So JP didn't play a flawless game

[Kerr]

He probably didn't do enough to get the job, but considering they lost a game that didn't really matter, I can live with an int and 2 fumbles.

Even starting qb's throw ints, but what stuck out from jp was after the int, he came back and threw for a TD. It was important than he was able to come back and he didn't lose it mentally.

As far as the fumbles are concerned, I wouldn't feel so bad knowing we have the king of qb fumbles in our own division-culpepper.

:up:

[OpIv37]

3 TO's in limited playing time is disturbing. This team cannot afford to beat itself, and TO's are the best way to do that.

Yeah, everyone has bad games, but I have to wonder why everyone gets so excited about a good preseason performance against Carolina, then completely dismisses a bad preseason performance against Cincy because "it's only preseason."

They way I see it, JP has looked terrible against other teams' starting D's and that's very disturbing, preseason or not.

[Meathead]

fumble problems are usually easy to correct once attention is paid to it

consistently hitting long balls is much harder to teach

[shelby]

He is gaining more poise in the pocket. He is improving, although he has a lot of work to do yet.
You have to remember that, until last week, he was splitting reps in practice with Holcomb. Give the kid time. It's his make-or-break season, and you'd better believe he knows that.

[OpIv37]

It completely frustrates me that it's always one step forward- two steps backwards with JP.

He does some really good things against Carolina to make me think he might finally be getting it, then he follows it up by looking just like he did against Atlanta and TB early last season. Dammit.

[The_Philster]

Only the coaches and JP and Reed know what happened on that pick. I watched the replay on tape this morning and Josh looked confused ...like he didn't know which way to make his cut :idunno: Not saying it was Josh's fault but interceptions are rarely all the fault of the QB

[Risin]

3 TO's in limited playing time is disturbing. This team cannot afford to beat itself, and TO's are the best way to do that.

Yeah, everyone has bad games, but I have to wonder why everyone gets so excited about a good preseason performance against Carolina, then completely dismisses a bad preseason performance against Cincy because "it's only preseason."

They way I see it, JP has looked terrible against other teams' starting D's and that's very disturbing, preseason or not.


I wouldn't call how he played Friday terrible.

People not being able to see he has improved, is what is disturbing to me.

Rome wasn't built in a day, and if 2 fumbles are what has everybody up in arms, I'm happy. He has shown zero problems with this in the past, so I'd say it was an aberration, not a trend.

The INT has been discussed ad nauseum, so I'm not even going to go there.

The one thing I watched for was how he'd bounce back after a bad play. Last season it seemed he'd go into the tank, never to be found again. On Friday he came back and atoned for his mistake, which was very encouraging.

Try not to disect every play, and look at things rationally.

There were some things to be positive about.

:)

[YardRat]

Only the coaches and JP and Reed know what happened on that pick. I watched the replay on tape this morning and Josh looked confused ...like he didn't know which way to make his cut :idunno: Not saying it was Josh's fault but interceptions are rarely all the fault of the QB

Both JP and Jauron commented in their post game interviews that it was JP's fault. I haven't heard anything from Reed.

[YardRat]

The one thing I watched for was how he'd bounce back after a bad play. Last season it seemed he'd go into the tank, never to be found again. On Friday he came back and atoned for his mistake, which was very encouraging.


Agreed.

[The_Philster]

:scratch: Ok...thanks,...I hadn't heard that

[Meathead]

im really not concerned with that one pick. young qbs are usually int machines and jp did pretty well at that even last season so i would expect him to be even better at avoiding them this year

if you recall, jimbo was throwing too many picks when he first got here, and that was after playing so well in the usfl. but you will also recall that tossing a pick seemed to make jimbo play even better. if theres one thing i loved about jp friday was every time he made a mistake he seemed to come back stronger. you just cant teach that kind of swagger and to show it now is a great sign

also, considering he hovered around 50% most of last season im thrilled that so far hes up in the 60s. if that holds during the reg season he will be more than adequate as a starter, and if he can do both that and keep completing the long balls he could be a huge surprise

if

[Goobylal]

It's also been mentioned that JP is NOT scrambling. I think once he adds that back into his arsenal, he'll be a MUCH better player.

[Mudflap1]

Listen up, here is the bottom line.....

4-12 or 5-11, brace for it.

Jon

[Goobylal]

No way the Bills will be worse than last year. They will AT LEAST be 6-10 if for no other reason than their schedule is better/the AFC East is getting worse. Beyond that I think their defense will be MUCH improved, ST's will still be killer, and the running game will work a lot better.

[feelthepain]

No way the Bills will be worse than last year. They will AT LEAST be 6-10 if for no other reason than their schedule is better/the AFC East is getting worse. Beyond that I think their defense will be MUCH improved, ST's will still be killer, and the running game will work a lot better.


How is the AFC getting worse??? You're Saying the Bills will be better then last year. Do you think the Pats and Fins will be worse??

[Goobylal]

How is the AFC getting worse??? You're Saying the Bills will be better then last year. Do you think the Pats and Fins will be worse??
Yes. The Pats have lost good coaches and players over the past 2 years, to the point that they are no longer the same dominant team they once were.

The Dols look to me to be JUST like the Bills were in 2004, i.e. a strong finish with a rookie head coach and thinks looking bright, then the following year hits. I think the O-line will be worse, Culpepper IMHO still has a lot to prove in that his performance last year BEFORE getting hurt was an aberration and not what he looks like without Moss, Linehan, and Birk, and the defense is REALLY old.

Already I can tell that the Bills' rush defense will be much-improved and that their offense will be as well. I know that's not saying a whole lot, but again the idea is IMPROVEMENT over last year.

[feelthepain]

Yes. The Pats have lost good coaches and players over the past 2 years, to the point that they are no longer the same dominant team they once were.

The Dols look to me to be JUST like the Bills were in 2004, i.e. a strong finish with a rookie head coach and thinks looking bright, then the following year hits. I think the O-line will be worse, Culpepper IMHO still has a lot to prove in that his performance last year BEFORE getting hurt was an aberration and not what he looks like without Moss, Linehan, and Birk, and the defense is REALLY old.

