In Spite of...

[Yasgur's Farm]

A horrible O-line, JP rates the following among NFL starters...

1415 passing yards - 21st - 11 starters ahave thrown for less.
61.3% completion average - 22nd - 10 starters have a lower average.
80.2 passer rating - 18th - 14 starters have a lower rating.
7 touchdowns - 22nd - 10 starters have thrown fewer.
6 interceptions - 11th - 21 starters have thrown more.

He's accomplished all this in spite of...
Only 16 career starts.
3 QB's being sacked more times.
31 QB's having more attempts or more attempts per game.

Can you continue to say he's not an NFL starting QB when there are consistantly 10, 11, 21 other NFL starters behind him in every category?

How about that for a taste of reallity?

[BidsJr]

A horrible O-line, JP rates the following among NFL starters...

1415 passing yards - 21st - 11 starters ahave thrown for less.
61.3% completion average - 22nd - 10 starters have a lower average.
80.2 passer rating - 18th - 14 starters have a lower rating.
7 touchdowns - 22nd - 10 starters have thrown fewer.
6 interceptions - 11th - 21 starters have thrown more.

He's accomplished all this in spite of...
Only 16 career starts.
3 QB's being sacked more times.
31 QB's having more attempts or more attempts per game.

Can you continue to say he's not an NFL starting QB when there are consistantly 10, 11, 21 other NFL starters behind him in every category?

How about that for a taste of reallity?

I'm not a JP hater but how long till the RJ comparisons come.....'

3....2.....1.....

[Mr. Miyagi]

3....2.....1.....
Flutie!

[PECKERWOOD]

A horrible O-line, JP rates the following among NFL starters...

1415 passing yards - 21st - 11 starters ahave thrown for less.
61.3% completion average - 22nd - 10 starters have a lower average.
80.2 passer rating - 18th - 14 starters have a lower rating.
7 touchdowns - 22nd - 10 starters have thrown fewer.
6 interceptions - 11th - 21 starters have thrown more.

He's accomplished all this in spite of...
Only 16 career starts.
3 QB's being sacked more times.
31 QB's having more attempts or more attempts per game.

Can you continue to say he's not an NFL starting QB when there are consistantly 10, 11, 21 other NFL starters behind him in every category?

How about that for a taste of reallity?

I wasnt completely satisfied with JP's performance yesterday afternoon, but he did manage the game effectively. I remember making a huge post about resiliency. JP showed that.. After he was getting booed by his own fans ( me included.. ) he threw a bomb to Lee Evans. I respect that. He still deserves the whole season in my book, and if he continues to not lose the football game, next season also.

[Drive 4 Five]

Excellent point DRAZ. It is so difficult not to get frustrated with some of the posts you see here, even after a win where your QB didn't turn the ball over, and despite struggling for most of the game, being hit hard and often, manages to put his team back into the lead in the 4th Qtr. on an impressive throw to Evans with pressure in his face (as usual). But for the multitudes here, I guess it just isn't good enough.

[OpIv37]

I wasnt completely satisfied with JP's performance yesterday afternoon, but he did manage the game effectively. I remember making a huge post about resiliency. JP showed that.. After he was getting booed by his own fans ( me included.. ) he threw a bomb to Lee Evans. I respect that. He still deserves the whole season in my book, and if he continues to not lose the football game, next season also.


Excellent point DRAZ. It is so difficult not to get frustrated with some of the posts you see here, even after a win where your QB didn't turn the ball over, and despite struggling for most of the game, being hit hard and often, manages to put his team back into the lead in the 4th Qtr. on an impressive throw to Evans with pressure in his face (as usual). But for the multitudes here, I guess it just isn't good enough.


I don't know what game you 2 were watching but JP UNDERTHREW that TD pass to Evans. The only reason it worked is because the coverage was so blown that Evans was able to slow down for the ball and still make the TD. Everyone is giving JP so much credit for what was a huge defensive mistake.

Also, draz is missing the point. Who cares how JP's stats measure up to the rest of the league? The reason I'm concerned about him is because he doesn't help us win games and he still makes a lot of the same mistakes he made last year. This team isn't good enough for the "manage the game" QB.

The question we're trying to answer is "Is JP the QB of the future for the Buffalo Bills?" Statistical comparisons alone aren't going to answer that question.

[PECKERWOOD]

I don't know what game you 2 were watching but JP UNDERTHREW that TD pass to Evans. The only reason it worked is because the coverage was so blown that Evans was able to slow down for the ball and still make the TD. Everyone is giving JP so much credit for what was a huge defensive mistake.

