Drew vs kelly: TD passes

[SoCalBillsFan]

Many people have complained that Drew did not throw enough TD's this year and that he has trouble generating points. Bledsoe threw 24 TD passes this year and ran for 2 more.

Jim kelly threw 24 td passes in 1990, 23 in 1992, and 18 (yes wys, that's less than 20) in 1993. In 1992 and 1993 he also threw more interceptions than Drew did this year. He never ran for more than 1 TD in any of the super bowl years. So looking at it that way Drew actually had a better season than any of kelly's super bowl years.

IN the postseason Kelly had 20 TDs and 28 INTs, not great numbers.

THe point of these numbers is not to determine who was better between Drew and Jim, but rather to show that getting rid of drew would be foolish. Drew is a QB who can succeed. Don't complain that he didn't throw enough TDs, because the BIlls have shown that the kind of performance drew gave this year has worked for them in the past. Drew can get the job done. We need to build a better TEAM, and as for the QB position, it is more than adequate. Let's focus on strengthening other positions that need it more.

Is drew going to make mistakes? of course! Might he cost us games? yes! Might he also win us games? Yes! Such is the position of quarterback. The fact is that jim cost us games and made mistakes at times too. And guess what? we went to 4 super bowls! Drew is good enough to get us back to another, not on his own, but with a good supporting cast as well.

[LtBillsFan66]

Great post!

I'm sure Green Bay feel that Favre is a big mistake. After tonight's game (sarcasm alert!!!!!!!!!!!!!!).

[WG]

Possibly SoCal. But the odds of Drew having a good game against a worthy opponent are slim. Really. Slim.

So I look at it this way; Since, and assuming we win the division, we need to play 3 games to win the big dance. Since Drew has never had even remotely a good playoff game, the odds of him stringing 3 average+ ones together when he's never even had an average playoff game by NFL QB standards, are pretty slim in deed. Whether or not we could overcome his typical errors in such contests would remain to be seen. But I would just as soon go w/ another QB who simply doesn't make those errors. I don't care if the guy is totally average and we make a living on good D and running the ball. As long as he doesn't play like Drew does, which has been horrendously, in the playoffs, I'm happy.

Again, Drew will be starting next year so there's not much of an argument on that. So let's just wait and see how he does. But to continue to argue that he'll do what he's never done is beyond me. Sure, Jimbo didn't always play well in the playoffs and in fact rarely had good games as well. But he didn't play nearly as bad as Drew witness his TD to INT ratio alone. Who would you rather have, Kelly or Bledsoe? That's a simple one to me. Also, Kelly never had what Drew now has to work with. Henry's a better rusher than Thurman if this keeps up. We had Reed, but Moulds is at least that good and Price is better than any other WR we ever had. Kelly never had a Centers. JR and Moore are as good as any TE we've had even if Drew chooses not to throw to them.

Again, compare apples to apples. We'll see. But if Drew falls apart again v. the AFC East, and likely we won't have the fortune w/ injuries that we had this year, and if he doesn't show up v. teams like Tennessee, Philly, the Giants, etc., then we'll all know. I will say that if Fiedler had played healthy in both Phin games, we likely would have lost one of those, perhaps both. Other than that, the teams we beat really didn't impress me at all.

We have a lot of work to do to be better than 8-8 next year. We won't be able to weather 4 or 5 games in which Drew tosses key INTs to give the other team serious points.

[WG]

Originally posted by BillsFanOne
Great post!

I'm sure Green Bay feel that Favre is a big mistake. After tonight's game (sarcasm alert!!!!!!!!!!!!!!).

If Drew has even one game next season in the playoffs the likes of Favre's top 4 then I'll be shocked!

Comparing Favre to Bledsoe? Gimme a break. Favre will make the hall of fame based on wins, MVPs, SB rings, and other stuff that's worthy of getting in. IF Drew makes it, it'll be b/c of yardage and other worthless stats that you say are useless except when trying to make Drew out to be great. In any case, I highly doubt that wins will be a part of it. I have little hope that we'll win a SB w/ Drew as our QB. Until Drew wins an MVP, he hasn't even started a Pro Bowl.

In the meantime, Favre has played two more full seasons than Drew and Drew's best season falls short of Favre's 7 best. Favre's worst still exceeds 3 of Drew's. Favre has almost as many TDs in his 5 best seasons as Drew does in his entire career. Oh but wait, Drew has almost as many attempts. Almost forgot that critical stat.

Favre has launched 314 TDs to Drew's 190. Minor difference.

[DIHARD2]

Wys, there, hasn't been a team that has won the Super Bowl with out having a good special teams, excellent defenses, and an offense that can score points and of course coaching.

Jim Kelly directed the offense that was his job, he won games he lost teams for us just as the quarterback of any team that's noteworthy.