Already I can tell that the Bills' rush defense will be much-improved and that their offense will be as well. I know that's not saying a whole lot, but again the idea is IMPROVEMENT over last year.

So the Bills do little to improve have a whole new scheme on both sides of the ball no clear front runner at QB and the worst Oline in the division and they will get better, but the Fins will be worse?? I should have asked you what you want to happen not what you think will happen because you're living in some kinda dream world.

Already you can tell your run Defense will be much better?? From two preseason games?? JP has three turnovers by himself and it's ok it's only preseason, but your D is better because they are playing two or three series in two preseason games?? Dude, just stop it. Why don't you wait till week five in the regular season to make judgements of your team, because right now everything you see means nothing.

[Goobylal]

Okay ftp, the Dolphins got worse in this manner:

-They lost Ricky Williams, who was half their running game last year. The HOPE is that Ronnie Brown can pickup the slack, but that remains to be seen, and the depth is nowhere NEAR as good as it was without Ricky.
-They lost OC Scott Linehan, who was a great OC. That alone is a huge downgrade.
-To replace Linehan, they picked-up Mike Mularkey. As much of a downgrade as losing Linehan was, this was as big of one by his addition to the team. You'll see what I mean when the real season starts.
-Bennie Anderson is your starting RG. With Seth McKinney, who WOULD have been the starting RG, out with an injury, BA gets the start and is SURE to delight you with penalties and sacks galore, just like last night.
-Your QB situation is no better than the Bills'. While again the HOPE is that Culpepper will return to pre-2005 form, there's no evidence he WILL. He doesn't have Moss to throw to, Linehan to coordinate him, or Birk to protect him. Plus he's got the gimpy knee to boot.
-The Dols' defense is OLD. And they just got older with them adding Big Daddy, demoting Matt Roth to backup behind David Bowens, and Manny Wright being a bust.

And remember that the Bills were SIX seconds away from sweeping the Dolphins, if not for some god-awful play-calling by Mularkey, who was the OC after the first 4 games of the season last year. The Bills also were close to beating the Pats in the first game. Again this was ALL with a crap coaching staff and cancers on the team in the form of Adams and Moulds (who quit on the team in the Miami game).

[feelthepain]

-They lost Ricky Williams, who was half their running game last year. The HOPE is that Ronnie Brown can pickup the slack, but that remains to be seen, and the depth is nowhere NEAR as good as it was without Ricky.

Ricky was a loss, but it's not a huge loss. We have good depth at the RB position. Infact we aren't going to sign anyone because we have what we need at the RB position.


-They lost OC Scott Linehan, who was a great OC. That alone is a huge downgrade.

Scott Linehan was a good OC, but so is MM. We have a ton of talent on O and will be better this year.


-To replace Linehan, they picked-up Mike Mularkey. As much of a downgrade as losing Linehan was, this was as big of one by his addition to the team. You'll see what I mean when the real season starts.

Typical Bill fan, always trashing players and coaches that leave, especially when they end up playing or coaching with a division rival. MM was only a Bill for a short time and at this point last year you Bill fans didn't have one bad word for MM, but the Bill last year lose a bunch of talent and have a few key injuries and it's all MM fault......sure! MM isn't the Bills OC with JP as his QB, MM is in Miami with Culpepper, Chambers, McMichael and Brown, big difference in talent.


-Bennie Anderson is your starting RG. With Seth McKinney, who WOULD have been the starting RG, out with an injury, BA gets the start and is SURE to delight you with penalties and sacks galore, just like last night.


No he's not! But if you knew a damn thing about the Dolphins you'd know that. If Anderson does earn the spot, then he earned it. We have the best Oline coach in all of football we will have one of the better Olines in football this year no matter who starts at guard.


-Your QB situation is no better than the Bills'. While again the HOPE is that Culpepper will return to pre-2005 form, there's no evidence he WILL. He doesn't have Moss to throw to, Linehan to coordinate him, or Birk to protect him. Plus he's got the gimpy knee to boot.
-The Dols' defense is OLD. And they just got older with them adding Big Daddy, demoting Matt Roth to backup behind David Bowens, and with Manny Wright being a bust.

Wow... that has to be the dumbest statement I've read in a while. Culpepper, Harrington and Lemon are no better then Holcomb, Losman and Nall??? Wake up man, you are seriously in some kinda dream world.


And remember that the Bills were SIX seconds away from sweeping the Dolphins, if not for some god-awful play-calling by Mularkey, who was the OC after the first 4 games of the season last year. The Bills also were close to beating the Pats in the first game. Again this was ALL with a crap coaching staff and cancers on the team in the form of Adams and Moulds (who quit on the team in the Miami game).

Funny how MM only gets credit from you when you lose, no credit to MM when you win. Why?? Because you can't trash him if you give him credit. You're pathetic, stop posting if you can't post like an adult who understands the game. Everything you post is bias.<!-- / message -->

[Goobylal]

LOL! So you have "good backups" behind Brown, much less as good as Ricky? Get a clue, man! That's got to be THE dumbest statement I've heard yet. I think even most Dols fans would agree with me on THAT one.

And even if you DO think Mularkey was a good OC, he's not nearly as good as Linehan. So at best you STILL downgraded at OC, and at worst downgraded a LOT. Again I think if you polled non-Bills or Dols fans, you'd find that concensus. And because of TD (another guy I'm glad the Bills got rid of now that we know more of the story), the Bills were tight-lipped about everything. We didn't know until AFTER the season that Mularkey took over play-calling duties after the 4th game of the season, so the Bills' offensive ineptitude did NOT improve with Mularkey calling the plays. And it's hard to give him credit for the wins when the Bills RARELY won, and rarely because of him.

As for Anderson, he started last night, didn't he? Who you got behind him and is he any better? Again most of the sacks and penalties came from HIM.

Finally WRT your QB situation, outside of Culpepper, your QB's are worthless. And AGAIN Culpepper will need to prove that last year's horrendous performance was an aberration and NOT how he truly is without Moss, Linehan, and Birk. And that's on TOP of having his gimpy knee, which will be a target of opposing defense this year (he's a sack magnet as it is). And before you get all orgasmic over his performance last night, chew on this: last pre-season he went 36 of 44 (82%) for 520 yards a TD and an INT and proceeded to stink-it-up during the regular season.