Also, draz is missing the point. Who cares how JP's stats measure up to the rest of the league? The reason I'm concerned about him is because he doesn't help us win games and he still makes a lot of the same mistakes he made last year. This team isn't good enough for the "manage the game" QB.

The question we're trying to answer is "Is JP the QB of the future for the Buffalo Bills?" Statistical comparisons alone aren't going to answer that question.

There is no question it was underthrown, but he was hit while throwing the football!! That is a good sign, he threw the football and made the play, knowing damn well he was going to get hit very hard!

[ICE74129]

A horrible O-line, JP rates the following among NFL starters...

1415 passing yards - 21st - 11 starters ahave thrown for less.
61.3% completion average - 22nd - 10 starters have a lower average.
80.2 passer rating - 18th - 14 starters have a lower rating.
7 touchdowns - 22nd - 10 starters have thrown fewer.
6 interceptions - 11th - 21 starters have thrown more.

He's accomplished all this in spite of...
Only 16 career starts.
3 QB's being sacked more times.
31 QB's having more attempts or more attempts per game.

Can you continue to say he's not an NFL starting QB when there are consistantly 10, 11, 21 other NFL starters behind him in every category?

How about that for a taste of reallity?

Oh and one more thing...He has a better record than at least 9 other starting QB's in this league this year....including Ben Rothlesburger.

[Wraith]

I don't know what game you 2 were watching but JP UNDERTHREW that TD pass to Evans. The only reason it worked is because the coverage was so blown that Evans was able to slow down for the ball and still make the TD. Everyone is giving JP so much credit for what was a huge defensive mistake.

Also, draz is missing the point. Who cares how JP's stats measure up to the rest of the league? The reason I'm concerned about him is because he doesn't help us win games and he still makes a lot of the same mistakes he made last year. This team isn't good enough for the "manage the game" QB.

The question we're trying to answer is "Is JP the QB of the future for the Buffalo Bills?" Statistical comparisons alone aren't going to answer that question.

Evans caught the ball on the four yard line. In order to hit Evans in stride Losman would have needed to throw the ball out the back of the endzone. Evans was wide open, Losman did the smart thing: Not trying to get too cute when the receiver is 15 yards from the nearest DB and you've got a defensive lineman bearing down on you. Lay the ball out there, give your receiver the chance to make the play, do not over throw him or throw it out of bounds, and get the ball out of your hands before you get hit.

The "under thrown" argument on this play is so bogus it's not even funny. Gee, Favre's TD pass to Drive was kind of weak because if the linebacker had stepped into the throwing lane and disrupted the quick slant. Oh wait, there was no linebacker. Gee, Losman's TD pass to Evans was pretty bad because if there was a defensive back in range he might have been able to break up the play. Oh wait, there was no defensive back.

Yeah, the ball was slightly under thrown. And yeah, he was hit in the chest during his throwing motion. And oh yeah, Losman threw the ball 40 yards in the air off his back foot while getting leveled. The fact that people here can find fault with the one brilliant positive from the QB all day is incredible, and simply assinine.

[Bling]

A horrible O-line, JP rates the following among NFL starters...

1415 passing yards - 21st - 11 starters ahave thrown for less.
61.3% completion average - 22nd - 10 starters have a lower average.
80.2 passer rating - 18th - 14 starters have a lower rating.
7 touchdowns - 22nd - 10 starters have thrown fewer.
6 interceptions - 11th - 21 starters have thrown more.

He's accomplished all this in spite of...
Only 16 career starts.
3 QB's being sacked more times.
31 QB's having more attempts or more attempts per game.

Can you continue to say he's not an NFL starting QB when there are consistantly 10, 11, 21 other NFL starters behind him in every category?

How about that for a taste of reallity?

Just out of curiousity. Do you consider that Miami has had 2 starters this year? Dallas has had 2? Jacksonville has had 2? Oakland has had 2? Tennessee has had 2? If you combine Harrington and Culpepper's yards together into one player, you have 10 starters with less than JP. I can't tell you Dallas, Jax, Oakland, Tenn, etc., but that is a big variable.


That's why I always analyze players on how well they throw, do they answer when other team's score on them, how much of a leader they are, and which one always puts his team in the best chance to win.


Now if you want to analyze his progress, you can compare him to Eli Manning, Ben Roeth and Phil Rivers. They've all had the same amount of years in the league, and Phil has had less starts.

[Pinkerton Security]

Just out of curiousity. Do you consider that Miami has had 2 starters this year? Dallas has had 2? Jacksonville has had 2? Oakland has had 2? Tennessee has had 2? If you combine Harrington and Culpepper's yards together into one player, you have 10 starters with less than JP. I can't tell you Dallas, Jax, Oakland, Tenn, etc., but that is a big variable.


