Frank:
Hello and welcome to another edition of the BillsZone Roundtable. It has been just a few days since the Buffalo Bills lost at home to the Atlanta Falcons 24-16. We've had time to digest the loss. The last two games have exposed some major weaknesses in the Buffalo Bills lineup. Tonight I'm joined tonight by Rich Flowers (R. Rich) and Barry Gates (Voltron) from BillsZone.com. Guys, what happened to the "vaunted" Buffalo Bills defense?
Rich:
Their line can't stop the run.
Barry:
That and Mike Vick happened
Frank:
Dunn and Duckett didn't seem to have much problem either. The only difference from last year is Pat Williams. Is that the whole problem?
Barry:
Pat Williams is missed no matter what the coaches say. He was also quicker than both the guys trying to replace him.
Rich:
Cohesion is missed, Barry. They're just not playing well. What's really troubling is that there's no contain on the outside, either from the DEs or the LBs.
Barry:
I agree the LBs have been tourched 2 games straight and they are supposed to be the strength of our D.
Frank:
Are the Bills overaggressive? Is that helping the opposing offenses?
Rich:
Sometimes.
Frank:
Is there a lack of back-side contain.
Rich:
Yes.
Barry:
In this scheme every one has a gap to cover. Some one is not always getting to their gap
Rich:
They're not playing a gap technique properly, when you have backside guys over pursuing and trying to arm tackle everyone.
Frank:
With the defense being scorched the last two weeks by the run, the obvious question has got to be "how much will Takeo Spikes be missed"?
Rich:
A lot. Posey doesn't chase plays from the opposite side of the field as well as TKO, nor does he rush from the edge quite as well.
Barry:
I agree, he is the fastest player on the D and he is the biggest play maker. No one can replace him that is for sure.
Rich:
Crowell looked decent, but nothing more.
Frank:
Is the defense talented enough to overcome or are we looking at the possibilty of collapse.
Rich:
I think Barry is right about TKO being missed as far as turnovers go. Nobody generates them as well as he does.
Barry:
I think they have enough veteran leadership to make it thru this. They will not be a top 10 D though
Rich:
Frank, they may have to adjust their scheme a bit to account for Spikes' absence.
Barry:
This is where Jerry Gray will be watched by owners looking for new head coaches
Frank:
I'm worried, that much like the Achilles tear that shortened the career of former Bill Sam Cowart, that Spikes will never be the same.
Rich:
It's quite possible. An achilles injury is very tough to rehab and recover from. I think that TKO has a love of the game that Sam never had. Not to mention I don't think the Jets D was a good move for him.
Rich:
Yeah, but we didn't get emails from TKO's mom.
Frank:
Spikes is such a competitor though. I watched him come off the field and he was still trying to put his weight on that foot. He may be the toughest Bill since Darryl Talley.
Rich:
Yeah. That Spielman guy was such a wimp.
Barry:
LOL.
Frank:
Oops. Forgot about him for a minute. Spielman's wife may be tougher though, for what she went through.
Rich:
Agreed.
Barry:
I know what you mean Frank. Spikes seems like the type that will feel he let his team down by getting hurt. I think that the rehab won't be the hardest thing for him though. I think not being able to be near the game will really challenge him mentaly
Frank:
Guys, let's turn to the offense. Doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out JP Losman is having some major problems. What can we expect from the kid against New Orleans this week?
Barry:
I have come to expect nothing. LOL.
Rich:
He's going to have to be able to hang in there in the face of pressure, because the Saints will bring it all day.
Barry:
So far I have seen one long pass that he has made that looked good and it was against Houston. Teams will not respect his arm until he can prove he can get the ball out there
Rich:
He has to have time to go through his progression of reads. He hasn't. While our OL has done okay in run blocking, their pass protection is downright awful.
Barry:
That I can agree with; it is both Guard positions that I see it from and Anderson worries me because he was supposed to be such an upgrade
Rich:
Agreed, Barry. I am surprised at how badly I've seen Villarrial play this year. That, and Teague just blows this year. He seems to be regressing. Then the coaches pulling out the starter for a rookie on a make or break play? That is a rookie mistake.
Frank:
I actually like the left side of the offensive line. The right side worries me.
Rich:
Gandy and Bennie have both looked good at times and have looked really bad at times. They have been a bit better than the supposed strength of our line, the right side. Hey Barry, I think the coaching has been a bit suspect also.
Barry:
Gandy is serviceable. That was the only question mark I had at the begining of the year. And why Mike Williams is making LT money as a RT is beyond me
Frank:
Barry, Williams is making that money because he was the 4th pick in the draft...not because of his position. I just think that at some point they need to draft some linemen high in the draft.
Rich:
Welcome to my argument for the past 3 or 4 years.
Frank:
You haven't been alone Rich. I wanted them to go into last year's draft looking for linemen, offensive and defensive, in the first three rounds.
Rich:
It's more than that, Frank. Some of the decisions the staff has made are downright puzzling.
