Public Stadium Funding

[Saratoga Slim]

Re: Public Stadium Funding

If you're asking New York State/Erie County to look at this from an 'investment' perspective, that assumes we're talking about a zero sum game (build a new stadium and the Bills stay, or don't and they leave).

There's a legitimate question of whether a new stadium would actually bring in significantly more revenue for the Bills (and consequently whether it would bring in any more tax revenue for the state). From a perspective of income tax revenue on players' salaries, it wouldn't, as salaries are cap driven. And from a team income perspective, we already sell out almost every game, and who knows whether there is any more corporate money to tap in Buffalo.

So unless there's some factor that requires the Bills to build a new stadium in order to stay in Buffalo, arguing that NYS/Erie County is ignoring the income revenue doesn't really make sense. The state and county's position is essentially that they can continue to receive the same tax income (escalating slowly with cap increases and rising league revenue sharing payouts) without gambling a huge sum of money on the chance that they might eventually make slightly more.

[WagonCircler]

Re: Public Stadium Funding

If you're asking New York State/Erie County to look at this from an 'investment' perspective, that assumes we're talking about a zero sum game (build a new stadium and the Bills stay, or don't and they leave).

There's a legitimate question of whether a new stadium would actually bring in significantly more revenue for the Bills (and consequently whether it would bring in any more tax revenue for the state). From a perspective of income tax revenue on players' salaries, it wouldn't, as salaries are cap driven. And from a team income perspective, we already sell out almost every game, and who knows whether there is any more corporate money to tap in Buffalo.

So unless there's some factor that requires the Bills to build a new stadium in order to stay in Buffalo, arguing that NYS/Erie County is ignoring the income revenue doesn't really make sense. The state and county's position is essentially that they can continue to receive the same tax income (escalating slowly with cap increases and rising league revenue sharing payouts) without gambling a huge sum of money on the chance that they might eventually make slightly more.

Or it can lose the team and say goodbye to all future player income tax revenue.

But I guess NY state and Erie County are pretty used to that, right?

Good plan.

[OpIv37]

Re: Public Stadium Funding

Or it can lose the team and say goodbye to all future player income tax revenue.

But I guess NY state and Erie County are pretty used to that, right?

Good plan.

Ok, one more time: a state with a $90 billion annual budget is not going to make long term infrastructure decisions based on $20 million in income tax revenue. It is 0.0002 percent of their annual budget.

Think of it this way: it would be like you fretting over the decision to put an addition on your house because once the addition is there, your property tax would go up by 75 cents a year.

[swiper]

Re: Public Stadium Funding

Or it can lose the team and say goodbye to all future player income tax revenue.

But I guess NY state and Erie County are pretty used to that, right?

Good plan.

Not everyone in Erie County is a football fan. Those people see it very differently.

[justasportsfan]

Re: Public Stadium Funding

I think the taxes made from alcohol sales alone tops 20 million / game. Could've been more if the canadian fans weren't buying from their duty free.

[Homegrown]

Re: Public Stadium Funding

$10 "head tax" on every Canuckian crossing the border on game day, eh?

[Bill Cody]

Re: Public Stadium Funding

Or it can lose the team and say goodbye to all future player income tax revenue.

But I guess NY state and Erie County are pretty used to that, right?

Good plan.

This is so tiresome. So the bidders for the Bills are only in this under the assumption they get their money handed right back to them in the form of a new stadium? Please. The whole hostage taking nonsense billionaire's used to be able to get away with for corporate welfare in the form of gift stadiums is over. Most of the money for a new stadium is going to come out of the new owner's (probably Peg) billfold as it should.

[Guest]

Re: Public Stadium Funding

$10 "head tax" on every Canuckian crossing the border on game day, eh?

Make it $40.00.

Anything to piss us off up here so that we stop filling 1/5th of the Ralph.

Personally, I already see less interest in the Bills up here over the past 10 years and hopefully it continues so you unappreciative crap stains can be left to support the Bills alone.

I will hate the black outs, but I will figure out alternatives.

[WagonCircler]

Re: Public Stadium Funding

This is so tiresome. So the bidders for the Bills are only in this under the assumption they get their money handed right back to them in the form of a new stadium? Please. The whole hostage taking nonsense billionaire's used to be able to get away with for corporate welfare in the form of gift stadiums is over. Most of the money for a new stadium is going to come out of the new owner's (probably Peg) billfold as it should.

Ummm, no.

Do you think $400 MIL is going to build a new stadium?

What I'm saying is that a combination of public and private funding would not be a net loss for the State, as, unlike most public expenditures, there is a very reasonable expectation that a stadium would generate ROI.