That's why I always analyze players on how well they throw, do they answer when other team's score on them, how much of a leader they are, and which one always puts his team in the best chance to win.


Now if you want to analyze his progress, you can compare him to Eli Manning, Ben Roeth and Phil Rivers. They've all had the same amount of years in the league, and Phil has had less starts.

I partly agree, but in order to compare his progress to that of those other QB's, you need to compare the situations. Eli Manning has arguably the best RB in the NFL, as does Rivers, and Parker is no sloutch in Pburgh. Also, compare the tight ends on each team....How does Royal stack up against studs Shockey, Gates, and a very capable Heath Miller? And lets now talk coaching....how does Dicky-poo compare to Cowher, Coughlin and Schottenheimer.....




does it now seem fair to compare JP to those QB's? not to mention the defenses of these other teams can actually stop the run once in a while...


JP has few weapons, and we all know it. and when coaches are coming in and out in what is in essense the middle-end of his "first season"....its like apples and oranges



as far as leadership and other intangibles, i do agree he doesnt have them...yet. will he improve them? i hope so. im optimistic enough about JP's abilities and pessimistic enough about the overall talent of our team to sit back and wait, at least for this year.

[OpIv37]

Evans caught the ball on the four yard line. In order to hit Evans in stride Losman would have needed to throw the ball out the back of the endzone. Evans was wide open, Losman did the smart thing: Not trying to get too cute when the receiver is 15 yards from the nearest DB and you've got a defensive lineman bearing down on you. Lay the ball out there, give your receiver the chance to make the play, do not over throw him or throw it out of bounds, and get the ball out of your hands before you get hit.

The "under thrown" argument on this play is so bogus it's not even funny. Gee, Favre's TD pass to Drive was kind of weak because if the linebacker had stepped into the throwing lane and disrupted the quick slant. Oh wait, there was no linebacker. Gee, Losman's TD pass to Evans was pretty bad because if there was a defensive back in range he might have been able to break up the play. Oh wait, there was no defensive back.

Yeah, the ball was slightly under thrown. And yeah, he was hit in the chest during his throwing motion. And oh yeah, Losman threw the ball 40 yards in the air off his back foot while getting leveled. The fact that people here can find fault with the one brilliant positive from the QB all day is incredible, and simply assinine.

This post is ridiculous.

First, I didn't realize Evans is 12 feet tall and faster than a cheetah, because that's what it would take for two strides to get him from the 4 through the back of the endzone in split-second difference between an underthrown ball and a ball that hit him in stride.

Second, there was another play where Evans had his man beat (although not as bad as on this play), Losman underthrew the ball and the defender was able to make a play on it. If there was a defender anywhere within 5 yards of Evans on that play, it would have been broken up. The ONLY reason JP got away with that pass was because GB was confused and completely blew the coverage.

So, if you want to find ridiculous reasons to give JP credit for GB's mistake, go right ahead. You're only fooling yourself. If this is Losman's "brilliant positive", we're in deep ****.

[Earthquake Enyart]

Mike Vick is 21st in passer rating. JP better than him?

[Wraith]

This post is ridiculous.

First, I didn't realize Evans is 12 feet tall and faster than a cheetah, because that's what it would take for two strides to get him from the 4 through the back of the endzone in split-second difference between an underthrown ball and a ball that hit him in stride.

Second, there was another play where Evans had his man beat (although not as bad as on this play), Losman underthrew the ball and the defender was able to make a play on it. If there was a defender anywhere within 5 yards of Evans on that play, it would have been broken up. The ONLY reason JP got away with that pass was because GB was confused and completely blew the coverage.

So, if you want to find ridiculous reasons to give JP credit for GB's mistake, go right ahead. You're only fooling yourself. If this is Losman's "brilliant positive", we're in deep ****.

This play happened DIRECTLY in front of me yesterday. The defender made up about 15 to 20 yards while the ball was in the air, so why do you find it so difficult that Evans could've also? Remember, he was at an almost complete stop. Why risk hitting the receiver in stride in the rear half of the end zone (at best) on a pretty pass when lobbing it up at the goal line would work just fine?

The other play you refer to is a totally different set of circumstances. It was a bad throw, Losman double clutched, Evans was less open and there was a safety coming over the top. It was a bad throw and not the greatest effort from the receiver. What does that have to do with the touch down?

[OpIv37]

This play happened DIRECTLY in front of me yesterday. The defender made up about 15 to 20 yards while the ball was in the air, so why do you find it so difficult that Evans could've also? Remember, he was at an almost complete stop. Why risk hitting the receiver in stride in the rear half of the end zone (at best) on a pretty pass when lobbing it up at the goal line would work just fine?