Frank:
Such as.
Rich:
Pulling Losman, for starters. Either you're going with him, or you're not. Stand behind your QB, if you are. Playing head games with an inexperienced player like JP is a recipe for disaster.
Barry:
Amen
Frank:
I agree Rich. Is there a point where you pull him for the season or do you just live and die with him for the year?
Rich:
Pull him for what? A QB who is barely average? I say stick w/ Losman and take your lumps, if there's any to take.
Barry:
I say the school of hard knocks is not a bad school. Every QB no matter how great has gone thru it.
Frank:
To me, when they got rid of Bledsoe they cast the die. You got to stay with JP unless he gets hurt.
Barry:
And that he will unless he starts to SLIDE!
Rich:
Yeah, who is the guy who keeps posting stuff about Peyton Manning's rookie season?
Barry:
He is driving me nuts with that
Frank:
I don't know Rich. Let's skip around the NFL really quickly. Is Carson Palmer for real?
Rich:
Yes.
Barry:
I say yes
Frank:
Prime example of learning on the job, no?
Barry:
Yep
Rich:
Cincy did a good job of bringing him along, much like what the Titans did with McNair.
Frank:
Hopefully, it will work here for Losman.
Barry:
For every Palmer there are a Harrington and Carr though
Rich:
Thing is, both McNair and Palmer had more time to sit and learned more, plus they weren't injured as rookies.
Frank:
The Jets lose Pennington and sign Testaverde...upgrade??
Barry:
Maybe if it were 1990. Jake Plummer
Rich:
Hey, Plummer isn't so bad. He throws a ton of picks, but has shown the ability to lead a team to wins also.
Barry:
I like Jake, but everytime you think he is about to make it to the top of the hill the rock goes rolling down after him
Rich:
The Bears are just snake bitten with their QBs.
Frank:
Kyle Orten? What do you think?
Barry:
Will Rex ever make it thru more than 2 games a season?
Frank:
I don't think so. He's just one of those guys not built for the NFL.
Rich:
Orton killed my fantasy team last week. Bastard.
Frank:
I take it you don't have Orten in your line up.
Rich:
Yes I do, Frank. It's a salary cap league, and I spent big on RBs (Willis McGahee, LaDanian Tomlinson). I had to take Orton; he was the best starter I could afford.
Frank:
I hear ya.
Rich:
He and Kerry Collins are my QBs.
Frank:
Will the additions out in Oakland help Collins resurrect his career? He has to like throwing to Randy Moss.
Barry:
I think so; I never thought he was that bad of a QB. He just never had the weapons.
Rich:
Collins has done more with less, like he did in New York. He's a talented guy; more of a Jeff George without all the headaches.
Frank:
I never liked George as a QB.
Rich:
I never thought he should've been the top overall pick in the draft, that's for sure.
Frank:
I still remember his first game here at Rich Stadium. He looked terrible.
Barry:
Also remember what a problem Tiki Barber had holding onto the ball in the years that Collins was there.
Rich:
Yes.
Barry:
He took a lot of heat for things that he had no control over
Frank:
Barber holds onto the ball so much better.
Rich:
Sure does. Maybe Ronde hooked him up.
Frank:
ROFL. Are they identical twins?
Rich:
Yep
Frank:
Is fumbling a genetic trait?
Rich:
Obviously not. Ronde has been sure handed his entire career.
Frank:
Maybe they switched teams...lol.
Barry:
he he
Frank:
Any surprise teams so far this year? I think Tampa is shocking some folks.
Rich:
Minnesota
Barry:
Well the Chargers are a surprise in a different way.
Frank:
I think the Vikings suck this year.
Barry:
Miami as much as it pains me to say it. I think they hit the coaching lottery
Rich:
They were no surprise to me. Just like the Dolphins tried to buy a team with Steve Emtman and Quentin Coryatt, and how the Skins tried to buy a team with Bruce Smith and Deion Sanders, it isn't working out.
Frank:
Was Dave Wannstedt the whole problem down there? It's not like Nick Saban came in and changed 20 or 30 players.
Rich:
From what I gather, the players in Miami respect Saban a whole lot more than they did Wanny.
Barry:
I have said it before on the boards. I was very scared the day I heard he took the Job down there
Frank:
No doubt this division keeps getting tougher.
Rich:
And more banged up.
Barry:
No kidding; this may be the year the AFCE gets dethroned and back to reality
Frank:
Let's turn to college for just one second. Anybody see the touching gesture by Notre Dame coach Charlie Weis?
Rich:
?
Barry:
I don't really follow college football. Just Syracuse and I can't watch them lately
Frank:
He let a dying boy call the first offensive play for Notre Dame against Washington Saturday.
Rich:
Nice move. Weis seems to be a classy guy.
Barry:
That is very cool
Frank:
The young man died on Friday before the game but wanted a "pass right" on the first play. The first time ND got the ball they were on their own 1. They ran the play anyway. A compete pass for 13 yards.