$400 MIL from NY, plus a combination of funding from Delaware North, the NFL, Terry Pegula and other sources would make this very achievable.

Ralph Wilson Stadium/Rich Stadium paid fort itself many times over during the Bills tenure there, from lease payments to concession money for the County when they ran concessions.

Or we could just do what WNY has done since the 1970s--wave goodbye and watch entire industries move away.

BTW, the bidders for the team are all but guaranteed their money back from a combination of TV revenue and escalating franchise values. And Terry Pegula is the only thing standing between Buffalo keeping this team or losing it. He will have done more than his part at the end of this.

[stuckincincy]

Re: Public Stadium Funding

Make it $40.00.

Anything to piss us off up here so that we stop filling 1/5th of the Ralph.

Personally, I already see less interest in the Bills up here over the past 10 years and hopefully it continues so you unappreciative crap stains can be left to support the Bills alone.

I will hate the black outs, but I will figure out alternatives.

OTOH, we could apply the same rules about employment. Canadians cross daily and earn a living in WNY, yet if you are an American citizen, you can only get employment in Canada if - after a lengthy study - the Canadian government determines that you have a skill no Canadian has.

Or the US might demand that Canadian truckers adhere to US law and keep the same log book, and not be able to drive hours on end.

The US might demand that like Canada does, hazardous shipments must be cleared first, and limited to only a few ports on entry.

Or the US might stop Canadians who pour over the bridges to see if they are importing goods into Canada without proof of notifying the Canadian authorities of their intent when they return, and are paying legal Canadian import duties, so that your border guards don't wink at violation of Canadian laws.

Forcing US pharmaceutical companies to give your health junta drugs that Americans have to pay 100X or more, saying if you don't, you can't sell toothpaste here. All the time not carring about a healthy cottage industry that re-imports to the States at incredible profit.

Or we might take action about how Ontario reduced their drinking age to 18 after chiding us when theirs was 21, a ploy to induce US drinkers to head North. Canada..it's all about the Loonies, isn't it?

Canadians are SO selfish...

[WagonCircler]

Re: Public Stadium Funding

With Canada, it's all about the Loonies.

Truer words...

[stuckincincy]

Re: Public Stadium Funding

Truer words...

I recall when I was a lad...more than a half a century ago...being turned back from crossing because I couldn't produce a five dollar bill from my wallet. Told that I might be a vagrant. Ya right - not enough $ to spend in Canada. The entry fee escalated to a twenty as the years wore on.

[sukie]

Re: Public Stadium Funding

So the state. which is the residents , should fork over hundres of millions to preserve the jobs of millionaires so that they can be taxed in the future? And we can drink?

[Guest]

Re: Public Stadium Funding

OTOH, we could apply the same rules about employment. Canadians cross daily and earn a living in WNY, yet if you are an American citizen, you can only get employment in Canada if - after a lengthy study - the Canadian government determines that you have a skill no Canadian has.

Or the US might demand that Canadian truckers adhere to US law and keep the same log book, and not be able to drive hours on end.

The US might demand that like Canada does, hazardous shipments must be cleared first, and limited to only a few ports on entry.

Or the US might stop Canadians who pour over the bridges to see if they are importing goods into Canada without proof of notifying the Canadian authorities of their intent when they return, and are paying legal Canadian import duties, so that your border guards don't wink at violation of Canadian laws.

Forcing US pharmaceutical companies to give your health junta drugs that Americans have to pay 100X or more, saying if you don't, you can't sell toothpaste here. All the time not carring about a healthy cottage industry that re-imports to the States at incredible profit.

Or we might take action about how Ontario reduced their drinking age to 18 after chiding us when theirs was 21, a ploy to induce US drinkers to head North. Canada..it's all about the Loonies, isn't it?

Canadians are SO selfish...

There was a time when the above meant something.

Threats from a dying economic power just don't carry much fear these days.

We like the Chinese.

[OpIv37]

Re: Public Stadium Funding

Ummm, no.

Do you think $400 MIL is going to build a new stadium?

What I'm saying is that a combination of public and private funding would not be a net loss for the State, as, unlike most public expenditures, there is a very reasonable expectation that a stadium would generate ROI.

Except that what you are saying is not supported by the facts you are presenting. You provided one source of revenue- income tax from the players. You provided one expenditure for the state: it's share of construction costs.

The reality is that the issue is much more complex. There are both ongoing expenditures and additional revenue streams that you are neglecting.

In fact, many communities that used taxpayer money for stadiums have found that the stadiums led to a much lower ROI than they anticipated going in. Some have even resulted in a net financial loss for the city/state.

You are oversimplifiying the issue to make the outcome you want seem more likely.