The other play you refer to is a totally different set of circumstances. It was a bad throw, Losman double clutched, Evans was less open and there was a safety coming over the top. It was a bad throw and not the greatest effort from the receiver. What does that have to do with the touch down?

You answered your own question


The defender made up about 15 to 20 yards while the ball was in the air,

if the defender was within 15 to 20 yards of Evans like he was SUPPOSED to be, he would have had a lot less space to make up and would have knocked that ball away when Evans slowed down (just like on the other play I described). Solution: don't make your receivers slow down.

We got away with it this time because the defender was so far out of position. But 99 times out of 100 an NFL CB will be close enough to make a play on the ball in that situation.

The only reason Losman gets props on that play is for recognizing the blown coverage and knowing that he could safely throw it to that spot even if he couldn't step into his throw (assuming that he DID know- if he didn't that was an incredibly stupid play, but we'll never know for sure).

[justasportsfan]

This post is ridiculous.

First, I didn't realize Evans is 12 feet tall and faster than a cheetah, because that's what it would take for two strides to get him from the 4 through the back of the endzone in split-second difference between an underthrown ball and a ball that hit him in stride.

Second, there was another play where Evans had his man beat (although not as bad as on this play), Losman underthrew the ball and the defender was able to make a play on it. If there was a defender anywhere within 5 yards of Evans on that play, it would have been broken up. The ONLY reason JP got away with that pass was because GB was confused and completely blew the coverage.

So, if you want to find ridiculous reasons to give JP credit for GB's mistake, go right ahead. You're only fooling yourself. If this is Losman's "brilliant positive", we're in deep ****.

Great, we score a TD and people have a problem about how we scored. I don't give a rats ass about anything but the result.

[Wraith]

You answered your own question



if the defender was within 15 to 20 yards of Evans like he was SUPPOSED to be, he would have had a lot less space to make up and would have knocked that ball away when Evans slowed down (just like on the other play I described). Solution: don't make your receivers slow down.

We got away with it this time because the defender was so far out of position. But 99 times out of 100 an NFL CB will be close enough to make a play on the ball in that situation.

Yeah that argument would work fine if there was a defender. But as I said in my first post that you called ridiculous:

There was NO defender in that zone.

Your proposed solution is to a problem that did not exist. The nearest defender, despite making up ground, did not get within 5 yards of the receiver and Evans coasted easily the last two steps.

[OpIv37]

Yeah that argument would work fine if there was a defender. But as I said in my first post that you called ridiculous:

There was NO defender in that zone.

Your proposed solution is to a problem that did not exist. The nearest defender, despite making up ground, did not get within 5 yards of the receiver and Evans coasted easily the last two steps.

to a problem that didn't exist on that particular play, but does most of the time. JP threw a bad pass and he got lucky.

[OpIv37]

Great, we score a TD and people have a problem about how we scored. I don't give a rats ass about anything but the result.

Everyone's giving JP credit that he doesn't deserve for that play. The result of the play was good, yes- but to say that it shows JP is improving or that it vindicates his performance for the rest of the day is just ignorant. He got away with one- it worked out well for us. That still doesn't mean JP got it right.

[Wraith]

The only reason Losman gets props on that play is for recognizing the blown coverage and knowing that he could safely throw it to that spot even if he couldn't step into his throw (assuming that he DID know- if he didn't that was an incredibly stupid play, but we'll never know for sure).

This is exactly why there should be nobody complaining. I would add in the fact that he didn't bail on the throw even though he had defender about to drill him in plain sight. I do not think anyone here is claiming it was a beautiful pass.

It was a good decision, a gutsy move, and perfectly adequate throw....and people are complaining.

[OpIv37]

This is exactly why there should be nobody complaining. I would add in the fact that he didn't bail on the throw even though he had defender about to drill him in plain sight. I do not think anyone here is claiming it was a beautiful pass.

It was a good decision, a gutsy move, and perfectly adequate throw....and people are complaining.

it was gutsy, it may have been a good decision- we don't know that for sure, and it was only adequate because the defender was out of position. If the defender was in position, it wouldn't have been adequate at all.

I love it how people say JP was missing balls all day because the OL was so bad and because he was getting hit all day, but for some reason they think that while he was getting hit on this play he was still able to see that Evans was wide open. If that's the case, why wasn't he able to do that on any other play?