Barry:
I have nothing but respect for the Coaches of the Pats for the last few years. If anything I am jealous that they are all so good
Frank:
I wanted Weis when they hired Mularkey.
Rich:
I wanted Paterno.
Barry:
Tom Coughlin here but now that I see all the problems in NYC I am glad they didn't
Frank:
I liked Coughlin but I don't think he wanted to be here. He wanted that Giants job.
Rich:
I'm glad he didn't let that game get turned into mudslinging between him and Willingham.
Frank:
Willingham is a very good coach who kind of got railroaded out of town.
Rich:
Kind of?
Frank:
OK. Did get run out of town.
Rich:
Frank, clearly Ty was held to a standard that the Irish didn't hold guys like Bob Davie and Gerry Faust to. He was screwed.
Frank:
Please don't say Gerry Faust. Ouch. Those were bad, bad days.
Rich:
I bet nobody will be so quick to offer a high school coach a head coaching job @ a major school again.
Barry:
?
Frank:
I don't think it has happened since. Gerry Faust was one of the best HS coaches in Ohio and ND hired him to be the HC.
Rich:
Faust coached @ Akron when my cousin, a HS quarterback, was there. I told him that he wouldn't play QB for Faust. I was right. He did turn out to be a pretty good college LB though.
Barry:
Cool!
Frank:
That's great. Did he ever get drafted or a tryout with an NFL team?
Rich:
I think he earned a tryout, but didn't latch on anywhere. His name is Bruce Keys. He threw 2 TD passes for the PA team in the Big 33 game.
Barry:
My Uncle was very close with Coach MacPherson. I got to be a ball boy for SU one year. That is the extent of my college football career
Frank:
Well, let's get back to the Bills. What are your thoughts about the game against the temporarily displaced New Orleans Saints?
Rich:
They will pressure JP all day, and our DL better wake up, because Deuce runs very hard between tackles.
Barry:
I am not sure we can win away with such a huge loss on D. Not in a physical sense mind you but the fact that Spikes was the emotional leader
Frank:
This game scares me. NO first "home" game. The Bills without Spikes. JP struggling. This has logical loss written all over it.
Barry:
I have very little confidence in the O and I am starting to think they have even less in JP that is what really worries me.
Rich:
Well, I'll be there to cheer the Bills on.
Frank:
Cool. You got good tickets?
Rich:
Don't know. We were able to exchange our tickets, but I can't remember where these new ones are.
Frank:
I think that is great. I've never seen the Bills on the road.
Rich:
NEVER?
Frank:
Nope. Never.
Barry:
Me neither. Have a great time! Take some time to check out the river walk
Rich:
We're staying @ the Holiday Inn on the Riverwalk, Barry. You guys should've come to the Baltimore game last year.
Frank:
That would have been fun.
Barry:
Well you and your wife will have a great time! It is very romantic
Rich:
It's not quite New Orleans, but this will be my first time there since I was in basic training in the Air Force back in '88.
Frank:
Well guys, any predictions for Sunday.
Barry:
Bills 13 Saints 21
Rich:
I think the Bills will play hard, but come up short:
Rich:
Saints 93, Bills 5
Frank:
I think we see the offense do a little better but the Saints hold serve.
Barry:
Ohh they get a safety!
Frank:
93? McAllister is that good?
Rich:
Seriously, I don't know. A lot will depend on how JP handles the pressure he's sure to see.
Barry:
And if Big Mike is back in the lineup. If not I want to see Rich Suit up
Rich:
What about it? The right side of the line has been underachieving this year.
Barry:
Mike is still a better alternative.
Rich:
If they pay me $5 million, I'll play.
Barry:
LOL
Frank:
Play? I'll run the scout squad for the veteran minimum.
Rich:
The vet minimum will just cover the extensive hospital bills. After that, I may as well have just gone to work at my job.
Frank:
No, all the bills are covered. The teams cover very good health insurance.
Barry:
Good point; I think that JP will get better but it is going to be a long slow road. I don't see him starting this week.
Rich:
You see Holcomb starting?
Frank:
What? That will shock the faithful.
Rich:
It's what they want. Just read any message board. "JP sucks. Start Holcomb."
Frank:
ROFL, good point.
Barry:
I hope not but the way this staff has been I wouldn't doubt to see him for the Miami game if JP falls apart this week, too.
Rich:
Good thing I won't be going to that one, then.
Barry:
Yeah, thanks, and on my Birthday no less
Frank:
Well guys, thanks for joining me tonight and I hope you will join me again.
Barry:
For sure
Rich:
I will not.
Frank:
Even for a spare beer?
Rich:
Now, when do we get paid for this?
Frank:
Paid??
Barry:
You will get paid but it is in Zone Bucks
Rich:
Ripoff.
Frank:
OK guys....thanks and have a good night....roflmao
Barry:
Night Frank and Rich
Rich:
See ya when they free ya!
Barry:
Have fun on your trip Rich!
Rich:
I won't.
Frank:
Yes. Enjoy rich.

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