[feelthepain]

LOL! So you have "good backups" behind Brown, much less as good as Ricky? Get a clue, man! That's got to be THE dumbest statement I've heard yet. I think even most Dols fans would agree with me on THAT one.

And even if you DO think Mularkey was a good OC, he's not nearly as good as Linehan. So at best you STILL downgraded at OC, and at worst downgraded a LOT. Again I think if you polled non-Bills or Dols fans, you'd find that concensus. And because of TD (another guy I'm glad the Bills got rid of now that we know more of the story), the Bills were tight-lipped about everything. We didn't know until AFTER the season that Mularkey took over play-calling duties after the 4th game of the season, so the Bills' offensive ineptitude did NOT improve with Mularkey calling the plays. And it's hard to give him credit for the wins when the Bills RARELY won, and rarely because of him.

As for Anderson, he started last night, didn't he? Who you got behind him and is he any better? Again most of the sacks and penalties came from HIM.

Finally WRT your QB situation, outside of Culpepper, your QB's are worthless. And AGAIN Culpepper will need to prove that last year's horrendous performance was an aberration and NOT how he truly is without Moss, Linehan, and Birk. And that's on TOP of having his gimpy knee, which will be a target of opposing defense this year (he's a sack magnet as it is). And before you get all orgasmic over his performance last night, chew on this: last pre-season he went 36 of 44 (82%) for 520 yards a TD and an INT and proceeded to stink-it-up during the regular season.


Hey Genius...we don't need Ricky we have Ronnie. Harrington is our backup QB and better then any QB you have on the Bills. Bennine Anderson started last night, but that doesn't make him our starter, it's preseason and Bennie is new to the team Saban is seeing what he can do aginst starting talent in our system he's by no means earned a starting spot on our roster. Linehan isn't better then MM they both have about the same kinda stats as OC. Culpepper gets far more respect around the league then you and your two year old opinion of him. You want to think Culpepper will be what he he was in one half a season last year rather then the QB he was in the previous 6 full seasons where he posted some of the best numbers of any QB in history. I sure don't see many people around the league talkin about JP and the Bills, but there sure seems to be one helluva lot of talk about Culpepper and the Fins, you figure it out. I just love how a Bills fan has the never to knock anyone elses QB situation....classic.

[Goobylal]

Hey Genius...we don't need Ricky we have Ronnie. Harrington is our backup QB and better then any QB you have on the Bills. Bennine Anderson started last night, but that doesn't make him our starter, it's preseason and Bennie is new to the team Saban is seeing what he can do aginst starting talent in our system he's by no means earned a starting spot on our roster. Linehan isn't better then MM they both have about the same kinda stats as OC. Culpepper gets far more respect around the league then you and your two year old opinion of him. You want to think Culpepper will be what he he was in one half a season last year rather then the QB he was in the previous 6 full seasons where he posted some of the best numbers of any QB in history. I sure don't see many people around the league talkin about JP and the Bills, but there sure seems to be one helluva lot of talk about Culpepper and the Fins, you figure it out. I just love how a Bills fan has the never to knock anyone elses QB situation....classic.
Oh yes, you have Ronnie, you don't need Ricky. :rolleyes:

Harrington? Please, he'd be 3rd string on the Bills. That dog proved he couldn't hunt over 4 lousy seasons as a starter.

Anderson has started at RG the past 2 pre-season games. He IS your starter. And if he loses his job, don't think his replacement will magically be better, because that guy would have been starting there already.

Give up the ghost with Mularkey being as good as Linehan. Mularkey had at best TWO good seasons as an OC in his 3 years in PGH. What Linehan did with Miami's offense last year was amazing, contrasted severely with Mularkey and his offense the past 3 years (two in Buffalo and one in Pgh). You guys might be great at opening drives, but you'll never be able to make adjustments to save your lives. And then there are the LOVELY trick plays...

Finally WRT Culpepper, yes he's big news. That's because he went to the Dols, who are annually overhyped and overrated, and because everyone conveniently forgets how bad Culpepper was last year before he got injured and think he'll revert to pre-2005 form. Well it ain't that simple. It's not like he had the same team and it was merely a down year. He lost key people, people he WON'T be playing with in Miami. So he's got that to prove AND that he can stay healthy given his knee. If he can do that, I can see Miami having a good year. But given those and a new system, not to mention a shaky O-line, I doubt it happens.

[feelthepain]

Oh yes, you have Ronnie, you don't need Ricky. :rolleyes:

Harrington? Please, he'd be 3rd string on the Bills. That dog proved he couldn't hunt over 4 lousy seasons as a starter.

Anderson has started at RG the past 2 pre-season games. He IS your starter. And if he loses his job, don't think his replacement will magically be better, because that guy would have been starting there already.

Give up the ghost with Mularkey being as good as Linehan. Mularkey had at best TWO good seasons as an OC in his 3 years in PGH. What Linehan did with Miami's offense last year was amazing, contrasted severely with Mularkey and his offense the past 3 years (two in Buffalo and one in Pgh). You guys might be great at opening drives, but you'll never be able to make adjustments to save your lives. And then there are the LOVELY trick plays...

Finally WRT Culpepper, yes he's big news. That's because he went to the Dols, who are annually overhyped and overrated, and because everyone conveniently forgets how bad Culpepper was last year before he got injured and think he'll revert to pre-2005 form. Well it ain't that simple. It's not like he had the same team and it was merely a down year. He lost key people, people he WON'T be playing with in Miami. So he's got that to prove AND that he can stay healthy given his knee. If he can do that, I can see Miami having a good year. But given those and a new system, not to mention a shaky O-line, I doubt it happens.

Ooops, almost forgot who I was posting with...a Bill fan. It explains everything. The Fins have no QB and the Bills do, the Fins need a backup to Ronnie and the Bills don't with Willis. The Fins have a former Bill HC as their new OC so he automatically sucks, Bennie Anderson played with the Bills one season on one of the worst lines in football, but it's Bennie that sucks ....cause he's now a fin and the rest of the porbowl oline in Buffalo will block for your probowl QB JP Losman!! Got it!!