[Wraith]

I love it how people say JP was missing balls all day because the OL was so bad and because he was getting hit all day, but for some reason they think that while he was getting hit on this play he was still able to see that Evans was wide open. If that's the case, why wasn't he able to do that on any other play?

Please point to where I said this.

[OpIv37]

Please point to where I said this.

you said that when he threw the ball, he was throwing off his back foot and he got hit in the chest, but still said he put the ball where he should have.

Well if he did it on that play, why didn't he do it on any of the other plays where he was getting hit?

[Romes]

Everyone's giving JP credit that he doesn't deserve for that play. The result of the play was good, yes- but to say that it shows JP is improving or that it vindicates his performance for the rest of the day is just ignorant. He got away with one- it worked out well for us. That still doesn't mean JP got it right.

What did JP get away with?

It was underthrown because he got hit.

He held on to the ball because the play was an out and up that took time to develop. JP makes a small pump enough to draw the CB to the out then Evans takes off up field.

So Evans had to slow down, JP still got enough on it to get it there. On a play like that I could care less if he hits him in stride.

[Wraith]

it was gutsy, it may have been a good decision- we don't know that for sure, and it was only adequate because the defender was out of position. If the defender was in position, it wouldn't have been adequate at all.

The defender was not in position, so therefore, the throw was adequate. The definition of adequate is "sufficient for a specific requirement." The specific requirement here was to not miss a wide open receiver. This is not up for debate.

[Wraith]

you said that when he threw the ball, he was throwing off his back foot and he got hit in the chest, but still said he put the ball where he should have.

Well if he did it on that play, why didn't he do it on any of the other plays where he was getting hit?

So where again did I say this?

"JP was missing balls all day because the OL was so bad and because he was getting hit all day"

[OpIv37]

What did JP get away with?


oh jesus it's like talking to a little kid.

He got away with it because it was severely blown coverage. If the coverage was anywhere close to what it was supposed to be, the underthrown ball never would have worked. It was a mistake by JP to underthow the ball- fortunately the Packers made a bigger mistake with the blown coverage.

Get it now?

[OpIv37]

The defender was not in position, so therefore, the throw was adequate. The definition of adequate is "sufficient for a specific requirement." The specific requirement here was to not miss a wide open receiver. This is not up for debate.
Great, you figured out how to type "www.dictionary.com" into your browser address bar.

See my previous post. JP still made a mistake by underthrowing the ball. Fortunately for him, the Packers made a bigger mistake with the blown coverage.

[Wraith]

Great, you figured out how to type "www.dictionary.com" into your browser address bar.

See my previous post. JP still made a mistake by underthrowing the ball. Fortunately for him, the Packers made a bigger mistake with the blown coverage.

You just don't get it. How can doing what the situation required be a mistake?

[Wraith]

Great, you figured out how to type "www.dictionary.com" into your browser address bar.

See my previous post. JP still made a mistake by underthrowing the ball. Fortunately for him, the Packers made a bigger mistake with the blown coverage.

Your argument has degenerated into:

A) Lying about what I have said.

B) Pointing out that I put the dictionary definition instead of my paraphrase so you could not nitpick with semantics.

Great.

[OpIv37]

You just don't get it. How can doing what the situation required be a mistake?

you just don't get it. In this particular situation it may have met the definition of adequate, but in the overwhelming majority of situations in which JP will have to throw passes, that type of pass will NOT be adequate. If it was the only underthrown ball he had all day, you'd be able to make a case that I'm just nitpicking. But he showed consistent accuracy problems ALL DAY, and in fact has struggled with accuracy for the entire season so far.

Just because the mistake didn't hurt Losman in this particular instance doesn't mean he shouldn't be criticized. Hell, Leonhard fumbled the punt return but we got 3 extra yards out of it. Does that mean he shouldn't be criticized for fumbling? Please.

[OpIv37]

Your argument has degenerated into:

A) Lying about what I have said.

B) Pointing out that I put the dictionary definition instead of my paraphrase so you could not nitpick with semantics.

Great.

first, I didn't lie about what you had said- I inadvertantly merged what you had said into what other people have said.

second, your argument has evolved into attempts to redefine the problem and avoid the larger issue. You are arguing about the sufficiency of JP's pass for the particular situation- I'm trying to say that this particular play is not proof of any growth or improvent on JP's part and he's receving undue credit for it.

JP made the same mistake on this play that he made all game- it just didn't hurt him in this specific situation because the Packers made a bigger mistake.

[Romes]

oh jesus it's like talking to a little kid.

He got away with it because it was severely blown coverage. If the coverage was anywhere close to what it was supposed to be, the underthrown ball never would have worked. It was a mistake by JP to underthow the ball- fortunately the Packers made a bigger mistake with the blown coverage.