Drew Bledsoe with the right (supporting cast) will take us to the Super Bowl, and win it. In doing so, there will be games he will win for us just as there will be those he loses. But win and losses are not totally the responsibility of the quarterback. Unless he throws six interceptions or loses the ball five times in the playoffs ( sarcasm alert).

The fact is, no quarterback is going to win you the Super Bowl by himself. No quarterback is going to get you to the Super Bowl by himself. It takes every player that enters the game, to play his best! That is what will get you to it and win you the Super Bowl, nothing more nothing less.

It takes the team working as a unit just as last year's winner did. New England would have never gotten to the Super Bowl if it wasn't for the excellent playing of its defense and its special teams especially.

The New York Jets would not be in the playoffs, if it wasn't for the outstanding plays there special teams has done to date. But yet, it still takes the quarterback to direct the offense and score the points needed to win.

Drew Bledsoe has only had, I believe two teams in New England that had the ability to go to the Super Bowl, and even make it to the playoffs. Fact is, he played well enough to get them there, and most of his career he has had to play out of his dairyair, just to keep the team respectful.

So for you to say that there's no way Bledsoe is going to be able to play well enough, to make it happen! I want to know why you didn't win the Powerball when it was $300 Plus million a couple weeks ago, it seems you know the future so well, and you can predict how our team is going to do, under the leadership of Bledsoe. The only way you can predict this, you have to be using a crystal ball. There's, no other way to predict that type of future without one. Especially, how our team will thrive under Bledsoe ability or according to you inability.

Wys, I'm not predicting mine on Bledsoe, ability or inability, I'm predicting mine on the supporting cast that he's going to get. So you see Wys, I feel if a mediocre quarterback like Brady can lead his offense to the Super Bowl and win, because of his supporting cast. A better than mediocre quarterback like Bledsoe should be able to do it with less. No crystal ball for me, just common sense.

GO!!!...BUFFALO!!!...

[Dozerdog]

Originally posted by Wys Guy
Who would you rather have, Kelly or Bledsoe?

Who would you rather have, Bledsoe or Chris Chandler?

Oh yeah, you answered that one already...


And your QB of the future? I think you mentioned Gannon?

I think he's got a job...NFL MVP.....

[WG]

DH,

I agree w/ some of what you say. But you seem to give all the credit to Drew for "taking the Pats to the playoffs."

Answer me this:

Q: In 1996, N.E.'s Super Bowl season, the Pats beat the Steelers 28-3 in the divisional PO game. The D and STs obviously played well holding Pittsburgh to only 3 points. Martin had a huge day rushing for 166 yards and 3 TDs. Bledsoe went 14 of 24 for 164 yards, 1 TD and 2 INTs. In spite of the INTs, the D held to allow no points off TOs.

D: allowed only 3 points all game
Martin: Had a career day w/ near 200 yards and 3 TDs
Bledsoe: Had two INTs and only 1 inconsequential TD by the time he threw it.

The question is, why did the Pats win that game?

A. On the merits of Drew's 1 TD, 2 INT, 164 yd. performance
B. On the merits of Martin's 166 yard/3 TD rushing day
C. On the merits of outstanding D and STs allowing the Steelers to only score 3 points all game
D. B & C
E. The D, STs, and Martin only played well b/c Drew was the QB


Q 2 would be who was responsible for the win the following week v. the Jags 20-6 in a game in which the offense only scored 1 TD on a TO by the Pat D that set them up at the Jags' 4 yard line and a drive on which they only ran the ball in for the team's only offensive TD of the game.

You want to say that Drew "led them to those wins" when the fact of the matter is that O'Donnell could have started and won under those circumstances. The other playoff games of his are no different.

Yeah, perhaps with "more talent and chemistry around him" he'll better "lead" us to the SB or to do well in the POs. But it would certainly be a first if he did.

On the flip side, he may also continue to play just as he did this year and always has. He may continue to have poor games against the best opponents, including the playoffs, and have key errors in those games.

You and others love to dismiss Drew's errors on poor OL play, dropped balls, bad protection, no running game, etc. But never having anything at all to do w/ his own poor decision making and bad mechanics. There's a reason why he struggles against the best of teams; it's b/c they know that to rattle him you blitz and pressure him. Even w/ excellent OL play, it only takes a couple of "get-throughs" to force him into key errors. That's all it takes often and certainly that's all it's taken in the past. Sure, he plays well for most of the game. It is only those 3 or 4 times during the course of the game that he makes such errors. But that is often more than enough such as was the case in several games this season. G.B., Raiders, N.E. (2nd). He doesn't make those mistakes in those three games and we're 10-6 or 11-5 and playing host to Indy this week.

[WG]

Originally posted by BillsFanOne
Great post!

I'm sure Green Bay feel that Favre is a big mistake. After tonight's game (sarcasm alert!!!!!!!!!!!!!!).

O.K.

So one vote is in.

Bledsoe is as good as Favre.

