perception was. I know I wouldn't have acted in such a way, accorrding to what you said. As far as paying them $250.00, that's extremely questionable! If you want this to just go away, vent and then let sleeping dogs lie. If you feel you need to pursue this, contact a lawyer. Discuss the case and see where you can take it. Just remember, your pride may cost you dearly. As you have descibed this incident, it is extremely questionable and troubling. I find several things, as described, that trouble me. I know that some of my peers think nothing of arresting someone. Personally I think it is a very serious matter and take great care and pains to insure that if I arrest someone, they are deserving of an arrest and probable cause definitly exists. If you contact Wegman's, at the very least they could review their employee's activities and they may possibly be punished or fired, or not. As previously said, shop at Tops.
Last edited by Spellbound; 10-04-2002 at 06:55 AM.
Done and done...of course, I never shopped there before anyway, so it's not a toughy.
I go to this little bodega around the corner, there if they suspect you of shop lifting they shoot you and charge you for the bullet.
BTW...is there really a sales tax on bullets?
something smells fishy about this whole thing.
For all the education and practice each of us undergoes, the achievment of mastery is ultimately the outcome of a personal quest for understanding.
Tuna aisle 7.Originally posted by Ebenezer
something smells fishy about this whole thing.
maybe he's locked in another back room of wegman's.Originally posted by WCoastFin
What ever happened after all any updates?
Originally posted by NoCtUrNaL
Tuna aisle 7.
Without a doubt, this thread belongs here.
When I die, please don't let my wife sell my camera equipment for what I told her I paid for it.
AbsolutelyI remember this one very well
THURM was complaining about this whole episode at the game the following week even.
Well thats cuz I was PISSED!!!!!!!
Thats cause it was all your fault!
TUR wouldn't have made this mistake.
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Originally Posted by notacon