Get it now?

Did you read the rest of the post?

Sure fine, its blown coverage. But why was it blown? Becuase JP pumped and evans ran a good route. Why was it under thrown? because he got hit. Why did he get hit? Cause that route takes time.

I think its the 3rd time I've posted this and it hasn't been responded too with anything other than, "it was a poor pass" and "he got lucky"

[justasportsfan]

it was gutsy, it may have been a good decision- we don't know that for sure, and it was only adequate because the defender was out of position. If the defender was in position, it wouldn't have been adequate at all.

your're *****ing about what didn't happen instead of being satisfied with the result/fact? :coocoo:

[Wraith]

first, I didn't lie about what you had said- I inadvertantly merged what you had said into what other people have said.

second, your argument has evolved into attempts to redefine the problem and avoid the larger issue. You are arguing about the sufficiency of JP's pass for the particular situation- I'm trying to say that this particular play is not proof of any growth or improvent on JP's part and he's receving undue credit for it.

JP made the same mistake on this play that he made all game- it just didn't hurt him in this specific situation because the Packers made a bigger mistake.

I have, throughout this thread, been responding to this:

"Everyone is giving JP so much credit for what was a huge defensive mistake."

I have made no claims about the rest of Losman's play. I am simply saying that, counter to your own argument, Losman made a positive play by recognizing a wide open receiver and getting him the ball despite less than ideal conditions around him. Part of that argument is making sure it is clear that the pass, while underthrown, was adequate and does not subtract from the fact that the rest of Losman's effort on that play was above average.

[OpIv37]

Did you read the rest of the post?

Sure fine, its blown coverage. But why was it blown? Becuase JP pumped and evans ran a good route. Why was it under thrown? because he got hit. Why did he get hit? Cause that route takes time.

I think its the 3rd time I've posted this and it hasn't been responded too with anything other than, "it was a poor pass" and "he got lucky"

First, you're wrong about why the coverage was blown. The CB thought he had deep help but both safeties went to cover the guy in the middle of the field. That had nothing to do with Evans' route- you could argue that it had something to do with the pump fake but the S responsible for Evans' side of the field shouldn't have bit on it. That's a Packers mistake.

Second, what usually happens when a QB underthrows a ball because he got hit? An incompletion or an interception. If that CB had known he didn't have help or if the S wasn't out of position, that play does NOT go for a TD. Again, Packers mistake- nothing JP did.

[justasportsfan]

Everyone's giving JP credit that he doesn't deserve for that play. The result of the play was good, yes- but to say that it shows JP is improving or that it vindicates his performance for the rest of the day is just ignorant. He got away with one- it worked out well for us. That still doesn't mean JP got it right.
what a pathetic post. Who threw the ball? It may have not been a beautiful pass but it was a pass that resulted in a TD. . I think you'd be happier if he took a sack and NO TD just so you can say, "at least he didn't underthrow the ball" :coocoo:
I don't care if he throws a million of those passes as long as it results in TD's. :shakeno:

[ICE74129]

Great, you figured out how to type "www.dictionary.com" into your browser address bar.

See my previous post. JP still made a mistake by underthrowing the ball. Fortunately for him, the Packers made a bigger mistake with the blown coverage.

You are flat out resorting to lies now. JP didn't underthrow the ball the way you want to make it out. He had a guy around his legs and one hit him in the chest as he threw and it was STILL a damn good spiral. You act as if he had all day, no one around him and he underthrew the ball which REALITY and FACTS show that clearly wasn't the case.

It was a touchdown period.

[OpIv37]

I have, throughout this thread, been responding to this:

"Everyone is giving JP so much credit for what was a huge defensive mistake."

I have made no claims about the rest of Losman's play. I am simply saying that, counter to your own argument, Losman made a positive play by recognizing a wide open receiver and getting him the ball despite less than ideal conditions around him. Part of that argument is making sure it is clear that the pass, while underthrown, was adequate and does not subtract from the fact that the rest of Losman's effort on that play was above average.


Losman continues to have accuracy problems and regardless of what else occurred on that play, it's yet one more example of his throws being off the mark. On this one particular play, it happened to be irrelevant. Most of the time, that's not the case.

[ICE74129]

what a pathetic post. Who threw the ball? It may have not been a beautiful pass but it was a pass. I think you'd be happier if he took a sack and NO TD just so you can say, "at least he didn't underthrow the ball" :coocoo:

Justa stop trying to argue with these guys. He is so hell bent on being right he is now flat lying about the situation. Only in his JP and bills hate filled mind did it play out the way he says.