JP Losman- 8 games started:233-116= 49.6 Pct 8 TD's 9 int's QB rating of 63.5

Kelley holcomb-23 games started: 810-523 64.6 Pct 37 TD's 37 int's 79.9 QB rating

Craig Nall-0 games started: 33-23 69.7 Pct:4 TD's 0 int's 139.4 QB rating

Willis McGahee- 2005 stats= 15 games started: 325 att-1247 yards avg.3.8 YPC. 5 td'S.


Daunte Culpepper-80 games started:2607-1678 64.4 Pct. 135 TD's 86 int's QB rating of 91.5

Joey Harrington-55 games started:1802-986 54.7 Pct 60 TD's 63 int's QB rating of 68.1

Cleo Lemon- No stats

Ronnie Brown-2005 stats=14 games started 207-907 avg 4.4 YPC 4 td'S.

Gee sure looks like you're right!!! The Bills are stacked!! NOT!!! Joeys numbers are far better then any QB you have on your roster, I won't eve mention Daunte because lets face it he's a probowl QB with a rocket for an arm and and bigger then most LB's and some DT's. Ronie puet up better numbers then Willis with less games under his belt and Ricky Williams to share the laod. It's Ronnies team now and he's looking forward to running over people. BTW Willis is in far more Danger of going down before Ronnie becaus of his knee injury. Culpeppers knee won't get the same work as Willis's knee because Willis is a RB abd Daunte a QB so if Willis can run on his knee Daunte wll be fine on his.


BTW incase you can't add, the Bills QB's have a grand total of 31 starts 49 TD's 46 int's and and avg. QB ranking of 71.7 While the fins have 135 starts 195 TD's 149 int's and an AVG. QB rating of 79.8. considering the fins QB's have so many more starts then the Bills QB's those numbers are staggering!!! Yeah Miami's QB's suck!!! BTW, I din't add in rushing yards for the QB's if I had, your QB's would be way way way behind in that category too. Good luck this year, with your crop of probowl QB's!!
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[K-Gun12]

It is evident to me that JP still has a long way to go. They guy is still making terrible decisions on field and just sounds so careless when he's interviewed sideline.

Holcomb is definitely the smarter QB but Kelly lacks the athleticism that JP has.

As for Nall...I dont see Nall being anything more than a Todd Collins or BJ Hobert if he was given the Offensive reigns.

What we need is Holcombs decision making paired with JP's athleticism.

[Goobylal]

Ronnie has NEVER taken the full load in college and so far in the NFL. Until he does, it's all speculation. Willis has (Brown with better numbers? Please, you're embarrassing yourself!) and the Bills have better backups now than do the Dols sans Ricky. And Willis is at no more risk of getting injured than Brown is. So Brown pretty much has a lot to prove. And oh yeah, there's that thing called the "sophomore slump."

As for Culpepper, again I said IF HE CAN RETURN TO PRE-2005 FORM, the Dols will do well. But like with Brown carrying the full load, it's "show me, Daunte." He's got too much on his plate to IMNSO to be successful, given a new team and system, the injury, a lousy OC, and not having his former teammates.

And PLEASE, give it up with Harrington! He's started 55 games and has a career rating of 68.1. Losman has started just 8 games and that's not even CLOSE to the number of starts you need to accurately gauge a QB, much less 55 lousy starts. If he's your starter for an extended period, and I think he WILL be, you're in for a long year.

And why do you THINK the Bills released Bennie Anderson? Because he was the best player on the O-line and they wanted him to go to Miami? He sucks, just as he's sucked in the 1st 2 pre-season games for Miami. If Houck hasn't fixed him by now, he NEVER WILL. But apparently he's he best Miami has right now, what with McKinney getting injured.

Yes I realize you're a Miami fan and annually you have delusions of grandeur about your team that never get realized. Can't say it's your fault so much as it's the local and national media. But if you think the Dols haven't downgraded a good amount this off-season, you're in for a rude awakening.

[K-Gun12]

Please....Culpepper makes terrible decisions both ON and OFF the field. The guy has the arm to fling the ball downfield to a guy like Randy Moss...and hope that he makes another immaculate catch.

Take away Moss and Culpepper becomes mediocre. Granted he has some weapons to use in Miami this season....there wont be anymore excuses for Daunte if he sucks it out in 06 also.

Sorry....never thought Daunte was any good.

[Goobylal]

Exactly, K-Gun12. Taking a look at Culpepper's weapons in 2004, he had Moss, Burleson, Robinson, and Wiggins. Outside of McMichael, who is comparable to Wiggins, there's not EVEN a comparison. Add in a new non-Pro Bowl center and not having Linehan and HAVING Mularkey, plus his injury, and it's hard not to cut through the BS and see that Culpepper will more than likely fail this year. And another thing is that there will be HIGH expectations for Miami this year after last year, like there were for the Bills last year after the 2004 season. That added pressure won't help matters any.

[K-Gun12]

Ming...after witnessing Murlarkey's scherades here in Upstate and all the bad calls he made...........I cant say any NFL Offensive player will ever win again while he's on your staff.

I know the guy was great in Pittsburgh, but he and his system really blew in Orchard Park.

[feelthepain]

Please....Culpepper makes terrible decisions both ON and OFF the field. The guy has the arm to fling the ball downfield to a guy like Randy Moss...and hope that he makes another immaculate catch.

Take away Moss and Culpepper becomes mediocre. Granted he has some weapons to use in Miami this season....there wont be anymore excuses for Daunte if he sucks it out in 06 also.

Sorry....never thought Daunte was any good.

How does Culpepper have three prowbowl appereances and the highest compl.% rating in the history of the NFL if he makes terrible decisions?? Where do you people come up with this stuff??

[Goobylal]

If Culpepper had continued his Pro Bowl level play during the 2005 season BEFORE getting hurt, I and others wouldn't be questioning him so much (we'd still have questions about whether he can come back from the injury this soon). But he had a BAD season which seemed to be brought-on by losing Moss, Linehan, and Birk, none of whom will be with the Dolphins this year. That's where we come up with this stuff.