Why don't you go ahead and post a poll there BFO and we'll invite some fans from neutral sites to come vote too. Just let me know so the sound of laughter doesn't knock me off of my chair.

I guess I'll go back into my "Drew's the man" mode now...

It's time for that parody piece I've been holding onto! hehehe...

[DIHARD2]

Wys, I think if you read what I wrote, you would see I said Bledsoe, had the (supporting cast) or the other parts of the equation, when he took New England to the playoffs and the Super Bowl.

I also stated that New England depleted all of his weapons and his protection to wear he had to play out of his dairyair a.k.a. A double s, in order to make something happened and he did.

I'm not trying to say that Bledsoe is God gift to quarterbacks, but I am saying he is a little bit above the average quarterback. Until he wins the Super Bowl which he will, (barring injury), he will not be respected by stats hounds such as yourself. What's on paper doesn't always reflect reality.

The fact is he stands there and he'll take the abuse and make something happened more often than not. You have to admit, he kept New England respectable quit a few years without a supporting cast. So you can say what you want about him, and you can look at all his status, but there is one that doesn't show, no actually two.

One, he would stand there in the pocket and he would for some magical reason or his toughness, and every time you thought he's going down, he actually makes a completion to someone to keep a drive going, now, it's baffling.

Two, the numbers of passes that were dropped that should have been caught by his receivers do not reflect in those stats.

So that's why stats are good for picking quarterbacks like RJ and giving him 25 million dollars. I bet, if you look at RJ's stats, I would not be surprised, that it does not reflect his piss poor playing this year. Only, because of him eating the turf with the ball in his hands.

GO!!!...BUFFALO!!!...

[Captain gameboy]

I don't think Drew's past playoff performances have anything to do with how he might perform in the future. What will matter is the offensive system, the line play, the skill position level of play and the opposition. What he did as a Patriot matters not in the least.
Regarding a Bledsoe vs. Kelly comp., I would disagree with some claims made above. First, the Reed. Lofton, Beebe and name one of the many tight ends, was not a group that was significantly less capable than what we have now. They were a very good group. This year's trio of receivers was in the first year of a new system with a new QB, and one was a rookie. They weren't. Second I think Thurmon in his prime was far more of a factor than the Henry/Centers combo. Henry is a very good runner. Thomas was the total package. He was a much more dangerous receiver than Centers and was unparalleled in blitz pickup and situational awarness. Henry will get better, Centers would not be missed.
Kelly and Bledsoe both forced passes. Bledsoe has a better arm. Neither was mobile, but Kelly had better escapability. This is something that can be compensated for, to some extent. With the line gaining valuable experience this year, we might be able to roll the pocket to keep the up the middle pressure off. That way, DB can roll, then set for his throws with good vision lanes and little pressure. Not possible this year with alll the line changes in pre-season. Kelly played on a team with much better special teams, and didn't have to finsih drives as long as we have to now. Regardless, we simply can't give up deep red zone turnovers-either by him or Travis. This was the first year this group was together and all were playing under a new system.
Another point which I think is important in comparing them is the strength of the conference and division. The Bills successes were against a fairly weak AFC, and a much weaker AFC east.

[DIHARD2]

gameboy, a very good point on the difference of opponents and their skill factor that Kelly and the Bills of the Super Bowl years play as compared to the teams skill factor today. I have to agree with your statement on that fact.

So actually there really isn't any way to analyze these two as Bills quarterbacks. So I guess this is just a good off-season discussion with no true facts that are able to be judged as apples for apples.

GO!!!...BUFFALO!!!...

[SoCalBillsFan]

Wys, do you really think that Drew will lose playoff games for us if he's got a better team around him? I believe that improving the D and special teams will help a lot. And improved playcalling will as well.

For example, you like to point out the raider game a lot when bledsoe threw the interceptions. But go back to that 35-31 when he did throw the pick. What if the D would have held them to a field goal. It's only 38-31, only down 1 score. I think bledsoe would have played better. He makes mistakes trying to do too much. It's not something you can prove I know, but it could be true.

It's a waste to talk about this. He's gonabe the starter. Let's get some more players on D and see what happens.

[Fat Tony]

Better yet, how's about a defense that doesn't surrender 35 points by the third quarter

[SoCalBillsFan]

Seriously. That's why I don't understand how the raiders game was bledsoe's fault. Even without his picks we gave up 35 points.

[PA Season Ticket Holder]

Originally posted by BillsFanOne
Great post!

I'm sure Green Bay feel that Favre is a big mistake. After tonight's game (sarcasm alert!!!!!!!!!!!!!!).

Favre has turned into a mediocre QB with age. Players like Rich Gannon doesn't come around very often. I'll give Favre at least 1, maybe 2 more mediocre years and then he'll be done.

For some saying Drew will be around for the next 6 years and stuff. It will never happen.