[OpIv37]

You are flat out resorting to lies now. JP didn't underthrow the ball the way you want to make it out. He had a guy around his legs and one hit him in the chest as he threw and it was STILL a damn good spiral. You act as if he had all day, no one around him and he underthrew the ball which REALITY and FACTS show that clearly wasn't the case.

It was a touchdown period.

Was the ball short? Did Evans have to slow down to get it? Well, then it was underthrown.

[ICE74129]

Was the ball short? Did Evans have to slow down to get it? Well, then it was underthrown.

And you are having a breakdown.

[OpIv37]

what a pathetic post. Who threw the ball? It may have not been a beautiful pass but it was a pass that resulted in a TD. . I think you'd be happier if he took a sack and NO TD just so you can say, "at least he didn't underthrow the ball" :coocoo:
I don't care if he throws a million of those passes as long as it results in TD's. :shakeno:

and if that CB had been where he was supposed to be, that ball would have been knocked down or intercepted, and then everyone would be here saying "JP needs to learn when to take a sack"

The fact is JP got away with one because the Packers D was out of position.

[justasportsfan]

Justa stop trying to argue with these guys. He is so hell bent on being right he is now flat lying about the situation. Only in his JP and bills hate filled mind did it play out the way he says.Only Op can find something to ***** about a TD. He's the only here who'd find something to ***** about if we ever won a sb.

He can singlehandedly turn BZ into FH without any effort.

[Iehoshua]

You gotta be really looking for a reason to complain if you're dwelling on the TD pass to Evans. Receivers make adjustments to balls all the time on pass plays, whether it's speeding up or slowing down.

If you want to nitpick, how about Stone-Hands Robert Royal, dropping a pass which hit him in the hands? Losman threw that one very accurately and had nothing to show for it. That play was more of a point to find criticism than one which resulted in the Bills scoring, IMO.
:peace:

[OpIv37]

if you guys want to continue to believe that this was some spectacular play by JP and it shows his growth and development, go right ahead- you're kidding yourselved.

The fact is that it was another inaccurate pass that happened to work out in this particular situation, but it isn't going to work 99% of the time.

[justasportsfan]

and if that CB had been where he was supposed to be, that ball would have been knocked down or intercepted, .
haha! Playing Ms. Cleo again. Whatever. Go play with your crystal ball all you want. I'd rather deal with what happened.

[OpIv37]

You gotta be really looking for a reason to complain if you're dwelling on the TD pass to Evans. Receivers make adjustments to balls all the time on pass plays, whether it's speeding up or slowing down.


like I already said, if it was his only underthrown pass all day, you'd have a point. But it wasn't. He continues to have accuracy problems and this play is just another example of it.

[justasportsfan]

if you guys want to continue to believe that this was some spectacular play by JP and it shows his growth and development, go right ahead- you're kidding yourselved.
.
Who here said it was spectacular? All we care about is the result. You're obviously too dense to realize that.

[OpIv37]

haha! Playing Ms. Cleo again. Whatever. Go play with your crystal ball all you want. I'd rather deal with what happened.

and when JP throws balls like that against Baltimore or Indy or even the Dolphins, you will be dealing with something much different than a TD

[Iehoshua]

if you guys want to continue to believe that this was some spectacular play by JP and it shows his growth and development, go right ahead- you're kidding yourselved.

The fact is that it was another inaccurate pass that happened to work out in this particular situation, but it isn't going to work 99% of the time.
Look at the play Marvin Harrison made yesterday in the back of the end zone to catch the ball, getting his feet in bounds. Is that going to work 99% of the time? I seriously doubt it. Even Marvin himself was pumped about it, which you never see happen.

Point is, don't see anyone here saying JP was spectacular, just that he did what needed to be done, which is all that is required from an NFL QB. Every pass doesn't have to be tight-spiral, in stride, perfect precision, and flawless. Just get it to where our guy can make the play.

[Iehoshua]

and when JP throws balls like that against Baltimore or Indy or even the Dolphins, you will be dealing with something much different than a TD
Perhaps after reading the defense and seeing the situations in those games, he'll choose not to throw it if he can't get enough on it...
:idunno:

[justasportsfan]

and when JP throws balls like that against Baltimore or Indy or even the Dolphins, you will be dealing with something much different than a TD
What's if's :shakeno:I'll deal with it when we cross the bridge. Right now he scored, we won. Nuff said.

[SquishDaFish]

Justa its pointless to argue with OP his mind is full of JP hatred he will always find something to complain about. Couple weeks ago the HATERS were saying only if JP can manage the game and have no Turnovers we can live with him at QB. Now he has a game like that and they still complain. They want a Joe Montana,Elway,Kelly,Marino back there so bad they will continue to hate on a YOUNGSTER trying to make it in the NFL at the most difficult postion to play.