[jmb1099]

The afc east is shaping up this way:
New England has the potential to be on the decline, but with BB and Brady they might be able to make another run.
Miami is the up and commer. Make no mistake, adding Culpepper was a serious upgrade for them over Gus Ferrotte. The wild card is of course the knee and if it will hold up for a season. As far as I'm concerned the real x factor for Miami is Mularkey. There is no amount of words to describe how frustrating this guy can be. You watch the opening two or three drives and you think wow! Then the second half comes around and your looking for a building to jump out of, he really is that frustrating. Saban may be able to real him in, time will tell. The overall Miami QB situation deteriorates quickly after Culpepper. Harrington is not better than Losman Holcomb, or Nall and Lemon is an unknown. Unless Miami has no other choice, Anderson will not start, Houck is too smart for that. That being said if you see Bennie on your line prepare to be angry a lot.
The Jets are in serious rebuild mode with even more questions than the Bills have. Pennington looks ok now, but I highly doubt he finishes the season. Ramsey can be decent, but no Curtis Martin to rely on and key losses on both sides of the ball may propel the Jets to a one or two win season.
The Bills are also in serious rebuild mode with new coach's systems, and some key players. The QB battle is all but over, Losman is starting to show why he was brought to Buffalo. He has some mechanical issues, but that can be fixed. The difference between buffalo and NY this year may come down to the RB position. Magahee looks to be in great form and ready to really work. The other determining factor for the Bills will be Takeo Spikes. If he can come back to 100% the defense will be drastically solidified.
It is my opinion that the division is the Fins to win, but just barely. My dark horse will be Buffalo and my bottom feeder be NY.

[feelthepain]

The overall Miami QB situation deteriorates quickly after Culpepper. Harrington is not better than Losman Holcomb, or Nall and Lemon is an unknown. Unless Miami has no other choice, Anderson will not start, Houck is too smart for that. That being said if you see Bennie on your line prepare to be angry a lot.


Losman,Holcomb and Nall are not better then Harrington. Joey produced in one of the worst O's in the league. The Lions lead the league the last three years in dropped passes, yet Joey still put up over 10,000 yards passing. JP can't buy a 250 yard passing game and he's had atleast one probowl caliber WR to throw too, Joey didn't. Joey had a coulpe of great preseason games so far with us with great decisions no TO and a TD pass. He's also seen the field a whole lot less then JP so far this preseason. Holcomb has been in the league for 12 years and can't even touch Joeys stats and Nall, well he's proven nothing and done nothing to this point.

Joeys best season in 04 in Detroit:

<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR class=bg2><TD>2004</TD><TD>Detroit Lions</TD><TD>16</TD><TD>16</TD><TD>489</TD><TD>274</TD><TD>56.0</TD><TD>3047</TD><TD>6.23</TD><TD>62</TD><TD>19</TD><TD>12</TD><TD>36/196</TD><TD>43</TD><TD>4</TD><TD>77.5

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Joey has over 3000 yards passing 19 TD's and 12 Int's. That was his third season in the league. When has JP even come halfway close to those numbers?? Halfway??? He hasn't!! Holcomb has never played a full season for anyone. And never will. Nall, who's to say what he will do, but he was with Greenbay and they drafted Rogers and dumped Nall. It's not set in stone that Nall isn't anything special, but the guy wouldn't be in Buffalo if he had potential. Greenbay wouldn't have let him go. Maybe he does something good in Buffalo, but as of this point he doesn't even exist. No, not one Bill QB is as good as Joey at this point.

If you think JP is struggling in Buffalo what do you think he would have done in Detroit?? Joey had 3 HC's in five seasons in Detroit. But still had a great 2004 season. Joey gets the blame for what happened in Detroit, but Mooch is just one of 3 coaches in Five years thats no longer in Detroit for a reason.

Saban thinks enough of Joeys ability that he's our backup and we had to trade to get him. Don't fall into the news from Detroit simply because you want Joey to suck because he's a Dolphin. It's OK to give a division rival credit for adding depth and talent. Joey doesn't get over 3000 yards passing with 19 tds and 12 int's without talent. You think JP has talent and he's never even come close to anything resembling those numbers, so I'm sure since you see potential in JP it's not something you can't see in others. The Bill fans are in a tough spot. They have to get respect with a young QB that to this has done nothing in the league. It's a tough spot for you guy's, however the fins atleast have some stats on their side to base their hopes on. No QB on your roster has stats to speak of, nothing to build off of, so how can you conclude your QB's are better with nothing to back up what you "THINK"??? You're in a tough spot you have to wait and see who pans out before you can make a claim of anything.

Once again I'm not trahing the Bills or their QB's I'm basing everything off stats and facts, because at this point in the season thats all we can do. Till JP actually proves a a starting QB and lets face it he hasn't even been able to clearly seperate himself from Holcomb and Nall, then he's nothing special. Could he be a probowler at seasons end?? Sure, he has the athletic ability and the arm to be, but his problems are mental. Untill he overcomes that he's no better then the worst QB on your roster. You have no case for QB till someone on you team proves it. Joey and Daunte have proven they can play at this level.

[feelthepain]

If Culpepper had continued his Pro Bowl level play during the 2005 season BEFORE getting hurt, I and others wouldn't be questioning him so much (we'd still have questions about whether he can come back from the injury this soon). But he had a BAD season which seemed to be brought-on by losing Moss, Linehan, and Birk, none of whom will be with the Dolphins this year. That's where we come up with this stuff.


So his 6 games in 05 count towards his ability to play QB,but his six seasons before 05 don't count because you say so?? Gee, if I didn't know any better I'd swear you were looking for reason to knock Daunte because you don't want to see him succeed in Miami. It makes a lot of sense to ignore 96 games of work so you can focus on 6 games. If I were in denial thats how I'd go about it too.

[jmb1099]

Losman,Holcomb and Nall are not better then Harrington. Joey produced in one of the worst O's in the league. The Lions lead the league the last three years in dropped passes, yet Joey still put up over 10,000 yards passing. JP can't buy a 250 yard passing game and he's had atleast one probowl caliber WR to throw too, Joey didn't. Joey had a coulpe of great preseason games so far with us with great decisions no TO and a TD pass. He's also seen the field a whole lot less then JP so far this preseason. Holcomb has been in the league for 12 years and can't even touch Joeys stats and Nall, well he's proven nothing and done nothing to this point.

Joeys best season in 04 in Detroit:

<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR class=bg2><TD>2004</TD><TD>Detroit Lions</TD><TD>16</TD><TD>16</TD><TD>489</TD><TD>274</TD><TD>56.0</TD><TD>3047</TD><TD>6.23</TD><TD>62</TD><TD>19</TD><TD>12</TD><TD>36/196</TD><TD>43</TD><TD>4</TD><TD>77.5
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Joey has over 3000 yards passing 19 TD's and 12 Int's. That was his third season in the league. When has JP even come halfway close to those numbers?? Halfway??? He hasn't!! Holcomb has never played a full season for anyone. And never will. Nall, who's to say what he will do, but he was with Greenbay and they drafted Rogers and dumped Nall. It's not set in stone that Nall isn't anything special, but the guy wouldn't be in Buffalo if he had potential. Greenbay wouldn't have let him go. Maybe he does something good in Buffalo, but as of this point he doesn't even exist. No, not one Bill QB is as good as Joey at this point.

If you think JP is struggling in Buffalo what do you think he would have done in Detroit?? Joey had 3 HC's in five seasons in Detroit. But still had a great 2004 season. Joey gets the blame for what happened in Detroit, but Mooch is just one of 4 coaches in Five years thats no longer in Detroit for a reason.

Saban thinks enough of Joeys ability that he's our backup and we had to trade to get him. Don't fall into the news from Detroit simply because you want Joey to suck because he's a Dolphin. It's OK to give a division rival credit for adding depth and talent. Joey doesn't get over 3000 yards passing with 19 tds and 12 int's without talent. You think JP has talent and he's never even come close to anything resembling those numbers, so I'm sure since you see potential in JP it's not something you can't see in others. The Bill fans are in a tough spot. They have to get respect with a young QB that to this has done nothing in the league. It's a tough spot for you guy's, however the fins atleast have some stats on their side to base their hopes on. No QB on your roster has stats to speak of, nothing to build off of, so how can you conclude your QB's are better with nothing to back up what you "THINK"??? You're in a tough spot you have to wait and see who pans out before you can make a claim of anything.

Once again I'm not trahing the Bills or their QB's I'm basing everything off stats and facts, because at this point in the season thats all we can do. Till JP actually proves a a starting QB and lets face it he hasn't even been able to clearly seperate himself from Holcomb and Nall, then he's nothing special. Could he be a probowler at seasons end?? Sure, he has the athletic ability and the arm to be, but his problems are mental. Untill he overcomes that he's no better then the worst QB on your roster. You have no case for QB till someone on you team proves it. Joey and Daunte have proven they can play at this level.
If you're going to use the poor conditions Harrington had to work with than you have to also acknowledge the poor conditions Losman also had to work with. This I will admit puts you in a difficult spot since the dolphins now own two of those poor conditions. I think Miami can be Harrington's second chance, but so far he hasn't produced much of anything so i wouldn't say he's proven anything up to this point. The stats you posted represent four years of on field experience, Losman has only eight games. Holcomb may never finish a season for any team, but he manages a game better than Harrington at this point. I troll the Fin boards from time to time, and most know you're season rests on the knee of Culpepper. Harrington is a huge question mark which isn't to say we don't have huge questions of our own. Losman's issues should be worked out, if not Levy saw something in Nall he liked. The last Qb Levy had a big influence in picking didn't do too badly as I recall.

[feelthepain]

If you're going to use the poor conditions Harrington had to work with than you have to also acknowledge the poor conditions Losman also had to work with. This I will admit puts you in a difficult spot since the dolphins now own two of those poor conditions. I think Miami can be Harrington's second chance, but so far he hasn't produced much of anything so i wouldn't say he's proven anything up to this point. The stats you posted represent four years of on field experience, Losman has only eight games. Holcomb may never finish a season for any team, but he manages a game better than Harrington at this point. I troll the Fin boards from time to time, and most know you're season rests on the knee of Culpepper. Harrington is a huge question mark which isn't to say we don't have huge questions of our own. Losman's issues should be worked out, if not Levy saw something in Nall he liked. The last Qb Levy had a big influence in picking didn't do too badly as I recall.


Well since all we have to work with is what players have done, it's a no brainer to say no QB on the Bills roster is better then Joey. He has the passing yards and the most experience of the four QB's we are talking about. Harrington, Losman, Holcomb and Nall. Joey also has at least one full season of very good success. None of the QB's on the Bills roster has that. This isn't about knocking the Bills QB's it's about qaulity of QB's on each team. Miami has more quality in both starting and backup. Like I said JP could break out this year, but to this point he hasn't. 8 games started going into his third season isn't good. There should be no more excuses, if he doesn't start every game this year and atleast be competetive every week no matter the final score then the Bills have a decision to make at the QB position.

[jmb1099]

Well since all we have to work with is what players have done, it's a no brainer to say no QB on the Bills roster is better then Joey. He has the passing yards and the most experience of the four QB's we are talking about. Harrington, Losman, Holcomb and Nall. Joey also has at least one full season of very good success. None of the QB's on the Bills roster has that. This isn't about knocking the Bills QB's it's about qaulity of QB's on each team. Miami has more quality in both starting and backup. Like I said JP could break out this year, but to this point he hasn't. 8 games started going into his third season isn't good. There should be no more excuses, if he doesn't start every game this year and atleast be competetive every week no matter the final score then the Bills have a decision to make at the QB position.

I hear what you're saying about the stats and I hope I haven't just come across as a Miami basher. I agree that Losman needs to step it up this year, no argument there. All I can really say is that if I was a Miami fan Pepper going down and being replaced by Harrington would make me ill. That being said Losman gong down to be replaced by Holcomb also makes me ill so there it is. nall better step it up to number 2.

[Goobylal]

Please give it UP with the Harrington has experience thing. The ONLY thing he's proven over his 50+ starts is that he's a lousy QB. What's even funnier is you making excuses for his lousy play based on his team, yet you refuse to do the same for Losman. Gee, what a shock!