Everyone was hating on TD because of how he was impatient which cause crappy decisions and now that we have someone to be paitent and let the YOUNGSTERS GROW they still complain. I think your right OP and the HATERS would still find something wrong even if JP was MVP and we won the SB. Its so damn pathetic.

[OpIv37]

Justa its pointless to argue with OP his mind is full of JP hatred he will always find something to complain about. Couple weeks ago the HATERS were saying only if JP can manage the game and have no Turnovers we can live with him at QB. Now he has a game like that and they still complain. They want a Joe Montana,Elway,Kelly,Marino back there so bad they will continue to hate on a YOUNGSTER trying to make it in the NFL at the most difficult postion to play.

Everyone was hating on TD because of how he was impatient which cause crappy decisions and now that we have someone to be paitent and let the YOUNGSTERS GROW they still complain. I think your right OP and the HATERS would still find something wrong even if JP was MVP and we won the SB. Its so damn pathetic.

look I've said my piece and I'm done with this argument, but I do need to clarify one thing: I'm not one of the JP haters. I said in preseason that he was looking better. I said that he should get to play this whole season, and I stand by that.

But over the last 4 games, he's looked a lot worse than he did over the first 4 games and I'm really getting concerned with the rate of his development. I'm really hoping the guy "gets it" and becomes our QB of the future, but with each game that seems less and less likely.

Carry on.

[YardRat]

I had a feeling Simpson was going to come up with a pick yesterday. Nice tip by Clements.

I wish he could've taken it all the way.

[The_Philster]

:movie:

[justasportsfan]

Justa its pointless to argue with OP his mind is full of JP hatred he will always find something to complain about. Couple weeks ago the HATERS were saying only if JP can manage the game and have no Turnovers we can live with him at QB. Now he has a game like that and they still complain. They want a Joe Montana,Elway,Kelly,Marino back there so bad they will continue to hate on a YOUNGSTER trying to make it in the NFL at the most difficult postion to play.

Everyone was hating on TD because of how he was impatient which cause crappy decisions and now that we have someone to be paitent and let the YOUNGSTERS GROW they still complain. I think your right OP and the HATERS would still find something wrong even if JP was MVP and we won the SB. Its so damn pathetic.
Op is not a JP hater. He is however one of the biggest bandwagon jumper on BZ.

[OpIv37]

Op is not a JP hater. He is however one of the biggest bandwagon jumper on BZ.

Thanks for recognizing that I'm not a JP hater.

I still don't see how I'm a bandwagon jumper- I always cheer for the team, I criticize them when I think they deserve it, and I compliment them when I think they deserve it.

But we've had that conversation before and it didn't go anywhere so there's no point in having it again.

[justasportsfan]

Thanks for recognizing that I'm not a JP hater.

I still don't see how I'm a bandwagon jumper- I always cheer for the team, I criticize them when I think they deserve it, and I compliment them when I think they deserve it.

But we've had that conversation before and it didn't go anywhere so there's no point in having it again.
you criticize them even before a snap is even made even go as far as bashing them. Not even giving the benefit of a doubt and then channge your mind and then change it again.

Just an observation on my part. You don't have to a gree with it :D.

[raphael120]

A horrible O-line, JP rates the following among NFL starters...

1415 passing yards - 21st - 11 starters ahave thrown for less.
61.3% completion average - 22nd - 10 starters have a lower average.
80.2 passer rating - 18th - 14 starters have a lower rating.
7 touchdowns - 22nd - 10 starters have thrown fewer.
6 interceptions - 11th - 21 starters have thrown more.

He's accomplished all this in spite of...
Only 16 career starts.
3 QB's being sacked more times.
31 QB's having more attempts or more attempts per game.

Can you continue to say he's not an NFL starting QB when there are consistantly 10, 11, 21 other NFL starters behind him in every category?

How about that for a taste of reallity?



here's a cold blast of reality back at ya. at least 7 teams have different starting QB's now than they did at the beginning of the season. Cowboys, KC, Tenn, Arizona, TB, SF, Jacksonville.... I wouldnt get too high on QB stats. There's plenty of starting QBs that havent played all the games.

[raphael120]

everyone has to get it that these lucky long bombs to evans/parrish, are the only ways we get those TD's....until JP can sustain a drive and not always rely on luck and HORRIBLE DB out of position play...there only been a handful of big plays where it was just plain JP's skill at accuracy and not his skill at just lobbin a ball downfield.