As for Culpepper, yes sorry but his 7 lousy games last year without some key people DOES somewhat erase his previous 6 years. Moss and Birk are Pro Bowl/All Pro caliber players, while Linehan was a great OC. In Miami he has no one CLOSE to the ability of either player, and as I've said, Mularkey is a far cry from Linehan. Then there's the injury. Again I don't know HOW many ways I can tell you that IF Culpepper returns to pre-2005 form, the Dols will be good, but he's got a lot of obstacles in his way. And if he does NOT return to pre-2005 form, the Dols have actually taken a step BACKWARDS at the QB position.

The other stuff I mentioned as to why Miami got worse over the off-season still stands. As I said, only the Bills improved themselves over the off-season, at least on-paper. And while we'll have to see how the games actually play-out, the discussion was how has each AFC East team fared this past off-season ON-PAPER.

[Topdog]

Only the coaches and JP and Reed know what happened on that pick. I watched the replay on tape this morning and Josh looked confused ...like he didn't know which way to make his cut :idunno: Not saying it was Josh's fault but interceptions are rarely all the fault of the QB

Good piont Phil, if I were to wiegh in I would guess tht the recievers are apt to F**k up the Play than the QB! Not saying that their Dumber ................ but most likely!



Sorry if I stepped on their Toes!

[YardRat]

Good piont Phil, if I were to wiegh in I would guess tht the recievers are apt to F**k up the Play than the QB! Not saying that their Dumber ................ but most likely!


How many times do I have to post this?? BOTH JP AND JAURON ADMITTED IN THEIR POST GAME INTERVIEWS THAT THE PICK WAS JP'S FAULT.

[Topdog]

How many times do I have to post this?? BOTH JP AND JAURON ADMITTED IN THEIR POST GAME INTERVIEWS THAT THE PICK WAS JP'S FAULT.

That was one play, I was speaking more in general terms.

[Goobylal]

How many times do I have to post this?? BOTH JP AND JAURON ADMITTED IN THEIR POST GAME INTERVIEWS THAT THE PICK WAS JP'S FAULT.
JP and Jauron have reasons to lie. Marshall Faulk, who analyzed the play on the NFL Network, who knows practically everything about Fairchild's offense since he used to play in it, AND who has no reason to lie, said that the INT was JR's fault. Given the choice between the 2, I'd take the guy with no reason to lie over the guys WITH a reason to lie.

[YardRat]

What would JP and Jauron have to gain by 'lying'?

[PcA125]

Ooops, almost forgot who I was posting with...a Bill fan. It explains everything. The Fins have no QB and the Bills do, the Fins need a backup to Ronnie and the Bills don't with Willis. The Fins have a former Bill HC as their new OC so he automatically sucks, Bennie Anderson played with the Bills one season on one of the worst lines in football, but it's Bennie that sucks ....cause he's now a fin and the rest of the porbowl oline in Buffalo will block for your probowl QB JP Losman!! Got it!!

JP Losman- 8 games started:233-116= 49.6 Pct 8 TD's 9 int's QB rating of 63.5

Kelley holcomb-23 games started: 810-523 64.6 Pct 37 TD's 37 int's 79.9 QB rating

Craig Nall-0 games started: 33-23 69.7 Pct:4 TD's 0 int's 139.4 QB rating

Willis McGahee- 2005 stats= 15 games started: 325 att-1247 yards avg.3.8 YPC. 5 td'S.


Daunte Culpepper-80 games started:2607-1678 64.4 Pct. 135 TD's 86 int's QB rating of 91.5

Joey Harrington-55 games started:1802-986 54.7 Pct 60 TD's 63 int's QB rating of 68.1

Cleo Lemon- No stats

Ronnie Brown-2005 stats=14 games started 207-907 avg 4.4 YPC 4 td'S.

Gee sure looks like you're right!!! The Bills are stacked!! NOT!!! Joeys numbers are far better then any QB you have on your roster, I won't eve mention Daunte because lets face it he's a probowl QB with a rocket for an arm and and bigger then most LB's and some DT's. Ronie puet up better numbers then Willis with less games under his belt and Ricky Williams to share the laod. It's Ronnies team now and he's looking forward to running over people. BTW Willis is in far more Danger of going down before Ronnie becaus of his knee injury. Culpeppers knee won't get the same work as Willis's knee because Willis is a RB abd Daunte a QB so if Willis can run on his knee Daunte wll be fine on his.


BTW incase you can't add, the Bills QB's have a grand total of 31 starts 49 TD's 46 int's and and avg. QB ranking of 71.7 While the fins have 135 starts 195 TD's 149 int's and an AVG. QB rating of 79.8. considering the fins QB's have so many more starts then the Bills QB's those numbers are staggering!!! Yeah Miami's QB's suck!!! BTW, I din't add in rushing yards for the QB's if I had, your QB's would be way way way behind in that category too. Good luck this year, with your crop of probowl QB's!!
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You come onto the bills boards and you are complaining about posting with a bills fan? :insane:

Culpepper sucked before he got hurt last year... no ands ifs or buts about it.

Mularky sucks... Bills fans saw what plays he called last year, and trust me... it wasnt pretty.

The truth is that nobody knows whats gonna happen before it does. Wait till we play and then people can talk.

[Goobylal]

What would JP and Jauron have to gain by 'lying'?
Maybe JR has a confidence issue (which is no stretch, given his game performances) and they didn't want to pile-on him in the national media? In any case, they have more to gain by lying than Faulk does, since Faulk stands to gain absolutely NOTHING by pinning the blame on JR versus JP. Unless he's friends with JP and/or enemies with JR, unbeknownst to us.

And what Faulk said about JR being responsible for the INT because he didn't make his cut sooner is easily verifiable by looking at the tape. JR looked confused and hesistated, making JP have to hold the ball longer and thus giving the DB more time to react.

And in any case, I'd rather JP make that mistake in pre-season and learn from it. Actually on the next drive, they used that DB's (Keiwan Ratliff) aggressiveness against him when he bit on a hitch by Evans and got toasted for the TD.

[feelthepain]

I hear what you're saying about the stats and I hope I haven't just come across as a Miami basher. I agree that Losman needs to step it up this year, no argument there. All I can really say is that if I was a Miami fan Pepper going down and being replaced by Harrington would make me ill. That being said Losman gong down to be replaced by Holcomb also makes me ill so there it is. nall better step it up to number 2.


No I don't think you're bashing the fins, you're entitled to your opinion. As for JP we agree. I don't think the Bills are satisfied with their QB situation, but you can only fix so many things at a time. Give them another season or two and the QB situation in Buffalo will improve. Especially with the return of Marv.

[feelthepain]

You come onto the bills boards and you are complaining about posting with a bills fan? :insane:

Culpepper sucked before he got hurt last year... no ands ifs or buts about it.

Mularky sucks... Bills fans saw what plays he called last year, and trust me... it wasnt pretty.

The truth is that nobody knows whats gonna happen before it does. Wait till we play and then people can talk.

Do you not see a difference between HC and OC?? In Buffalo Mularkey was what?? Say it with me.....H e a d C o a c h! In Miami Mularkey is what??? Comon Billy, say it with me......O f f e n s i v e C o o r d i n a t o r!!! Do you see the difference?? Do you know as a HC you have the final say in whats being run?? Do you know Miami's HC is Nick Saban, and not Mike Mularkey??
Do you know Miami is Miami and Buffalo is Buffalo?? Do you know that Miami has different players then Buffalo?? Do you know Miami is in Florida and Buffalo is in Upstate NY?? Do you know they are two different cities in two different states and two different teams??? I don't think you do.

We have different personell, different coaching and different philosophies?? Mularkey had success in Pittsburgh before he went to Buffalo. But because Bill fans think everyone that doesn't succeed in Buffalo it's always that individuals fault. Like everyone else on the Bills was a superstar and the players and coaches that leave are the only ones holding the Bills back. I love the way some of you think, if your new to Buffalo your talent is unmatched in the league, but if you're leaving Buffalo you're the worst player or coach on the planet especially if you go to a division rival. Funny how Bill fans philosophy works.

[Goobylal]

Hey genius, in Buffalo last year, Mularkey was the OC AS WELL, after the 4th game of the season. So he was the Einstein calling those great passing plays in the 4th quarter of the Miami game, when running the ball THE WHOLE QUARTER would have led to what was going to be a blowout victory.

[feelthepain]

Hey genius, in Buffalo last year, Mularkey was the OC AS WELL, after the 4th game of the season. So he was the Einstein calling those great passing plays in the 4th quarter of the Miami game, when running the ball THE WHOLE QUARTER would have led to what was going to be a blowout victory.

Hey Genius if what Mularkey is doing in Miami isn't working, Saban will fix it. He did it to Linehan last year!! Nobody was there to fix it in Buffalo, Miami doesn't have that problem. It's like you Bill fans refuse to understand we have a HC that's name isn't Mike Mularkey. Mike had far more responsibility as a HC then he does as an OC leaving him time to spend with the O,it should make his life better. I also think Miami has far more talent for Mularkey to work with and a much better coaching staff around him in Miami.

He was in Buffalo all of two seasons, one winning one losing. Yet you people act like he was there for 5 long years of losing. Everything is the same with you people, just because someone doesn't have success in Buffalo it's guaranteed (in your minds only) they will fail everywhere else. The Bills haven't been a good team since the early 90's but it's always everyone that leaves the team fault. Mularkey had Success in Pittsburgh and one year in Buffalo, that leaves just one bad season in Buffalo and you act like the guy has years and years of failure.

Funny how you Bill fans have optimism when Juron came to Buffalo becuse (you think) he's an improvement over Mike Mularkey even though he has a worse record then Mularkey's as a HC. But because you're a Bill fan you're allowed to think he's an imporvment...I'm guessing because he wasn't with Buffalo last year and then moved on so he will have a chance in Buffalo now, it's only when people leave Buffalo that they won't succeed anywhere else.
I didn't realize Buffalo was so great that when players and coaches leave, they leave the best situation in all of Football.

[Goobylal]

You're right that Bennie Anderson wasn't the only bad starting OL on the Bills last year: the Bills ALSO dumped Trey Teague and Mike Williams. Teague is out with an injury and Mike Williams is a longshot to make the Jags' roster as a backup. And like with Anderson, the Bills have better players to replace them. You see teams don't just blindly release good players with low cap numbers, and Anderson has not only been struggling in the Miami heat, he's also been playing lousy on gameday. Your blind faith in Houck is just that and we'll SEE just how good these players who are currently backups to Anderson are.

Oh and BTW, Joe Toledo injured his knee and is out indefinitely. So much for HIM.

[feelthepain]

You're right that Bennie Anderson wasn't the only bad starting OL on the Bills last year: the Bills ALSO dumped Trey Teague and Mike Williams. Teague is out with an injury and Mike Williams is a longshot to make the Jags' roster as a backup. And like with Anderson, the Bills have better players to replace them. You see teams don't just blindly release good players with low cap numbers, and Anderson has not only been struggling in the Miami heat, he's also been playing lousy on gameday. Your blind faith in Houck is just that and we'll SEE just how good these players who are currently backups to Anderson are.

Oh and BTW, Joe Toledo injured his knee and is out indefinitely. So much for HIM.

Still two weeks of camp and Anderson had a real nice game week 1 against Jacksonville. Here is a link to a breakdown of how he played against Jacksonville. A team with a stout D that went 12-4 last year, Bennie owned his man as you will read.

http://www.finheaven.com/boardvb2/showthread.php?t=154145

Sorry to disappoint your bias opinion of a former Bill, but as you can see Bennie didn't struggle. More wishful thinking from a Bias Bill fan, if he sucks in Buffalo he can't play, yada yada yada, blah blah blah. From listening to you preseason matters, this whole thing with Bennie doesn't mean squat because it's preseason and nothing is like it is in regular season, so stats and wins mean nothing. You seem to live and die by preseason, typicall from someone that doesn't know squat about profootball, but your gums are flapping anyways. I guess the thumping by the Bengals was a disguse to lure unsuspecting teams into your trap of dominance huh?? I'm sure you loaded with excuses for that game.

And Toledo's injury isn't serious.

[Goobylal]

Check out his performance against the Bucs.